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Windows - If it's broken, fix it or don't use it, but don't do this...


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My drivers window has never had the auto up/down function since I got the car. It never worked for the PO either and he did tell me this when I bought the car. The windows have never auto closed using the key in the door lock either. The passenger door does have the auto up/down function.

Before you say it, yes I've tried the reprogramming thing.

So, being the inquisitive type, in I went.

I have seen this before when I removed the door panel to fix the driver side door strap and remake some earths. In my ignorance I thought this piece of aluminium may have been a Lotus performance part. :)

The first photo.

100_2826.jpg

So off with the inner door access covers

100_2827.jpg

Then undo the 9 bolts which held in the performance part to expose this

100_2828.jpg

The performance parts can be seen here. :(

100_2829.jpg

So then I thought to myself that the fibreglass cloth should not be there. So, pull at that with just my hands and it peeled off the door moulding. No prep had been done prior to what we will call 'the repair'. That left me with this...

100_2830.jpg

and this pile of what I will now call rubbish.

100_2831.jpg

As you can see in the photo of the door once everything has been removed, there is a hole in one of the lower bolt holes that has been caused by the window motor not switching off when it encounters resistance i.e. fully open or fully closed, until the operating switch is released. The only thing I can think of is that the electronics of the drive have a fault that does not 'learn' or allows the auto-stop on resistance function. This has then deformed the door numerous times until the door structure has failed. Someone has then thought to repair the door and then beef it up with the aluminium plate. So now I have to try and find another circuit board for the drive motor as I believe that is the problem.

I will also have to work out how to best repair the damage to the door structure.

But basically, this is a good advert for if you find something on your car with a problem, fix it, don't ignore it. I now have this legacy to repair.

Does anyone have any clues as to the availability of the window motor logic circuit and any clues on how to adequately repair the door without taking the door off the car.

Thanks,

Michael.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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If the auto stop function is working again, reglassing the broken part and drilling two mounting holes should be no big thing, right?

Ciao,

JB

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Jimmybondi,

The auto up/down doesn't work on this side. I am going to check for the simple things like a broken wire as sometimes it is the simple things.

Jonathon,

Unless whoever did this did it themsleves, I reckon it would have been cheaper to buy another window unit. The unit is stamped 'brose' and these guys still exist so I will shoot off an email in the faint hope.

Michael.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

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Hi everyone,

I have a question for the electrically minded of you. On sheet 16 (wiring diagrams) in my service manual, there is a graphic of the window voltage regulator. It shows several wires going to it and one that is set up as a jumper between two pins. My question is this.

When I look at this representation, do I read it as if I was looking down on the relay socket or as if I was looking at the bottom of the relay?

The reason I ask is if I look down on the socket, the wiring is reversed to the manual but is correct if I look at the bottom of the relay.

What is correct? I'm mechanical not really electrical. Electricity is white man magic. :)

Thanks for any help,

Michael.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Another question for the S4 owners and later models. Does anyone have a car that the windows wind up when you turn the key to the lock position and hold it there? The wiring diagrams show that they should, but I can not get it to work even if I ground the wire that goes to the keylock micro switch myself. Kimbers said his didn't wind up so now I'm asking everyone.

Thanks.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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Hi,

I didn't know the window went up automatically when locking the car, would this apply to the GT3 as it's basically the same door setup? I suppose I havent noticed it because I lock my car using a remote key fob, only ever used the key when the battery was flat once.

I will have to go and check now to see if it works, I do know that you can open the windows with out any key in the car, they are always live power to them.

As for the door repair, ye ha cowboy! Would have been better to repair it with just P40 than using matting, would have been a better repair, but it would have needed to be cleaned back first, you can't stick matting to paint. I've had a similar problem when I brought my old Rover SDi V8, one of the back windows didn't work, when I investigated I found a piece of wood holding the window up, the motor drive was gone! Sorted after a trip to the breakers yard.

Having repaired my door this year and given them a total strip I'm not surprised later owners find problems like this, my drivers window frame had been repaired, parts rewelded on and a large hole drilled in the end of the door that sholdn't have been there. It's all sorted now and the doors are a lot better, perhaps the best they have been since the car was first made especially with my extra sound deadening, something I found Lotus don't use enough of, I suppose weight being the issue.

Owen

Frame04.jpg

Edited by OwenGT3
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Thanks Derek. Unfortunately that confirms that there is something wrong with something to do with my windows. I have yet to check what is happening at the window voltage regulator and whether that may be the problem. The other query is whether because this was an asian delivered car versus an Oz delivered car, whether there was any changes made. Trouble is, I have no idea where to get those answers from. :getmecoat:

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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The window roll up feature is independent from the window voltage module. All that happens when you hold the door key is that a commoned wire from each motor unit gets grounded. I have grounded this wire at the LH door harness connector (near the A pillar) and achieved the same result.

Are you grounding the correct microswitch?

Edited by sailorbob
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I have actually grounded the wire after separating the connector and picking the wire up direct from the motor loom. Still doesn't work. Testing the switch with a meter shows it closing when the key is turned to the lock position. I am talking to Andy and Colin at Lotus now to see if they can shed any light.

Just thought I would post what the door looks like now after some crack chasing and grinding to get back to solid material to begin a repair. I cut up and bent myself a backing plate out of the aforementioned performance parts to put behind the chasm so everything doesn't fall through when I begin glassing it up. Can't be stuffed trying to work out how to get the A pillar interior trim off to get the door off. Can get to the bottom hinge nut easy enough in the cabin but not sure if I want to go down that path just yet.

Owen,

I think I read in the manual that the key fob can wind the windows up if you hold the button, but don't quote me.

The door now. Probably still need to grind a bit more paint away so that the repair bonds onto some solid material. Really don't want to do this twice if I can help it.

100_2835.jpg

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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That's been my thought for awhile now Derek. However, not being able to find any definitive information as to what the motor part numbers are makes it hard to confirm either way. I can't even find information as to what should be in there.

Michael

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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Derek,

The motors are the 6 pin connector ones so should be auto up/down once programmed, obstruction sensing and auto close on turning the key. The drivers door has none of these and the passenger door only has one - auto up/down.

As the motors work, I am wondering if the window logic modules in the drives have been changed for a different item without the functionality of the originals. I have also discovered that the 2A fuse that should be supplying the window voltage regulator has actually been replaced with a 10A fuse. So then I started wondering whether the faulty motor has overloaded the voltage regulator which maybe should have blown the fuse but didn't and has maybe then caused a fault in the voltage regulator? But following the diagram the only thing the voltage regulator does is to feed the switches and the bypass for the ICE button.

Bloody electrickery.

Oh well. Just came up with a blank from Lotus regarding drive motor part numbers and the pin voltages etc from the window voltage regulator. They have supplied me with the part number for a new RH unit so that may be the only way out.

So if anyone out there that owns an '95 S4 just happens to have their door liner off sometime soon, would they be able to look at the regulator part numbers and the drive motor logic module part number, it would be appreciated. The part number for the logic module is underneath where the connector plugs in. Should be visible with a mirror unless you have a very little head and can get it in the access hole. :lol:

Failing all of that, I will also be going to Holden here as the motor looks physically identical to a Calibra drive motor though the regulator looked different in the pic I found.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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Opinions please.

I contacted the Lotus dealer here in good ol' WA to enquire about the price of a new RHS regulator. The quote has come back as $610 plus 10% GST. I wrote back and asked if that was for the entire unit or just the drive motor and then also whether that was both LHS and RHS?!?

The part number comes up as the being used in the Vauxhall Senator and Vauxhall Carlton and also an Opel model, so I will be doing some research in the UK if Holden here can't help me.

$610 #@#$$%^^%$#@ be buggered. Four tyres only cost me $800 fitted and balanced.

(sings) Oh I do love to live down in the colonies... :)

Edited by ramjet

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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Pilko,

No window regulators on your link mate. I did a search and came up with about 150GBP each, Which is about $270 each which admittedly is still cheaper than over here.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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I expected more of a man of your caliber young Pilko!!

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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Holden is Aus couldn't help me. However, there is a vauxhall parts store on the web that has the exact same part numbers as what I have here for very cheap.

Can anyone on here that has/had an 88~94 Lotus Carlton please tell me if their windows learnt the up/down thing, have obstruction sensing and auto close on the key lock? If they do, I have found both the regulators complete with motors for about 80 GBP.

Even with shipping I reckon it would beat every price I have found.

Thanks,

Michael

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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Thanks Pilko. :wallbash:

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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I have another question if anyone can help. On the circuit diagrams, there is a green wire which runs from a module that has to do with the central locking that runs to the window voltage regulator.

Can anyone on here tell me what that does?

Thanks,

Michael.

Forget it guys. Worked it out. Ignition supply.

I'm getting better at working out wiring diagrams. :devil:

Edited by ramjet

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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