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New Lotus Suspension Kits


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I think this all sounds amazing.

Name me one other manufacturer in history who has developed completely new suspension for almost an entire model range of cars reaching back over 20 years!

The flexibility they offer, allowing us to choose damper and spring combinations (or buy just the bits we want) AND with a twin platform ride height and all for the price of standard suspension replacements, I find it remarkable myself and it will be the first thing I get done to my car next year.

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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...please share why you suspect inefficient project management bearing in mind you have limited, if not no knowledge of what this project involved...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i comment based on the quoted price. what could have run the retail price so high? i sourced a few packaged systems just last year for a superstock car, so i know what the components and tooling cost. granted i'd have to make a lot of testdrives to adjust for peak performance, but that doesn't sound an unpleasant job. i take it from your reply that installation and warranty are not included in the price estimate.

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This suspension is from a world class manufacturer who have made from the drawing board for retrofit suspension for our cars. This is by no means a cheap process and of course Lotus are a business and they aren't in the business of gifting this work so us, they have to cover their costs and turn a profit.

I seem to remember on LEW a set of '02+ Springs and Dampers going for

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Add to that the low volume aspect of it so there are no economies of scale.

I personally am willing to pay a certain premium to know that not only was my suspension developed SPECIFICALLY for my car / model (again I repeat that this must surely be unprecedented) but that it was also done by quite probably the best R&H specialists in the world - which is why manufacturers from all over the world come to Lotus, to get them to consult on or develop suspension packages for their cars.

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

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I think this all sounds amazing.

Name me one other manufacturer in history who has developed completely new suspension for almost an entire model range of cars reaching back over 20 years!

The flexibility they offer, allowing us to choose damper and spring combinations (or buy just the bits we want) AND with a twin platform ride height and all for the price of standard suspension replacements, I find it remarkable myself and it will be the first thing I get done to my car next year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree - the work that Lotus do to keep us all on the road has to be seen first hand to be believed. When they run low on a spare part, its often years since they last ordered it. Sometimes the company that used to make it has gone out of business, other times they are unwilling to make the part in the small volumes needed by Lotus. I had first hand experience of this when a pipe broke on my power assisted steering, Lotus went to the trouble of re-tooling and remanufacturing the part. If they had not done that I would be buggered as no specialist I tried could make the pipe.

Although Lotus still have a legal obligation to supply parts for the V8 and GT3 they do not have to do so for the S4s models and older. Its the same for other discontinued models, they do all they can to keep owners on the road - the guys at Lotus have a passion for their cars and we are lucky that this translates into the fact we can still buy properly designed / tested / engineered spare parts.

If someone wants to fit aftermarket suspension, it might if they are lucky appear to be better than what they have replaced, but this will only be because the suspension they have taken off is knackered. I was lucky enough to have my car used as part of the suspension development program. Before they had the car I thought the handling was pretty good. It now has new spings and dampers - of the original design and has been properly aligned and set up by Lotus. Its like owning a new car - I can not put into words how good it is. They tell me that the new suspension is better still - I dont know what the final price will be, but in terms of the improvement it will make to your car its going to be money well spent.

Lotus have put huge amounts of time and money into developing and testing the new suspension (with different settings for each car) and lets not forget that they are one of the world leaders in suspension development - you are kidding yourself if you think you can slap on some aftermarket suspension and its going to be better than the new Lotus developed suspension.

Alan

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Come one guys !

Your forgetting the self confessed genius Teigan, a master of everything mechanical and electrical must be able to do a much better job than Lotus.

I mean he has the test track, all the various models of cars to put different suspension setups on and test, and Lotus (according to him) are a bunch of engineering monkeys.

Personally I'll go with the Lotus setup.............

After all isn't one of the main reasons we bought of of these cars,

THE WORLD RENOUNED LOTUS HANDLING

Jez

Mean Green S4s

I think therefore I am - Descartes

I'm pink therefore I'm spam - Eric Idle

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lotus did pioneer modern suspension, and they've profited well for their efforts. however, they've been steadily falling behind, resting on their laurels. the elise2 suspension system is fantastic, but it isn't revolutionary. plenty of other cars have knocked me out lately with nonlotus suspensions. paying extra for a lotus suspension today is money spent on a label.

i was a potential customer for the kit. but i'd imagined the price to be about 40% less, even with the "official lotus" factor calculated in. you are welcome to disagree about price; but if you're in a position to recieve a discount, then my assessment seems more valuable.

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I had forgotten Lotus had 'lost it' in terms of their handling expertise... Which is why the new 5 million quid Veyron was called the best car that has ever been and will ever be made and then described as handling like an Elise.

Nope... I see no commendation there... :)

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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I can't agree more with what Robin / Bibs already said, this is a service provided for a car thats 15-20 years old and no longer in production and will fit all the Esprit models - amazing.

I really can't see how you're simply pay for a label - the dampers and spring rates have been selected specifically for that model and tested by Lotus to give them the right factor for the car.....how much would that cost to set up personally ? Most of us on here wouldn't even know what to even look for. I'd rather Lotus frig with my Esprit than any other company tbh, I expect to pay more because they know their stuff 'nuff said.

I also dont get the idea of revolutionary suspension....un-even wishbones are pretty much the norm on modern focused sports cars (such as the Elise) it's the who chassis dynamics, how the car performs in ralation to it which is the art, and what Lotus are renowned for.

Sitting on their laurels ? LOL Every Elise guise from the S1 to the 240R is better....the specification for the S2 was to take the best handling sportscar (the S1 Elise) and make it better.

Go check out some performance parts price listings, I've found 3 quotes from companies who are directly Esprit related and they're all around the

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plenty of other cars have knocked me out lately with nonlotus suspensions. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they've knocked you out, they can't have been very good or safe to drive :)

As for falling behind..........

Have you ever had a look at Lotus engineering, the other manufacturers that they list as consulting for and think of the ones they aren't allowed to list, the innovation with their new chassis designs, the other stuff they're dabbling in that's not automotive related.

I think you need to do some reading.

falling behind indeed !

Jez

Mean Green S4s

I think therefore I am - Descartes

I'm pink therefore I'm spam - Eric Idle

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I think it's awesome that Lotus is taking the time and effort to go back and develope a new suspension for the older Esprits.

I'm just saying that if it's $1700+ USD, I won't be buying it. My choice.

Then I said I'd rather develop my own from Carrera (QA1) for less money, and that way I'd have something that suited me and my use of my Esprit. As I'm sure some are aware, all street cars are a compromise and not perfect for any one individual. Again, my choice.

For someone to generalize and say that only Lotus knows what they're doing, and that I can't possibly know how to improve upon my Esprit... Well... nobody knows me better than myself, including how I like my cars to drive. Personally, I think Esprits are too soft for my tastes, keep in mind that Colorado has some of the worst roads in the US.

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

 

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Ohhh hes got you lot going (again) :P

I realised his lordship knew less than nothing 500 posts ago :(:(

Funny though I didnt think my old heap handled bad for a 22yr.old car :)

Might buy the kit so I can start start mixing it up with the Penguins go faster H team :(:)

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Edited by WayneB
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Ohhh hes got you lot going (again)  :P

I realised his lordship knew less than nothing 500 posts ago :(  :(

Funny though I didnt think my old heap handled bad for a 22yr.old car :)

Might buy the kit so I can start  start mixing it up with the Penguins go faster H team  :(  :)

penguin.gif

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm with you Wayne.

I just can't help biting when "his lordship" starts.

And Travis nobody's saying you or anybody else won't do a bang up job on your Esprit, but with the number of variants of Esprit your solution won't suit everyone and the fact that Lotus have taken the time to supply us ALL with setups that'll do our cars justice can only be praised.

And I suspect that if you do decide to do something for your car the amount of trial and testing you'll need to do to get a comparable set up will far out weigh the "extra" cost that the factory is charging, but maybe this is what you enjoy doing, personally I'd rather get something I know is as right as it can be and spend the time enjoying the car.

I use mine as a daily driver and so doing trials on my suspension won't do, if I can get the gear, get it on, get it set up, and then drive it I'm happy. :(

Jez

Mean Green S4s

I think therefore I am - Descartes

I'm pink therefore I'm spam - Eric Idle

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Reading this with great interest.

Question to those in-the-know...

Any idea as to whether there will be a significant handling improvement, especially from a track driving perspective, for my '01 Esprit with 40,000 miles on it?

Thanks in advance.

Stay well,

Paul

'01 Esprit - Intercooled, Chipped & Quaifed

'07 Hummer H3 - 315's & Adventure Pkg

pyodice@sbhcs.com

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I fully appreciate running your own setups - I was about to do the exact same around summer time when my originals leaked all their fluid and I was riding on springs only, I changed my mind when the product I bought to replace them was not correct for the car. I was talking to Lotus when they said they had been aware of the issue and tried a lot of 3rd party stuff that didn't live upto the name.

...but I agree, thats in their eyes and it's your car so you're right, it's totally your choice.

As far as the suspension being to soft I tend to agree, I prefer the Elise which is a lot harder but then again, its a different car, different weight and different chassis ...who's to say it's not 'soft' for good a reason ? Which is my point, the people likely to know the answer are.....Lotus.

If you can set up bound / rebound settings, bump stops, ride heights, spring rates and so forth on your tod then fill yer boots - I'd do the same given time just becuase I like engineering and general tinkering about. No-ones digging anyone for doing that (infact I wish I had the time/money to myself) but as Jez says it's part and parcel of the additional cost.

facebook = jon.himself@hotmail.co.uk

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in the end we vote with our wallets. i know what will happen, and it's a shame i'm right. if the quoted estimate is correct, they've priced themselves right out of the market. meaning we can wave goodbye to future kits being developed, because response will be a wimper. they should take my advice and include installation and warranty, since this will minimise costly inquiries in the longrun. this also makes the price competitive.

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I agree with F1Karting.

Biggest challeng to Lotus is to their purchasing/finance department to line up a supplier and finagle a cheap price around an expected # of sales.

As well as what you said about Lotus themselves being all over the map throughout the years.

If poeple would just take a breath, relax, and realize that Lotus isn't perfect... Repeat it to yourselves. (I'm not perfect either) Fixing things, changing things about these cars is fun! (for people like me) They aren't valuable, therfore treating them like sacred cows is a waste of brain cells. Sorry, but it's the truth.

Now you must realize that I love Lotus more than nearly anyone I know, and I know alot of Lotus owners (met Clive Chapman too, ask him about the KC BBQ). I may not own as many Lotus cars as some, I may not be able to buy them new (not stupid enough either B) , saved $68,000 that way). But I eat, sleep, breathe, speak, think, and poop Lotus! :)

Just look at the history of the Stevens' Esprits, Lotus has changed nearly every suspension parameter, in an effort to improve upon what they had done in the past.

1)tire sizes 89, SE, X180-R, Sport300, S4, S4s, V8, Sport 350

2)wheel sizes 89, SE, X180-R, Sport300, S4, S4s, V8, Sport 350

3)anti roll bars SE are 17mm, S4 is ??, V8 is 14mm (??), Sport 350 is 17mm

4)springs, too many versions to list

5)shocks, SE, X180-R, Sport 300, S4s, V8, Sport 350

6)bushings, new front lower arm design around the time of the AP brakes

7)wheel weights, unsprung weight, wheel rates all over the map (which one is correct???)

8)ride height, X180-R and Sport 300 are different, "anti dive anti squat geometries compared to an SE"

9)camber adjustment not on SE's, was on X180-R & Sport 300, found later on S4+.

10)alignment settings, toe-in on SE, toe-out on V8 (Lotus admits SE understeered too much, see bigger A/R bar above, same as Sport350 though???)

11) little known fact, X180-R and Sport 300 have trailing front brakes and leading rear brake calipers, all others have trailing rear (longer moment arm)

12)chassis stiffness, X180-R had a full cage, Sport 300 had bracing (SE is a wet noodle compared to the X180-R)

Before anyone complains that I shouldn't have bought a Lotus, since it obviously wasn't what I wanted, B.S. (pre-emptive for this thread, but not historically) The Esprit is exactly what I wanted, it just wasn't as good as the other later models. And I have to tools and desire to follow what they were able to do.

Just as Lotus is updating the 85+ cars with some of their learned experience and current technology.

I'll do it my way for about 1/2 the price, and have a little challenge, and more fun.

They can do it their way. Free market

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

 

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I think that the main problem has been keeping the new ultra low profile tyres square to the road surface.

Limiting suspension travel to minimise geometry changes by going to a stiffer spring.

Lotus tradition had been for a lighter but well damped spring .

On the Esprit a tied in roll cage is a must to stiffen the chassis to get the most out of the new tyres IMO :)

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When I first heard about Lotus' decision to make these kits for the Esprit range, I was surprised because they are not usually known for their aftermarket help and support - particularly on the Esprit.

Facing suspension choices on my own cars, and the only choice being after market adjustables, I had left this to last because it is the one area you can mess with and put your own and others life genuinly at risk on the roads.

It takes almost invisible adjustment to a safe handlig car to turn it into a very unpredictable animal.

I'm very glad to hear the new kits will be arriving soon as Lotus will have done a lot of work to make my life easier when modifying this area of my GT3.

It takes a lot of skill and effort to make a cars handling all things to all conditions. Any one experienced with racing car setup will tell you it is the last and most crucial area of a vehicle that decides whether it is fast or slow, safe or dangerous - and it is by far the most difficult to get right.

I think Lotus have done a great service by doing this and i hope there will be more such upgrades for our cars in future to keep them going.

When you consider what else you can get for

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and it is by far the most difficult to get right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I absolutly agree, chassis dynamics, wheel geometry and shock absorber setups are one of the most complicated things to set up on a car as far as getting them to work together.

Different spring rates over the Esprit range....well when I was trying to get the money back on my dodgy suspension the manufacturers were telling me my GT3 was different to every other Epsirt, I had to ask Lotus themselves to help defend my corner as such and from what I was told the cars never had different springs from the S4 range and that is the simple reason why the GT3 rides 10mm higher than the rest becuase of it's weight loss. The damping rates are the only thing that changed the cars handling.

As for the other earlier models if they're different I'd simply put that down to the fact not only did the chassis get a stiffening excersise in the series 3 but spring rates are not just to do with cornering, they also help / hinder brake and acceleration performance in a straight line, upto the SE turbo the cars were getting faster and faster, more power, more grip, better brakes - if your rears are too stiff you can't squat the weight on the rear wheels and it spins, conversly if the fronts are too stiff you'll find your self understeering everywhere when braking into corners.

But anyways you pay your money and take your choice, I am not critisising anyones decision (infact I quite envy people who wish to take this up on their own)....if you take a look on LEW and click the parts and suppliers and look for suspension kits you wont find many (if any) 3rd party kits in the EU for under

facebook = jon.himself@hotmail.co.uk

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Guest rflowers

Go with Lotus or go on your own.

My opinion (which matters only to me) is that they have probably forgotten more over the years than what most people who play with cars will learn. If it was a simple formula, I think everyone would be doing it and Lotus' rep would be a thing of the past. I believe the strength of their consultancy business shows its still strong. Also, anyone remember seeing a plaque on any other car toting that their suspension was tuned by someone other than Lotus...maybe Porch, Farrtari, or Joe Blows ... I think not.

Howver, if tuning car suspension is your BUSINESS you might have a chance.

With Lotus offering us extended life, performance wise, it would be nice bonus if the factory provided tech information on our cars like how to stiffen chassis, limitations of the car's design, etc., and even what they learned from racing the X180Rs that we might learn from.

I can't believe it would be much value to anyone else as the car, as was mentioned earlier, is 20+ year old technology. The only thing I can think of is that there maybe legal issues.

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I was talking with Geoff at the factory yesterday about the suspension development. I was surprised to hear that they are going to do seperate spring/damper setups for the Sport300 & the Sport350. Pretty impressive, goin though the entire development procedure twice for a worldwide total of about 100 cars!

Feels good to know that Brain & Geoff really care about the the esprit, and I suspect are doing alot to make these and other parts available.

They are also planning to get OZ to manufacture a new batch of Sport350 wheels to replaces stocks which have run out.

Will

Edited by williamives
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I was surprised to hear that they are going to do seperate

spring/damper setups for the Sport300 &  the Sport350....

They are also planning to get OZ to manufacture a new batch

of Sport350 wheels to replaces stocks which have run out...

So, how many 4cyl owners will want the sport 300 suspension instead?

:lol:

And i predict them magnesios find their way onto several non sport 350

Esprits too, god knows i would LOVE them on mine, i think EVERY wheel

EVER fitted to ANY Esprit, does not look as good as these, and parked

next to Rob C's white 350 (as i have several times), they look so good

on a white car!!!!

B)

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