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Accident damage- is the car mullered now!? - Page 3 - Suspension/Brakes/Wheels/Hubs/Steering/Geo - The Lotus Forums #ForTheOwners Jump to content


Accident damage- is the car mullered now!?


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You're right- we don't really need a specialist for some of the things i've listed above, afterall i've been down to see the car again today and have been underneath and we've found the pipe that's leaking & the reason WHY too (it's been chaffing/rubbing on the bodywork and has rubbed through!

Also- yes the aircon i could get re-charged down at my local Kwikfit if i wanted too- but surely the garage were taking the car too won't charge much more to simply test & regass the aircon system???

I'll also agree that we could possibly tackle the window guide seal too, but i'm not sure id want to tackle taking off the doorcard and getting the glass out without a workshop manual or somet to guide me if i'm honest!

As for the heater- no a lot of the time we don't "need" it as such, but it's ruddy annoying to know you haven't got it on the occasion you want it- if it's there i want it to work!

Tbh my biggest concern is getting a clean bill of health on the chassis and geometry- if that checks out as ok (& it isn't hugely expensive to check it out & rectify any faults!), then i can't see the rest running up a big bill particularly!!!!

On a side note though we found something that has confused me somewhat! The pipe going to the clutch slave cyl seems to be a mish-mash jobbie and tbh i'm now thinking that it might be the upgraded lotus pipe that IS fitted! Basically the hydraulic pipe appears to be- part braided hose- part brake- part red plastic hose, Does this sound like the Lotus factory upgraded pipe to you fellas??? to be clear- it's a braided & Brake pipe style hose off the back of the slave cyl, which then seems to go into just brake pipe as it runs underneath the car, but then if you look at the master cylinder- a red plastic hose comes off of that n disappears down through a grommet- presumably down to where it is linked into the brake pipe style hose under the car!??? It's certainly NOT a red plastic hose all the way from the master cylinder to the slave as i thought it might be!!!!

Asfor the occasionally crunchy 1st gear my cousin says he's read something about swapping the gear oil from the Lotus recommended stuff to something else, and that this apprently makes a significant difference to the gearbox and how it feels!?, Does this sound right becuase i was under the impression that the Esprit gearboxes had to be run on a very specific kind of oil!??????? Obviously anything that would help free the box up and maybe help with gearchanges & gear selection is a positive thing as it's certainly NOT the nicest box in the world to use is it!

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...try down the easy way and just look into the parts list that shows what's behind the door card (removal of door panell is easy -see LEW *door sleeve repair* for pictures.. ) -the parts illustration is free visible on the US site Lotus-garage ( door card , glassing )

never had an Esprit with 'red plastic' pipe ...so don't know whats on yours -on my ('build 98, registered early '99) clutch 'master' it is the later version from factory , just a brake pipe and the master gets his fluid 'bypassed' from the brake reservour instead of an single reservour directly on the clutch master-cylinder.. . clutch pipe comparision [item 33 is for example the black thick rubber hose that gets brittle on the later cars, because of its location just above the LH exhaust pipe..)

gearbox-oil can still be sourced over here in Germany ...as 75/90 TAFx is available in the 'back rows' of some car-shops (think the Castrol company has finaly replaced it with an other product of similar specification in the last year..) -so you need to find an online shop (not only the usual Lotus parts dealers over here in Germany, as the price of the product itself is something cheaper in reality on the market..) -just try an online search for a car-shop who sells car stuff from oils, srews , nuts & bolds and up to specified body parts of all brands.. . unclassified example of a shop

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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Hi Matt, have you been to the 'paid member discounts' section of the forum where you can download the parts manual for your car? Once you have done that, you can pump the part numbers into some of the sites which sell parts or use that number in conversation with the vendors (SJ, PNM etc)... then you'll be able to build up a more accurate feel for what the parts elements of any rectification work is likely to cost. Also you'll be able to see how easy/difficult things are to get at, which may influence your decision as to whether or not you wish to tackle a job yourself.

As far as taking door cards off and removing windows, winders and seals etc is concerned it is not too difficult and you'll be able to find a picture laden post in the stephens section (I'll try and post a link to it) 'cos sparky and I have done it fairly recently (well, several times actually) and it's not too difficult. I must admit we've not done it on a V8, but the parts manual view doesn't seem to be too different to the earlier cars.

Found it..... Link to the window winder saga and other bits and bobs.

(Edited by wookie to add the link)

Edited by wookie

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

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In practice, there is!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Been a while since i added anything to this, but Today I got the Call from Peter Smiths to say the car is ready for collection so come Friday i should be pootling back home in the Esprit which should hopefully be driving better than ever!

As a quick list of what's been done (that i can remember) there is:-

1) It's had 4 brand new Adjustable shocks and springs (came from Hethel, not sure on brand names, but supposed to be VERY good quality)

2) 2 new front tyres (think there Dunlop sport max)

3) Bottom header tank hose replaced

4) new clutch

5) New window seal

6) New header tank cap

7) Aircon regassed

8) New Front Poly bushes and new front anti rollbar

9) New front ball joints

10) New alloy coolant pipe (the one that runs along the top of the G/box apparently was corroded/had worn through and was weeping)

11) Cambelt service

12) K&N panel filters fitted

13) 2nd hand refurbished O.Z Saturns fitted all round (to replace damaged AWI wheels)

14) Full Steering Geo/chassis check + re-alignment

15) Brakes have been stripped, discs skimmed and everything freed up/lubed and checked over

10) & lastly a new Fob battery :thumbdown:!!!

That's everything that i can recall anyway- off the top of my head- might be a wee bit more but i think i have it all!

When they checked the car out it was found that 3 of the 4 wheels were damaged, the rear camber was out aswell as the alignment (between front & rear wheels apparently), But having spoken to Rob there several times now- that's all been taken care of and the Geo/Alignment etc is now spot on, and hopefully the ride and handling will be better than ever now what with the new polyurethane bushes and shocks and springs etc- hopefully it should drive even better than when it was brand-fire new!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully now with what has been done above (which to me is a pretty comprehensive overhaul)- then the car should hopefully now return a good few years of relatively (apart from the obligatory servicing/running costs) trouble free and as cheap as can be expected motoring! (well i certainly hope so anyway!)

Must admit that up to now i haven't really been able to see the real appeal of the Esprit, as i never personally thought it was that good if i'm honest!, Hopefully now with all the above having been done i should be able to enjoy what the Esprit is really all about, and with a little bit of luck she'll be ferrying me and my Cousin down to Goodwood next year for the F.O.S too!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers for all your help fellas but hopefully now this whole chapter can be layed to rest and all the faults will have been addressed and the car will be as sweet as a nut!

Cheers matt!

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Must admit that up to now i haven't really been able to see the real appeal of the Esprit, as i never personally thought it was that good if i'm honest!

They called it a supercar and made it for 28 years for a bit of a laugh really! :)

Enjoy your car, get ready for the smiles :)

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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Hope you're right- especially after all the money it's had ploughed into it recently to put it right!

One thing i really wish was different was the handbrake lever placement!

It's just in a completley Stupid spot!

Makes hill starts fun whilst also making you look a prat!

Why on earth did they put it there anyway?, Even TVR managed to put the lever in the normal spot- and there mad!!!

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You read the manual on how it works?

Lift it up without the button pressed to engage it, then fold it back down so it's out of your way. Lift it back up with the button pressed to disengage it. Hill starts, use fast feet and you'll find them easy once you've got the hang of the clutch. .

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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have you ever tried to do a 'handbrake-turn' or an 'drift' with this handbrake layout :lol: ...really, you're not the first who noticed this :)

Anyway , I hope that you learn how to manage and handle the mechanic works on the Esprit for your own. This will save you serious money .... sooner or later you will have some annoying moments,even with an 'reworked car' as yours -those can be a real pain if you have to consultate an dealer/garage for all those silly things :)

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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Err- I have figured out how the handbrake works guys cheers! LOL!

The only gripe i have with it is the stupid location of it!

WHY they couldn't have put it in a cut out in the normal spot is beyond me!?!

As for the clutch- then i'm not sure WHAT to expect yet tbh, I have a feeling that it was a single plater and it's been converted to twin plate now (or it was a knacked twin plate as it had apparently been sticking on the input shaft splines which is WHY it crunched every time you wanted to select 1st!) , & if what i have been told is right they can be quite aggressive in there uptake,engagement- but i'll find that out all out come Friday i guess!

As for learning to work on the Esprit more- Well tbh i hope it doesn't need it for a while yet! ,Afterall it's only just had a good over-haul! if this car is gonna be lots of trouble and constantly in need of something else doing- then it'll be getting sold for something more reliable!!!

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this additional 'cut out' (as for the gear lever.) would weaken the frame even more -mention that there is nothing in the side of your car -it is all in the middle what is metal ! The handbrake-lever is placed (scewed) onto the outside of the main body -this on the other hand was then covered by an glued/riveted addition 'outer sill' .. . The inside profile (the thing that is covered with carped, next to your seat..) is only an laminated and 'rivited in' GRP structure. You will find the adjustement port for the handbrake there too..

**

As for the clutch: the twinplate (mention it is not 'dampened' !) can feel rough or some call it 'judder' if there is some slight misengaging ...on 'ordinary' clutches the 'dampening effects' of the radial springs & plate system in the center of the clutch plates smooth that out. The AP twinplate as it is in the Lotus V8 does not have this 'compfort feature' -but that is the race feel, just see it this way ... sadly the friction material can handle a lot of power, but if you 'jump' it the small clutch-shaft & teeth profile is not up for the job. So handle it with care on the first month ..you would only stall like Clarkson had done it in the video (in the dark blue one..)

Edited by Günter

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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Gunter, you may have answered a question I WAS gonna ask regarding the clutch, But i'll ask it any way for clarity's sake (my own)

Been and picked the car up today, and it's deffo sorted now in pretty much every respect Peter smiths have done a fantastic job! The BIGGEST single shock for me though was just HOW MUCH lighter the clutch pedal is now compared to how it was before- the clutch pedal itself now doesn't really require any more effort to depress than my Civic Type R- BUT:- There IS a definite "judder" to the clutch when you 1st engage it now- Only really noticeable in 1st gear when pulling away from standstill, but it does definitely feel a bit "rough" when you engage it!

Do i assume this is a "normal" trait of this clutch- one that you just have to "learn to live with"???, It is quite an aggressive clutch in it's bite- you don't really seem to be able to "slip" it like you can on other cars- it seems much more "switch like" if you know what i mean- Either on or off!

If this is just how this clutch is- then i guess i'll just learn to live with it in time, but will it get a wee bit better once it's been used a bit more and has bedded in some- or will it aways be a bit "juddery" and aggressive??????????

Apart from that the car drives better than ever! The new springs and dampers are Bilstein coilovers with Eibach springs btw and they feel pretty damned good too- maybe a tad hard harsh on really crappy surface roads (not sure if the shocks are adjustable for there damping settings or not) but the car really does just feel "planted" now and (with the MUCH lighter cltuch pedal) is a much more enjoyable drive!

Over-all i'm happy it has to be said, I would like to think that that cltuch may just settle down a little bit after it's been used a bit more, but if not i guess i'll just learn to live with it as is! I just want to be 100% sure that the above traits of the clutch are what it IS supposed to be like (my cousin who has also driven the car today seems to think that the Juddering of the clutch is down to an alignment issue, But going on what Gunter has put - to me it seems like it's just a very aggressive clutch mechanism and the juddering is simply a trait of this setup!) - IS this the case?????????

Sorry if i'm being a pain, But the car is now soooo much better that i'd hate it to have to go back because we think there may be an issue with the clutch "juddering"- only to be told that "this is how it is i'm affraid" If it is - so be it!!!!!!

What do you say guys!???????

Edited by blue harbour
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None of the cars left the production line with a juddering clutch. You're right in your observation that it has an on/off feel to the pedal. Learning to modulate this to allow a touch more slippage will come with time and practice and could possibly eliminate a lot of the juddering you're experiencing.

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None of the cars left the production line with a juddering clutch. You're right in your observation that it has an on/off feel to the pedal. Learning to modulate this to allow a touch more slippage will come with time and practice and could possibly eliminate a lot of the juddering you're experiencing.

So- do i assume then from your answer that there is a problem with the clutch setup which is causing the judder, Or is it more possibly a case of needing to be slow'ish and deliberate and having to have quite a lot of revs on when launching and also slipping the clutch too!???????

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So then there isn't anything wrong with the clutch- Just that were not used to it yet!?

Yes/No????

Also anyone know where there's a link to that clip of Clarkson driving that early Blue Esprit where he stalls it (not the later clip of the later spec car!)??????

Edited by blue harbour
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The V8 as S4 have as much in common as apples and pears, there will be no use in comparing them at all.

I recently drove 3,000 miles over 3 months in a Sport350 and noticed no judder than I remember when using the clutch correctly. If you're slipping or riding the clutch, you'll notice judder as Gunter explained as there isn't much in the way of dampening, it's a twin plate racing clutch, not a unit from a Ford Fiesta. High performance has it's compromises, wait 'til you corner on lock at low speed when you're parking, you'll have a heart attack! Part and parcel of a supercar.

Ultimately, if you're not happy, take it back to Peter Smiths.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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There's no need to have a huge amount of revs on the dial to pull away. They can be manoeuvered around on tickover. However, the on/off characteristics of the clutch pedal can take some getting used to.

There are many reasons for judder from the drivetrain when setting off from rest. These can be anything from user error right up to worn cluch plates or sticky splines or worn gearbox/engine mounts etc. Or a combination of all of those. As Pete suggests, it may just be where the car has been dormant for a while causing problems with the clutch not engaging smoothly.

Drive it some more. Take it to work, drive it to the supermarket, get stuck in some traffic jams. The car will enjoy being used and you'll get more used to it's foibles. If after a while you're still not happy, take it to an expert for their opinion. It's all very well us giving advice over the internet, but something such as this will require a 'bums on seats' approach for a correct diagnosis.

Have I suggested driving it some more? :)

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Matt (blue harbour) -I was comming from a cable driven *Opel Kadett 1.4L* clutch system ..to the Lotus twinplate, so there was a definitife 'hard step' in comparision. It was *blood sweat & tears* not to stall and be ashamed ,as I drove the car on the driveway of the dealership. It just needs a good feel for the point on which the car really starts to move away -there is enough torque (up to 400Nm!) in the engine, just learn to use it in the privacy of your own driveway . Have not really documented or seriously noticed it -but I would say there is no higher rpm than 1200rpm if my car starts to move notable... and you can engage fully, as soon as you accellerate with WOT there is no judde as you're not longer on the clutch :) -it's a Sports-GT after all :)

Positive effect -you can run the car in pretty much every gear without to step on the 'loud pedal' as there is allways the right amount of torque available ..what means you can run it with idle-speed in a 'limited speed' zone and be happy on the cruize

the video is there -*youtube clarkson Esprit*

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

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Hmm ok - Cheers for the replies fellas i'll drive the car some more n see what's what & maybe just learn to live with it!

The judder is only an issue when 1st engaging the clutch anyway- once your on the move (as long as your not aggressive with the clutch) then subsequent engaments of the clutch don't really give rise to any judder as obviously your moving, it's just that initial 1st enagagent from a standing start in 1st gear that is a bit rough, but if this is just how it is then so be it!

As for driving the car then it WILL be going back n forth to work etc and will be getting used Daily (hopefully) for a good portion of the year so hopefully it (& me) will get better with time and i'll become more acustomed to it!

I know what you mean about the torque too- it'll pootle along at 30-/35mph under it's own steam, and then still pull cleanly in 5th with a wee press of the loud pedal!

Not too keen on taking it to the supermarket though- it's been bashed there before (although i have been today but i stayed with the car to keep an eye on it!)

It's definitely sitting a bit lower though since they put the coilovers on, before it went to Peter smiths it never gorund the splitter going over speed humps, but today it did catch a little bit over one, so they must have set the ride height a tad lower on the coilies! managed to get my Ipod headunit fitted today too so i won't need to carry around countless CD's anymore! :)

Oh- btw WOT????????????

Edited by blue harbour
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  • 1 month later...

Dunno whether you guys will be interested but this wee link shows My V8, just after my cousin had finished giving the car a full detail!

If any of you guys live in and around the Derbyshire area i can highly recommend his services (he's a professional detailer) as my car now looks Mint!!!!!

As for the car itself it has been spot-on since getting it back From Peter Smiths & having given it time, and it really does seem like a different car to drive now- it's just a much more pleasurable experience and i really do look forward to taking her out- even if it's only to work n back! :thumbsup:

Edited by blue harbour
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  • 4 weeks later...

Quick wee request fellas, but could any of you post up or link me a piccie or diagram of where the reversing lamp switch is on the G/box please!

Only noticed it the other day when i went to collect the Esprit from my cousin who's been detailing it for me- but niether of the reversing lights are working, and tbh i'm hoping it's just that someone forgot to reconnect the switch back up when they bolted the box back in as they have worked before - i'm sure, but there inop now and i haven't got a clue where the switch is located/wiring will be to see if it's just a case of needing reconnecting!

Tried a quick google search earlier when i was in-work ( i'm using the Esprit atm whilst my CTR is having a slight bit o paintwork done), but that was useless as i turned up nothing relevant in the time i had!

Cheers Matt!

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