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Quick update sorry no pics yet.

Decided to leave the engine and concentrate on the rest of the car, wiring, bodywork etc. Today i have removed the rear lights and managed to get the rear bumper off.

Can you purchase the rear bumper brackets to save me trying to remove the rest of the bolts as i had drilled the heads off pretty much all of them!!

Also need to carry out some repairs on the battery tray as it has come away one side and cracked the other.

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Okay so managed to get out on the car for a little while this evening.

Removed the passenger fuel tank to find that it has two holes in that you could put footballs through!! So new tanks will be added to the list! Tomorrow i will pull the car out and give the garage a clean and try to find more space for all the bits i take off!!!

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You are making great progress, Wayne!

Are you planning to lift the shell? Maybe you don't have any great need to.

Simon

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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Simon

Im hoping that i wont have to lift the shell but if the mounts are shot i will replace them. They appear good so far from what i have seen. This is a much bigger project than my 911 that i did as this is a completely differnt sort of thing. Really enjoying it as well. Every bit that comes off im one step closer to getting her on the road. :)

Next job i will take the other fuel tank out. Does anyone know if there should be some rubber covers for the holes below the fuel tank. There is one in each side but not the big whole in the floor. Also thinking that when i replace the fuel link pipe between the tanks i will make a stainless one with rubber joiners. Anyone know if this is not advisable?

Also i may as well say what my plans are for the engine. I think i have pretty much made up my mind that the engine will be going and i will be fitting a BMW V8 from a 5 series. Have looked at a few and need to start looking at measurements befor its set in stone but i think thats the way im going. Will run it on the citreon box to save to many complications at that end with brakes etc. Full rebuild for the box will of course be in order as well.

Opinions are welcome

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Hi Wayne,

Making good progress so far. I am not sure your Citreon box will take the torque of the V8 lump. You might find yourself going through gearboxes?

Won't the Citreon box make it difficult for any tollerances i.e I don't think you will be able to push box back if V8 engine is slightly too long?

I think on Hilly's car, his driveshafts are angled a little because his gearbox is further back. Could be getting my wires crossed, this isn't my field of expertise.

David Walters

Edited by superdavelotus
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I think there should be large rubber grommets pluging the holes under the tanks. Just like the one in the boot floor. Mine only has one, so I guess they are easily lost. Quite important though from a water ingress/rust point of view.

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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Dave i see what your saying. Once i have some measurments i will do some more decision making. Dont plan on ragging the car once built. Having the V8 is more for show, sound and above all reliability!

Been back in the garage this afternoon so a few more shots.

Bothe tanks are out now and managed to get the front bumper off as well. Which i have to say is well rotten so i will be having to make a new back plate for it out of alloy or something. Will see when i get to that stage.

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May even be back out there tonight. The good thing at this stage is it doesnt cost anything to strip the car. Its just the huge list thats building that there is a big gulp at!!

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Wayne you are making superb progress - putting my rebuild efforts to shame. Blimey those fuel tanks!!! - will be checking mine tomorrow night.

My 2p worth, I try to keep my Lotus cars as original spec as possible - even to point of rebuilding a totalled dry sump engine.

Keep posting, gripping stuff :)

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Thanks Simon. Ye the tanks are terrible. Try to work on it as much as possible. Evenings and when my daughter goes off to sleep i try and get some done as well. Trying to keep the garage clean as well is a nightmare especially when so much crap keeps dropping off of it when you undo something!

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Great stuff Wayne - you are making me work at a faster pace on my resto!! - there's always something else crops up- might as well do this now its stripped down!! - good news on my engine is the errant metal bits when it imploded didn't reach the pumps and bearings, bad news is that the head was total scrap!!

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Hi, about the Citroen box. Check another member here, benslotus79, V8 >400 BHP with Citroenbox. No problem.

Very strong gearbox when thoughtfull driven.

cheers,

Harry Martens

www.ds-vitesse.com

with kind regarDS,

Harry Martens

www.ds-vitesse.com

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Blimey those tanks are bad, worst I have seen posted........

I had a feeling you would change plans with your car and contemplate fitting a different engine :)

It is a lot of work trust me...........

If that was your route then I have to say Nick's blue car would probably been a better bet, still no going back now.

I never looked at BMW V8 when doing the Mutant as the Audi engine made much more sense as it bolts straight onto a transaxle, but the first thing I would look at is engine length.

The BMW V8s are designed for front engine/rear drive applications and so length is not normally a problem for them, but in an Esprit it is.

If you intend to keep the SM gearbox, then if the engine is much longer than the Lotus 912 it is going to replace then you will have a problem with other drive shaft angle as mentioned above or you will need to chop the chassis about to fit. Remember you are going to have added length due to the required adaptor plate.

The drive shaft angle on mine is because the drive train in too far forward (the Audi V8 is MUCH shorter than the 912, hence had room up front to spare and I went a bit too far) and I'll be fixing that by moving it back a bit.

As for gearbox strength, I think the fragility of the Citroen SM unit is much exaggerated, there have been next to no posts on here about exploding gearboxes, admittedly this is on standard cars.

If the boxes were weak then we would of had plently of posts about it here on LEF by now.

Upping the torque to V8 levels puts you in slightly unknown territory, so be gentle with the clutch if you do the swap.

I swapped mine out as the Audi box bolts straight on and the TDi ratios suit a V8 better, however the swap generated a lot of extra work.

Hilly

1981 S3 4.2 V8 6 speed (The Mutant)

Mutant V8 Conversion Thread

Knowledge is power .................... apparently.

 

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hi, i had an "e Bay moment" and ended up with an esprit yesterday!!! not quite as bad as yours, but close!, not been started for about 6-8 years, i had it running in an hour. the exhaust manifold was cracked and blowing and i want to change belt. engine ready to come out after spending today on it, cant budge the o/s drive shaft bolts though.headlamps and motors missing, clutch seized.

Where can i get a manifold from?

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hi, i had an "e Bay moment" and ended up with an esprit yesterday!!! not quite as bad as yours, but close!, not been started for about 6-8 years, i had it running in an hour. the exhaust manifold was cracked and blowing and i want to change belt. engine ready to come out after spending today on it, cant budge the o/s drive shaft bolts though.headlamps and motors missing, clutch seized.

Where can i get a manifold from?

Hi Mick

Where are you based. Have you any pictures yet to show us? Start a thread so you can keep us posted on all the updates. If the car has sat you could be in for some seriouse work but prob not as much as me!! I have seen a manifold on ebay for

Edited by wayneb911
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Hilly

Thanks for the advice. I would like to keep the citreon box to save added compliactions. So you say the audi engine bolts straight on.

So all the extra work like alternator moving sump cutting etc are you saying thats not neccessary if i use the citreon box as the engine will sit further back? Ideally i would like to fit with minimal complications.

Can i also use the standard Audi engine mangement and loom etc?

The Audi 2wd gearboxes (forget about Quattro boxes) bolt straight on with no adaptor plate needed, you do need to get a flywheel as all 4.2 A8s come with auto gearboxes (in the UK anyway) but they are available.

All of the above will still need doing with the Audi engine irrespective of what gearbox you use as it is a chassis width restriction.

The SM box will cause any engine to sit further forward (due to drive shaft output flange position) so will probably mean the above mods are more likely.

Whatever engine you could go for would mean a fair bit of work, engine swaps always are.

It will always be miles easier to just rebuild the Lotus engine.

The loom can be re-used (I would actually recommend that) but the the ECU I am afraid not unless you get it modified and that is expensive :)

The engine ECU needs the dash clocks for the specific car as the immobiliser is in there and won't start if missing.

It also talks to the auto gearbox ECU, without that it goes into limp home mode, not much use either.

DON'T underestimate the cost and complexity of engine management required for any of these late generation engines.

It is not like the RV8 as you can't just bung on a dizzy and carb and it will fire up.

Nicks car was a little out my budget at the time and as you said as well about the engine its an old V8 so i think i would have ended up changing it for a newer more powerfull one like the Audi or BMW. So whats my best option here engine wise as im sure you did your research as well.

Taking into consideration using my standard gearbox.

Best choice engine wise is to keep the lotus 912, especially if you want to keep the SM gearbox as it will be CONSIDERABLY less work and be on the road much quicker.

If you are settled on swapping the engine then look at it as at least a 2 year project by the time you have done the hardware and resto work.

The Audi with full engine/gearbox route is proven and kinda documented, but is a fair bit of work as you need to work on rear brakes, gear linkage etc.

The BMW route will need an adaptor plate as there isn't a bolt on solution, so could be a bit easier as you have the option of retaining the SM box and hence inboard brakes.

Now whether that is a good idea or not is open to debate as the early S3's brakes are only just up to the job and doubling the power with a V8 will make that worse.

If you don't keep the SM box then you may as well go for Audi as you will then be back to the required rear brake and gear linkage mods.

Not sure about engine size (my guess is it will be more difficult than the Audi due to length), not seen the sump layout so can't comment on that and the ECU may also be a pain.

Another option of course is the Lexus v8, but this is defo longer then the Audi so pretty similar to the BMW with the work involved.

Hilly

1981 S3 4.2 V8 6 speed (The Mutant)

Mutant V8 Conversion Thread

Knowledge is power .................... apparently.

 

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Thanks Hilly. Think i have a lot to consider. I have to ay im a novice to engine conversions so would be a steep learning curve. Waying up other possibilities of more power from the 912 what mods could i do to increase it. Also has anyone attempted to do a turbo conversion on one or could it be converted using turbo bits from another esprit? I take it compression would need tobe changed etc?

When i had the 911 2.7 there was a few guys who converted there engines to turbo which done a faily good job with not to much complication and it was nice that it was bespoke as well compared to just putting a 930 lump in.

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To retrofit to a 'standard' G turbo install would be prohibitively expensive (unless you could source everything as a job lot).

Yes, you would need lower compression pistons. You would also need the expensive & rare exhaust manifold, adaptor and wastegate. You would also need turbo (sealed) carburettors and uprated exhaust valves. Different distributor curve, plus many other parts.

Conversely, you go for the later injected turbo set up, but then you will still have the same mechanical issues and also need an ECU etc. etc.

In the quest for extra power, I would go for a tuned NA approach - Ported head, Exhaust and induction improvements. I believe 200+ bhp is readily available.

cheers Steve

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Tuning a NA car up to 220bhp is relatively simple, and for those who have done it I believe its' a very good upgrade. It's the target figure I had in mind when I had my S2. A simple mod would be to source a HC but NA engine from a late model S3 or an Excel, and drop that in. Paul Godfrey has recently fitted one of these into his white S1 with good results. In standard tune the NA HC engine pushes 180bhp compared to 160bhp for the low compression engine, so it's a pretty good simple transplant anyway, even without mods for more power.

Regards

Mat

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Okay so making a few enquiries today on the spiggot bearing issue. May end up going for some mods on the engine i have and then maybe look at a conversion latter. Could get an engine and get it to how i want then do the conversion instead.

Oh well out in the garage again last night. Few things done

Wiring all cleaned and back to being able to see what colour the wires are!

Finished re painting the inside of the boot area back to satin black finish. Looks like new now. Wiring will be replaced in a better position and neater than original. Will also extend rear light looms so they run up the rear supports and out of sight. All wiring will be covered in conduit to make a better finish. Was the original loom covered in insulation tape?

Also found a few wires taped up in the look so will be picturing them to find out what they are for.

Well a bit more rubbing down on the chassis and then i can get on with the silver POR 15 finish.

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Mick

The tanks are rusted from outside. Mine are prob a good example of what happens when a car is left foe so many years unused and un covered! Would strongly recommend checking all your fuel system

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