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Another clutch question

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OK, searched the boards but not seen anything like what I experience. Could be just the nuances of my particular motor but here goes.

After a bit of town driving my 1st gear seems to slide in as if the clutch is made of heavy soup. Basically feels like it is connecting just gradually all the way through the upswing of the pedal where at other times it bites as it should.

Also getting it into 1st sometimes can require a quick shift into 2nd then back into 1st but I think that may be a linkage adjustment.

1. Is this a sign of some air in the clutch system?

2. Signs of a clutch on the way out (15300 miles on the beast now)

3. Normal operational parameters?

Comments and criticism both equally appreciated.

Edited by Hunt

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Probably a complete fluid change would help (personally I don't think the "red hose syndrome" is as big as it's made out to be and the fluid change that goes with it is part of the solution). The first gear selection issue could be the brass ring, does it crunch when it goes in?

Unfortunately, if the clutch isn't clearing fully it could be the clutch on its way out, but it's certainly worth looking at other (less expensive) options before that.

Andy

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Hey Andy,

Thanks for the info. It had a full A service back in January. It could be the brass ring and it does not crunch going into gear just seems a little tight at times.

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If the brass ring was beyond serviceable state you would be likely to get crunching as you try to engage the gears.

The service schedule doesn't seem to have replace clutch fluid as an item, so an A service (the lightest of the three) wouldn't touch this.

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Andy, the V8 unfortunately only has the "A" and "B" services unlike the 4cyl. "A" being the basic service of replacing oil, filter, etc. and the "B" covering the rest of the fluids. I too occasionally get the stubborn first gear and found a quick shift to 2nd to allow it to actually engage into the 1st gear gate. As for this brass ring that was mentioned, is this something internally found in the transmission, or part of the shift linkage?

In my case, it usually shifts fine into first gear, but on occasion it gives a significant resistance, and I find that happens frequently when shifting into first from the stop light when everyone is in a hurry to rush home. I've not done a shifter adjustment so not sure if that would help with the issue, and as I said, it's not a common occurance, just an occasional thing.

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Must remember to check whether it's 4 cyl or 8 cyl, so that fluid should be good for another 7 months, OK rule that out.

The brass ring is in the gearbox, so not a nice easy check, I have a nasty feeling it's the clutch.....

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If it shifts fine with the engine off then it's probably not the linkage.

Since they probably didn't do the clutch fluid at the "A" service, a good flush/bleed would be the first step and see if that helps. If not then it's hydraulics or clutch as Andy mentioned. The V8's as compared to a 4 cyl. should shift like butter, should not be difficult to get into first gear.

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Thanks guys, so the consensus is trade the car in for an S4s? :(

I'll look at changing the fluids out because as mentioned it is usually during stop and go situations that it happens.

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That's an idea, borrow an S4S, drive it in rush hour traffic through town then go back to your V8, everything will seem fine.

:(

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You're symptoms indicate a leaking master cylinder. I used to have to "pump up" my brakes on my old porsche, which was a similar symptom to what you describe. I would start by replacing the master cylinder if you're fluid levels aren't dropping, and replace you're slave cylinder if the fluid level is dropping.

On a side note.....

As I recall.. a squishy feeling or shuddering is the only way to determine if the clutch needs replacement. I don't fully grasp this concept yet, but there is no official service limit on the discs. Pulling the clutch and checking it's thickness, will therefore not help. By brass ring.. I assume you mean the synchromesh?

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if the friction plate in the clutch assembly is on its rivets, than it is an sign for an 'official service limit' :animier:

new condition thickness is 7mm !

So as the others had advised -to go the easy way first: spot on your master/slave and reservoir for leaks. Test your gearchange arrangement and clutch pedal adjustment as recommended in workshop-book and than look what condition your gearbox oil does have. Is it heavy brass colored (excessive wear on syncromesh), or does it have [condensation]water from less car use in it and so on. that will give good impression of the status on your car and will only cost weekend time -and not money for parts.

Edited by G

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Thanks guys, once I have dealt with the coolant leak on my X5 I will be looking into this. I don't remember any leaks around the master cylinder and will have to pull out the workshop beast for the other info.

Will report back when I get more info guys.

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c'mon -you want to kidding us "..dealt with the coolant leak on my X5.." :cheers: - have thought the Esprit V8 is the only car in the world with coolant leaks :animier:

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Unfortunately Gunter it has had a slow leak for a few weeks but could not find it, so off to the dealer for more warranty work!

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If you're master cylinder is leaking internally (which I suspect) you won't see it.

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we had some hydraulic manometers for the *light-truck* range in the garage on my old workplace. Would be good to have that same thing with an connector that fits onto the slave bleeder nipple. So he could see any pressure drop in the system

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yours is an 2004, so there is no *red-hose* at all . Bud what is with the damn rubber hose thats on top of the LH exhaust pipe , next to the LH-turbo elbow. I still can not imagine why Lotus did that with an shitty piece of rubber... :animier:

If rubber pipes in hydraulic systems get older most of them are gone from inside. They can reduce the stability inside in one hand and on the other hand they can blow out whats into it... . At least that's why some cars, even if the brake lines look good (and not brittle) from outside, can have an internal blockade or otherwise an loss in stability.

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Yeah, I had already discounted the red hose issue with mine. I think bleeding the system may be my best cure along with a leak check and any corrective maintenance to ensure everything is as it should be.

I am picking up the Stainless linkage kit from Dave at the end of the month just in case there is any slop in the system and to prevent future problems!

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*A082Q0725F* -that's the part/assembly I mean. In stock version it is an simple piece of rubber brake hose..

Edited by G

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Hey Gunter, interesting turn this AM. Some of my gear changes were smooth as butter into 1st where most of them were requiring a bit of cajoling to get in. The puzzle deepens.

Edited by Hunt

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As my original piece failed all gear changes gone worst more and more. Simply as every time i stepped onto the clutch pedal the hose was widened before the slave cylinder rod moved forward. In the end the pressure was not transfered to the slave , instead of that the 'paint-killer -liquid' was dropping all over the place. Not an funny thing to clean an fine mist of brake fluid from every part of the rear engine section/body

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