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Accident damage- is the car mullered now!? - Suspension/Brakes/Wheels/Hubs/Steering/Geo - The Lotus Forums #ForTheOwners Jump to content


Accident damage- is the car mullered now!?


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I'll not bother posting the whole story of what happened up again, but if you're interested in the cut-down version i have put it on this thread:-

http://www.lotusespritforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=23160

Basically though i guess what i'm asking IS- has my old man's spin n subsequent bounce up the kirb ballsed his car up in a really bad (maybe irrepairable) way!??

I've been getting round to this since i found the forum n joined for his sakes the other day (great forum btw!), but basically after the wee accident my old man had a few months ago (no-one else involved or owt like that if your wondering) in his V8, the car has two/three issues which are all probably related, and were not sure HOW serious they are!

Problem one is that the steering was seemingly knocked out of alignment (going on the steering wheel suddenly ending up off centre!)

Problem two is that there's sometimes a fairly loud/audible "crack" sound coming from somewhere on the car- either when maneuvering at low speeds to park- or sometimes just when driving (it did it once on me going over a speed hump), but mostly it's happened at low speeds when maneuvering!

Problem three is that apparently now the steering has gone "heavy" (although the power steering still seems to be working)- but wheel seems more difficult to turn, the steering doesn't seem to want to "self centre" when exiting corners etc, and the car feels like it's wanting to over-steer at quite low speeds on left handers!

I do now know that one of the front wheels (think it was the right one) whacked the kirb in that spin they had (which would explain why the front alignment is out in some way!

I have also been told that the NSR shocker has a slight "weep" on it- which might also seem to suggest that that is knacked aswell!

I think i've got it all, but as you'll probably be thinking- that little lot sounds quite serious- and you'll probably also be thinking the same as me in that "it's time for a specialist to look at the car"

I know my old man would appreciate any opinions n advise you can fella can give, He's trying to run his esprit on as tight a budget as poss (which is probably not a good thing!)

I'm guessing that the majority opinion will be to stop peeing about n get the car to a specialist (which he should have done months ago tbh!)

Cheers again- Matt!:wine:

Edited by blue harbour
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Definitely worth getting the car up on ramps to have a look at it, mainly to make sure something isn't about to break or fall off. Most likely at least one suspension component has been damaged enough to warrant replacement, hopefully that's all because suspension parts just unbolt. If there's any chassis damage things are looking bleak for the car.

Whereabouts in country is the car? Knowing this will help which specialist to suggest.

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Were in Derbyshire (Chesterfield) to be be precise!

I know my old man has had it up in the air looking for anything obvious, but my guess is it really needs a trained and careful eye who knows these cars and who will have a better idea of where & what to look for!

it does seem to have gotten worse just of late i'm affraid, because it's only recently that he mentioned the steering issues or the definite sensation that the car keeps feeling like it's going to break into oversteer!!!! The again it was layed away in the garage for months & has only recently been brought back out!!

Wonder if the steering is any result of him whacking the column trying to get the wheel off!????

Edited by blue harbour
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get it on some axle stands and start looking, see if there is any noticable difference between the two sides and look for play in the suspension / steering

may not be a s bad as you fear, sounds like something bent good luck

It's Oogies turn to boogie

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After reading the below:

steering was seemingly knocked out of alignment...

the steering wheel suddenly ending up off centre...

loud/audible "crack" sound coming from somewhere on the car...

steering has gone heavy...

wheel seems more difficult to turn...

steering doesn't seem to want to self centre...

the car feels like it's wanting to over-steer...

the NSR shocker has a slight "weep" on it...

He's trying to run his esprit on as tight a budget as poss (which is probably not a good thing!)

:wine:

...i think it would be wrong if not irresponsible for at least one person not to ask you or your dad:

Why are you still driving the car????

You don't know whats exactly is broken, bent, cracked, twisted or ready to snap. If the chassis is bent

then no human eye (unless Steve Austin works at the garage) can do the job of the chassis jig and the

correct geometry equipment. But with the list you give, and my current state of mortality, i would not

turn a wheel in it until i got it looked at, looked at by someone that knows Esprits inside out that is.

I'm not trying to scare you (honest!!!!) but with the list you give and nobody saying 'don't drive it', i just

feel i've covered myself by doing so rather than skipping on to the next thread thinking 'blimey'.

:hrhr:

You can't run an Esprit on a shoestring, i've had ten years of Esprits and tens and tens of thousands of

pounds spent, the reason i've got an Elise now is i'd 'just' about had enough of the commitment (and it is

a commitment) of the long term running costs. Running an Esprit on such a tight budget that you are driving

it around busted and not handling well, is actually worse and more expensive than not owning one.

I'd take a step back and read carefully with fresh eyes the list of handling faults you give on a 170mph car.

I know in the back of your mind, as with anyone, there will be the worry that the shop will say 'it's a write off',

thats not nice on any car, but worse on something like an Esprit that you have chucked money into that you will

never get back, but thats the worse case, and it will be for a good reason. As Graham says, chances are the busted

stuff turns out to be things that unbolt. OR, if you just drive it round long enough, the knacked part might well indicate

itself by failing and breaking off at speed, making it easy to identify once the car grinds to a halt on it's belly.

Here's hoping it a cheap fix mate, take care in the meantime.

;)

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I second Paul, don't drive the thing you could end up dead, or kill someone else! For all you know the wheels could drop off Or you come to a corner and the car just go's straight on.

Get it looked at by a mechanic, and find out what is wrong. Then you can decide what to do, anything can be fixed if you have the money to do it. But first you need to find out what is wrong.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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Cheers for the replies fellas and i understand completely what your saying, all i can really say in the old fellas defence is that since he pranged the car it hasn't been far at all- infact the greatest distance it's covered since was to take it to an MOT station to get it looked at (& they couldn't see anything!)- other than that it's probably only been out n about for megga short blurts round the block really - basically to get it out of the garage n off the path when we've wanted access to the garage for the other cars! It's probably not even covered 20 miles since they got it home after pranging it, and most of that was the trip to n from the MOT station (he knows the fella that runs it)!!!!!

Don't worry- neither me or the old fella are out n about in it tearing around as if nothings wrong!, he knows it's not right & is reluctant to move the car at all- so it's basically not getting used! it's just that when he does/ Has had to move it he's commented on how things seem to have degraded since he last drove it- if you get my meaning!

As for getting it sorted- then i heard mutterings the other day about possibly taking the car back to Hethel & getting them to look at it (it's been suggested that they'll be as cheap as anyone to do the work), and with them having built the cars- they'll have the greatest knowledge!

Whether it does actually end up going there is uncertain at this moment, But that seemed like quite a popular option the other day!

Edited by blue harbour
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Hows it going with this Matt, have you spoke with the factory or a specialist?

Even if it's a saving up / earning the funds first thing (which was the story of my

esprit budget!), it might be worth getting it on a chassis jig. This will not of course

tell you it's safe to drive, or what parts are damaged, but it would give you peace

of mind that the frame is at least ok and should not be too expensive to get checked.

:)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Nothing to report mate!

The car is just sat on the driveway in front of the garage with a battery optimizer thingy plugged in 24/7, and hasn't moved in ages now!

There's still talk of the car going back to Hethel n letting them do it (Car being transported down there via a recovery wagon effort), but When that will happen- God knows!????

I don't think anything will be done regarding the car untill there is sufficient funds in-place to be able to allow things to go forward!

I will post up if anything does happen, and let you know what was what, but it could well be ages before anything gets done!

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  • 7 months later...

Well i think i did say i'd update this thread as n when i had any more info, & in a way I am keeping that word too, but it is with very unexpected news and a new question!

Basically i'd like some advice from you guys as to what you think my dad's V8 would be worth (if owt) if it had to be sold as spares or repair!????

I've been browsing Pistonheads and it seems like good undamaged V8's are going anywhere between £15k - £20K, But i'm affraid there's a strong possibility that my dad's Esprit might not get checked out or fixed as the funds won't/might not be available!

Basically (the bit i've been getting round too) My Dad passed away early saturday morning, and it now means that the car is left in a state of limbo as He never got round to getting the Esprit shipped off anywhere to get it checked out to find what is what wrong with it (it was going to be his next project in the coming months!), and now to be perfectly honest i simply cannot see there being the free funds to allow us (me n my mum) to be able to ship the car off to be checked out- let alone for it to be fixed, so the harsh (possible) reality we might have to face is that the Esprit may have be sold on for SFA- just to get it gone!

Obviously if this CAN be avoided we will, but at this moment in-time such expenditure is seemingly idiotic as we simply do not know yet just how bad things are going to be financially!

So my question to you guys would be as above really- How much could we realistically ask for the car as is (it has possible suspension/steering damage from a previous accident, and also the speedo and heater are inop too, but otherwise the car is sound as far as we know!)

Obviously this is an absolute "last resort" measure, and i suspect that the answer may be "not much", but i/we simply have NO idea where we stand in terms of what the car "might" be worth!

Advice please fellas if you can!

Cheers Matt!

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Sorry to hear about your Dad,

Chris

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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Comiserations regarding your father passing away.

I cannot offer any idea of value, but it should be reasonable, do not assume that it will be very low value or even decent car less dealer price for fixing it, it should be somewhere between that and decent car less DIY fix (parts).

Andy

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  • 3 weeks later...

Wee update!

The Esprit has recently been dragged out of the garage for the 1st time in probably over a year now and has been given a run on private land to see "whats what" in terms of "feel" etc, and tbh the car seemed largely fine! Ok it was only driven at relatively low speeds (apart from a quick squirt down a straight section), But just with the short bursts the car has been given it seems like things might not be as bad as feared!

There was no "odd" handling characteristics that seemed to show up (non of the loose, feeling like it was going to oversteer business that my dad reported), and whilst the steering did feel a tad "heavier" than normal this might just be down to slightly under inflated tyres or something like that!

As for the steering and how it was sticking etc (possibly why my dad said it felt like it was wrong if the steering wasn't 100% and was slightly sticking!!), then we removed the cowl that goes behind the wheel and over the indicator/wiper stalks etc (the steering wheel was fouling this to the point it was physically "twisting" it round to a certain degree!), and the "sticking" seemed to be cured, upon further investigation it looks like my dad had knocked the steering column down enough (whilst trying to get the steering wheel off!- Don't ask!!!!) that it was too low and obviously would foul the cowl and cause the wheel to rub the cowl and to a certain degree "stick" against it! This issue though has now been sorted and the steering wheel assy now clears the cowl with about a 3mm gap (which would seem to be about right) we also found a circlip on the column which had become dislodged and upon re-aligning the column the cut out for the circlip came into view and the circlip was put back inplace which only seemed to re-affirm that our actions were "right".

As for the intermittent "crack" sound- then as yet we don't know WHAT that might be and all the while we were tootling around in the car (low speed maneuvers etc which is where the noise was heard the most) we NEVER heard anything, Anyway the car has now been taken down to my cousins (he sorted the steering column and it fouling on the cowl) for further investigation (were hoping to able to atleast sort the speedo issue out n maybe the heater and window seal etc), and then when funds allow the car will be taken for an alignment/ride height check etc, and then will be shipped off to be properly inspected and tested, and hopefully be given a clean bill of health, Any out-standing work completed/rectified etc, but at the moment things are looking a lot more positive than when i last posted!- Especially as the car behaved so well with seemingly NO odd traits or wayward characteristics, and we've been able to sort one issue out so easily, Obviously we won't be sure or satisfied until the car gets a complete bill of health from bona fide specialists and shes sorted, but if this 1st wee snippet is anything to go by- things are looking up!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll update on any further progress as n when, but hopefully were one step closer to being able to keep,run & enjoy the Esprit for a while longer yet!

Guess i need to find out/get a better idea now of what the running costs for this car will be like (if i take it over it WILL be getting used)!!!!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Next pieces of the puzzle have come together!

Esprit has been up for an MOT now and checked out all ok, I asked them to have really thorough look over the car for anything and apart from the rear wheels that are damaged and a poss slight water leak there was nothing to report! I have now taken over the Insurance on the Esprit (which i didn't think was bad- coming out at £660 fully comp 0 ncb, and i'm 32!!), and from 1st of July it will be FULLY road legal as that's when the road tax will kick in!

Steering and speedo issues are no longer issues- there all done and sorted, next piece of the puzzle we need to put in-place is getting the car to a specialist to be properly checked over (full alignment check etc), and maybe sort the few remaining wee issues too!), but tbh i'll now be surprised if the car doesn't check out as A-ok and I can start running & using the car on a regular basis! It certainly seems as though my dad might have been exaggerating things a little as to how bad the car was, but obviously until the car is fully checked over we'll not be sure or take anything for granted! I am definitely MORE optimistic though than when i 1st started posting on here about the problems we were having!

Next few questions are maybe a bit- preemptive if you like but:-

1) What is it going to be like if i try & source some new/2nd hand rear wheels for the car (there the AWI 6 spokes if i've looked right!)

2) What kinda money would i be looking at (if the original wheels are ridiculously expensive, or impossible to source), to buy a set of the O.Z Nova wheels that the later V8's came with????, (i'm assuming that fitments will be the same for the two styles of wheel in terms of stud pattern etc!)

3) Is it worth getting one of those Braided clutch hydraulic lines as when the car gets warm it does seem more recalcitrant when it comes to getting gears (1st especially, which can "crunch" if you try n rush it!)

4) Is the later/more recently developed bilstein kit likely to help improve, or make worse the ride quality (we know the NSR shock has a slight weep and the shocks n springs 13yrs old now!!- even though they've only done 27K miles!)

Obviously I'm not gonna spend ANY cash on anything the car doesn't REALLY need until we have had it checked out & hopefully got a clean bill of health for it!, But if she does check out there are several things i'd like to do to her!

Cheers Matt!

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1) What is it going to be like if i try & source some new/2nd hand rear wheels for the car (there the AWI 6 spokes if i've looked right!)

What about these? Brand new and from a reputable source!

2) What kinda money would i be looking at (if the original wheels are ridiculously expensive, or impossible to source), to buy a set of the O.Z Nova wheels that the later V8's came with????, (i'm assuming that fitments will be the same for the two styles of wheel in terms of stud pattern etc!)

You can't get them, £5k won't secure you a set of Nova's nowadays.

3) Is it worth getting one of those Braided clutch hydraulic lines as when the car gets warm it does seem more recalcitrant when it comes to getting gears (1st especially, which can "crunch" if you try n rush it!)

Definitely. A must for all Esprits.

4) Is the later/more recently developed bilstein kit likely to help improve, or make worse the ride quality (we know the NSR shock has a slight weep and the shocks n springs 13yrs old now!!- even though they've only done 27K miles!)

Are you really asking that? Read your question and you'll be able to work that out for yourself!

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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4) Is the later/more recently developed bilstein kit likely to help improve, or make worse the ride quality (we know the NSR shock has a slight weep and the shocks n springs 13yrs old now!!- even though they've only done 27K miles!)

Are you really asking that? Read your question and you'll be able to work that out for yourself!

Yes- i am really asking that!

i know it might seem a bit daft, but all i really wanna know is whether the newer bilstein kit (shocks and springs) will give a firmer/harsher ride than the o.e stuff that's on now (yes i know age & condition will play a part!), but if we already know that atleast one shocker has a slight weap- then it might pay to replace the lot with new stuff, but i wouldn't really want to make the ride any firmer than it is now (are they harder/stiffer/lower springs!?) I'd actually prefer it of the bilstein kit gave a slightly more supple ride than the o.e kit!!!

As for the quick reply then thankyou very much, and i appologise if the questions seem rather stupid, but i'm new to Esprits so i know next to nothing about them or what's available/can be done!

Bibs,

As for the wheels I am certainly interested, but i'm just not sure whether i'd want to commit the money before I can get a clean bill of health for the car!

Do they come up often at that sort of money!??????

Also any idea on shipping costs (if i was to buy them!?) I'm in derbyshire btw!

Edited by blue harbour
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The new suspension, in my opinion, makes my car handle better than it did before, much better. I'd say it's on a par with an Elise/Exige, it's very clever stuff. Being conically sprung, the ride is comfy on the bumpy stuff but stiffens up when you're pressing on. A solid and worthwhile investment. The rears dampers however are on back order, you'll have to wait a few weeks for them. If you want the suspension, let me know and if you upgrade your forum account I'll be able to get you 10% off. Good here innit :dizzy:

I've a few sets of those wheels for sale, don't panic just yet but don't leave it too long as they're going at the rate of a set a week at the moment. They are the last V8 wheels Lotus have, after that their cupboards will be bare. I'm guessing shipping would be £50-60, rough guess but sounds about right.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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Excellent mate, That's all i needed to know & more besides regarding the suspension kit- thankyou again!

As for the wheels/sorting the car out- then anything i buy/do is coming out of the money from my late fathers estate, and being as the car was my mum n dads before i took over owning it (sort of), anything i do i want to run by my mother tbh, as i still consider the car to be hers more than mine really, so i'll keep this in-mind and consult her as soon as she comes back in, as she's really the one who'll be paying for them if i do buy them!

I'll let you know as soon as i can either way!

How would you want payment though whilst i'm asking (bank transfer!???)

Obviously if i do go for a set we'll sort it out properly there n then!

Cheers Matt!

Edited by blue harbour
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We'll run them through our online shop, you can pay by card and you'll get a proper receipt for the history file then :dizzy:

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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