V8 Clutch

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

Ho Ho Ho and all the cheer of the time of year!

I don't have any clutch slip (currently) but there is a fine line right at the top of the pedal between all and nothing, and I cannot remember if the bite point has always been there or further south on depress.

Is this the common bite point and I have just been hypnotised by the drive experience?

Or is this indeed a warning that my hand must venture deep into the wallet?

All say around a grand for Mr Twin-Plate? but can anyone tell known job prices for a new one fitted?

Happy Christmas/ holidays to you all BTW....

[bobbak]

Ho Ho Ho and all the cheer of the time of year!

I don't have any clutch slip (currently) but there is a fine line right at the top of the pedal between all and nothing, and I cannot remember if the bite point has always been there or further south on depress.

Is this the common bite point and I have just been hypnotised by the drive experience?

Or is this indeed a warning that my hand must venture deep into the wallet?

All say around a grand for Mr Twin-Plate? but can anyone tell known job prices for a new one fitted?

Happy Christmas/ holidays to you all BTW.... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am pretty sure that bite point has only a minor point to make as a reference to potential clutch plate failure, a more indicative sign that the clutch is on the way out is the degree of effort needed to depress the pedel. pre failure the pedel is almost impossable to press down, my clutch bites near the top of the pedel travel on the way back up as a giude but the take up is quite sharp. and requires little effort to depress.

regards rob

[neal]

I don't have any clutch slip (currently) but there is a fine line right at the top of the pedal between all and nothing, and I cannot remember if the bite point has always been there or further south on depress.

A hydraulically operated clutch (as per the Esprit) uses the clutch itself to return the pedal to its top position. It doesn't have a return spring like a conventional cable clutch. Consequently it doesn't need adjusting.

But more importantly in your case, any resistance you feel depressing the pedal is acting to release the clutch. The clutch begins to release immediately from the top position of the pedal and takes very little travel in the V8 to release completely.

So what you describe sounds perfectly normal. If it were on its last legs potential symtoms are:

1. Clutch slip (obviously!)

2. Mileage. 20-25k seems average.

3. Crunching gears. A worn clutch can 'drag' the gearbox by not disengaging completely even with the pedal completely depressed.

4. Heavier pedal (as Rob mentioned). As it wears, the angle of the release fork changes, requiring more pressure but less travel to release the clutch. But it's near impossible to judge this unless you have another V8 to compare with.

If the worst comes to the worst, a new clutch is around 820 quid + vat. Fitting is a gearbox out job so reckon on 8 hours. So if you find a specialist charging 45 + vat per hour, it's approx 1400 all in.

[steve duffell]

had new clutch (and gear box fiited) last year, clutch parts and labour was

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

Hi again...

Thanks guys for the answers,

The pedal is very light, a lot more so than other V8's that I test drove.

It changes gear fine and no crunching so I suppose all is well!

When they fail do they just suffer incredable slip or do they fail in other sentational ways?

[extremeesprit]

Now that said, it isnt too difficult to change the clutch yourself. Actually, I find it easier on the esprit than most other cars. The only special tool required is the spline alignment tool. However, you can do without it as well

Johan

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

Now that said, it isnt too difficult to change the clutch yourself. Actually, I find it easier on the esprit than most other cars. The only special tool required is the spline alignment tool. However, you can do without it as well

Johan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im, not too bad on car stuff and getting my hands a bit grubby.

Is there a simple process like drain oil pop drive shafts etc?

[Zhastaph]

Im, not too bad on car stuff and getting my hands a bit grubby.

Is there a simple process like drain oil pop drive shafts etc?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Johan's right. The Esprit is by miles one of the easiest cars to remove the box on. The last time I changed my clutch it took me 1.5 hours to remove the box and clutch including getting all my tools out B) in fact it was all reassemabled again the same day

The service notes have step by step instructions {like 14 steps or sommit} that are dead easy to follow.

If you don't have them post back and I {or someone else} will copy them up word for word.

[Zhastaph]

That said having read your post I don't think your clutch is gone.

The life on the twin plate v8 is clutch is massive, you should get a good 50,000 miles on a car that's not abused. The signs of a worn clutch would be slipping.

======

How long have you had the car? What you may be experiencing may be normal. The v8 doesn't have a long biting point at all. Also because of the nature of the mechanism that disengages the clutch it self adjusts and the biting point is always at the very top of it's travel.

The thing I've had problems with on the twin plate clutch and many other people also is the clutch spline and the clutch not sliding properly up and down on it. This causes the clutch to drag. The most noticeable sympton of a dragging clutch is that it wont engage gears too easily, in particularly reverse and 1st. Too many people think it's normal to stick the car in 1st before engaging reverse else it will crunch, this is sooooo untrue.

======

If the car has suddenly changed then chances are you have a problem, however if it has always been like this and the clutch isn't slipping and it goes straight into all gears with no trouble then I'm sure it's fine.

[joeyoesprit]

Johan's right.  The Esprit is by miles one of the easiest cars to remove the box on.  The last time I changed my clutch it took me 1.5 hours to remove the box and clutch including getting all my tools out B) in fact it was all reassemabled again the same day

The service notes have step by step instructions {like 14 steps or sommit} that are dead easy to follow.

If you don't have them post back and I {or someone else} will copy them up word for word.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At 18500 miles my clutch seems to be working fine. But I'm sure I will have to replace the clutch soon-or-later. I would be interested in seeing the 14 steps so I can get familiar with the process. Can some one send me the 14 steps?

Thanks

JoeyO

2001 V8

[email protected]

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

That said having read your post I don't think your clutch is gone.

The life on the twin plate v8 is clutch is massive, you should get a good 50,000 miles on a car that's not abused.

Edited December 21, 2005 by Chelsea Martyn

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

Johan's right.  The Esprit is by miles one of the easiest cars to remove the box on.  The last time I changed my clutch it took me 1.5 hours to remove the box and clutch including getting all my tools out B) in fact it was all reassemabled again the same day

The service notes have step by step instructions {like 14 steps or sommit} that are dead easy to follow.

If you don't have them post back and I {or someone else} will copy them up word for word.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks again for your kind help on the notes

[superdavelotus]

Martyn, don't woory about it too much. I can get you a good deal at PNM. Pete did one this year for under a grand fitted. Also no need to take the gearbox completely out or driveshafts.

Let me know if the owrst happens and I'll get you sorted.

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

Martyn, don't woory about it too much. I can get you a good deal at PNM. Pete did one this year for under a grand fitted. Also no need to take the gearbox completely out or driveshafts.

Let me know if the owrst happens and I'll get you sorted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheers Dave..

[Zhastaph]

Where does that 20k limit come from?

Beats me imo it's assumed and passed down bit like the 1st then reverse thing. The v8 Esprit has an acknowledged weak gear box, so the vast majority of us are kind to our clutches. I've had my Esprit for over a year and have read all the forums avidly since. I'm yet to see anyone complain about the clutch life on a v8. Most that have had theirs changed for one reason or another at well over 20k miles say that there was little wear shown. I changed mine at about 24k {damaged spline} it showed very little wear at all.

Remember it has double the friction material of an S4S with similar power levels.

=====

I'll go through the service notes for gearbox removal prolly tomorrow morning for urself and Joey. And I'll anicdote anything I'll feel appropriate to make it easier {Like removing and refitting the chassis crossmember with the car on a jack, anyone that's removed the box will know what I mean }

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

Beats me imo it's assumed and passed down bit like the 1st then reverse thing.  The v8 Esprit has an acknowledged weak gear box, so the vast majority of us are kind to our clutches.  I've had my Esprit for over a year and have read all the forums avidly since.  I'm yet to see anyone complain about the clutch life on a v8.  Most that have had theirs changed for one reason or another at well over 20k miles say that there was little wear shown.  I changed mine at about 24k {damaged spline} it showed very little wear at all.

Remember it has double the friction material of an S4S with similar power levels.

=====

I'll go through the service notes for gearbox removal prolly tomorrow morning for urself and Joey.  And I'll anicdote anything I'll feel appropriate to make it easier {Like removing and refitting the chassis crossmember with the car on a jack, anyone that's removed the box will know what I mean }

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once again...

Many thanks

[Zhastaph]

Sorry, bit on the slow side. Everything's a bit hectic with it being christmas an all ....

To remove the box

1. Remove the boot floor
   
   
   
2. Disconnect the 4 lambda sensors. Making a note of where the front and back ones go.
   
   
   
3. Remove the chassis rear crossmember
   
   Make sure you do this with the rear wheels OFF the ground otherwise the bolts will not come out, the same goes for refitting
   
   
   
4. Drain the gearbox oil
   
   
   
5. Remove the silencer
   
   
   
6. Disconnect the reverse light switch
   
   
   
7. Pop the 2 gear change cables off
   
   These are just plastic ball joint things. I use the flat of a spanner under them to prize them up. Be careful not to bust them though
   
   
   
8. Remove the clutch slave cylinder from the flywheel housing and reach in the hole and unhook the clutch release fork. You wont be able to remove it completely only unhook it from it's mounting.
   
   
   
9. Punch out the 2 concentric roll pins that hold the inner drive shaft joint to the box
   
   There's a small pin inside a larger pin. They are quite long so it's a good idea to ensure that you have a good pin punch set a simple normal punch will not suffice
   
   
   
10. Jackup the car, remove the 2 rear wheels. On each side undo the bolt securing the top link to the hub carrier. You should then be able to pull the drive shaft off of the output shaft splines.
    
    For ease of getting round the car I normally reconnect the hub carrier to the top and refit the road wheel so that it can be lowered back on the ground
    
    
    
11. Stick a jack under the transmission then undo the 2 mounting brackets at the rear and all the bolts that connect the flywheel housing to the engine.
    

You should now be able to pull the gearbox back away from the engine.

Refitting the box

Refitting is pretty much the reverse of removal. Just the following things of note;

1. If you are removing the clutch you will need a proper clutch alignement tool {or old input shaft} The v8 Esprit has a twin plate clutch, not only does this have to be central but also the splines on the 2 plates must line up perfectly.
   
   
   
2. The Esprit is very well known for leaking gearbox oil from the oil seal on the drive shaft. There a 2 parts to this seal, a small rubber O ring at the back and the drive shaft seal itself. If you have a leaky box then it is advisable to change the seals at the same time. If you choose to replace these then you will need the Lotus tool for the job as there is no other way to get this in.
   
   
   
3. You should replace the roll pins on the drive shaft joint. I've reused mine a couple of times and they're looking a bit of a state now.
   
   When refitting these you should fit them with the split in the outer pin facing away from the gear box and the split of the inner pin 180 degrees round so that it faces towards the box. The ends should also have a small amount of silicon sealent pushed into them. This is to prevent oil from running down the drive shaft spline and seeping out of the roll pin.
   

That's all I can think of right now. If anyone wants to add or critisise then please do, no offence will be taken

[joeyoesprit]

thanks for the points....

JoeyO

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

Sorry, bit on the slow side.  Everything's a bit hectic with it being christmas an all ....

To remove the box

1. Remove the boot floor
   
   
2. Disconnect the 4 lambda sensors.  Making a note of where the front and back ones go.
   
   
3. Remove the chassis rear crossmember
   
   Make sure you do this with the rear wheels OFF the ground otherwise the bolts will not come out, the same goes for refitting
   
   
4. Drain the gearbox oil
   
   
5. Remove the silencer
   
   
6. Disconnect the reverse light switch
   
   
7. Pop the 2 gear change cables off
   
   These are just plastic ball joint things.  I use the flat of a spanner under them to prize them up.  Be careful not to bust them though
   
   
8. Remove the clutch slave cylinder from the flywheel housing and reach in the hole and unhook the clutch release fork.  You wont be able to remove it completely only unhook it from it's mounting.
   
   
9. Punch out the 2 concentric roll pins that hold the inner drive shaft joint to the box
   
   There's a small pin inside a larger pin.  They are quite long so it's a good idea to ensure that you have a good pin punch set a simple normal punch will not suffice
   
   
10. Jackup the car, remove the 2 rear wheels. On each side undo the bolt securing the top link to the hub carrier.  You should then be able to pull the drive shaft off of the output shaft splines.
    
    For ease of getting round the car I normally reconnect the hub carrier to the top and refit the road wheel so that it can be lowered back on the ground
    
    
11. Stick a jack under the transmission then undo the 2 mounting brackets at the rear and all the bolts that connect the flywheel housing to the engine.
    

You should now be able to pull the gearbox back away from the engine.

Refitting the box

Refitting is pretty much the reverse of removal.  Just the following things of note;

1. If you are removing the clutch you will need a proper clutch alignement tool {or old input shaft} The v8 Esprit has a twin plate clutch, not only does this have to be central but also the splines on the 2 plates must line up perfectly.
   
   
2. The Esprit is very well known for leaking gearbox oil from the oil seal on the drive shaft.  There a 2 parts to this seal, a small rubber O ring at the back and the drive shaft seal itself.  If you have a leaky box then it is advisable to change the seals at the same time.  If you choose to replace these then you will need the Lotus tool for the job as there is no other way to get this in.
   
   
3. You should replace the roll pins on the drive shaft joint.  I've reused mine a couple of times and they're looking a bit of a state now.
   
   When refitting these you should fit them with the split in the outer pin facing away from the gear box and the split of the inner pin 180 degrees round so that it faces towards the box.  The ends should also have a small amount of silicon sealent pushed into them.  This is to prevent oil from running down the drive shaft spline and seeping out of the roll pin.
   

That's all I can think of right now.  If anyone wants to add or critisise then please do, no offence will be taken

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks very much for taking the time to write this reply.