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Dash Upgrades


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I was bored so looking through the online catlogues of various suppliers.

Found the Dash2 from race-technology that looks pretty good - notice quite a lot of race converted elises' use this.

http://www.race-technology.com/dash2_2_31.html

Dash2.jpg

This looks good - you can even hook up the data loggers via the OBD Can bus port so no major rewiring required.

Looked a bit more and found the Stack steering wheel.

http://www.stackltd.com/steeringdash.html

product_box_steeringwheel.png

Now I'm thinking you'd need the Multi function interface to hook into the CAN bus.

Has anybody linked anything into the CAN Bus using Stack product? Just wondering how easy it would be.

Thanks,

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Update:

I'm looking seriously at the Stack unit as it should be compatible with the momo quick release boss. The steering wheel has it's own quick release connector so all is good there.

I have been talking to Stack and a couple technical guys who are looking into the mounting side of it. In theory everything is ok to pull all the informatio required for the unit off the CAN bus except that info that isn't available to the ECU itself (oil temp for example).

It's looking like that there would need to be a MFR (multi function recorder) black box somewhere that connects to the CAN bus and the steering wheel. As an added bonus it also has many traditional sensor inputs so can be exapanded as required. There's some nice extras in that the unit has a Compact Flash based memory and can record the sensor data and is WiFi compatible to download and configure.

Ok - it's not going to be cheap. In fact it could end up being silly money but am still giving it a go with Stack to see whats involved.

If I here any update will post.

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  • 2 months later...

Been a while but not been idle. In fact I think have everything sorted and will prob order soon.

Here's my plan thus far.

Oil pressure and temp - additional oil filter sandwich plate. The guys over on lotus talk say a second plate works fine with no issues. This makes it quite easy to fit and apparently the filter can be removed without draining the oil.

coolant temp - undecided as yet. Can "tee" the engine coolant temp sensor on the engine head but this makes for a heavy sensors that's prone to failure with high vibration. The other option is to place an inline adapter into the radiator feeds. Am going to try to find a place engine side of the thermostat to make sure get engine coolant temps not ones that don't really mean much.

fuel pressure - will leave for now but will probably get an inline adpater fitted when I change the fuel tank.

engine rpm - got a inductive pickup that fits over one of the coil packs ecu control wires. No cutting just clips and screws into place for a 12v pulsed signal.

wheel speed - get a sensor with the unit but needs it's own bracket fabricated. One option I am looking at is the toyota transmission speed sensor. the socket is there on the gearbox just filled with a plug. Apparently the sensor should drop in and generate 4 pulses per rev which is perfect. The elise R taps the amplified ABS signal from the ABS control box to the ecu. Although this should be fine (but would require some soldering with resistors to boost the signal) I really would prefer not to mess with the ABS electronics.

Am hoping to have a spare fuse socket linked to the switched circuit in the fuse boxes and run a wire from there.

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Been thinking about the Oil Filter Sandwich plate myself - the sensor feeds could go straight into the DL/1 to give me oil temp and pressure readouts and warnings.

I have been having some problems with the coolant temp feed from the ECU - this seems to give random numbers on the readout which the Race Technology guys haven't yet been able to diagnose.

I am guessing that you have decided to not bother trying to get data out of the ECU interface.

Saving up for a sequential gearbox
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Yeah - gave up with the ECU interface. At the end of the day needed a fair bit of info.

The only way I think it could have been done is using a "canverter" which converts the Can bus data into 1 or more +5/+12v puls signals.

However this only works (if possible) for rpm and mph not a linear analogue signal like coolant temp.

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GavinP

I have a DL/1 and Dash 3 (the same set-up you run I believe). I have been trying to display water temp on the dash 3 but the results seem to be a random number (although it is zero when the temp is below 70). The data is logged correctly on the DL/1, just not displayed correctly on the Dash 3(yes I have checked the display units). I have raised a call with Race Technology about 3 weeks ago now and sent them my Dash 3 configuration file but have had no response yet.

Do you display temp on your dash 3 at all?

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just had a dig about in the engine bay - just trying to work out which would be the best coolant line to tap.

Need to get the right one as otherwise get weird number depending on the thermostat opening.

My gut feel is the large main outlet pipe - it's accessible and relatively short length. It's alos very possible to fit a sealf sealing adapter (something like http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/Pro...=exc&cc=gbp). although I've no direct experience of these so may go with a traditional "Tee" instead (http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/Pro...p;pcode=GLOHA25)

The advantage of this location is that it's basically next to the engine's own coolant temp sensor so should get consistent results.

To be on the safe side I'm going to get a spare coolant pipe and work on that and keep the original :-)

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  • 4 months later...
GavinP

I have a DL/1 and Dash 3 (the same set-up you run I believe). I have been trying to display water temp on the dash 3 but the results seem to be a random number (although it is zero when the temp is below 70). The data is logged correctly on the DL/1, just not displayed correctly on the Dash 3(yes I have checked the display units). I have raised a call with Race Technology about 3 weeks ago now and sent them my Dash 3 configuration file but have had no response yet.

Do you display temp on your dash 3 at all?

Del, did you ever sort this?

g

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Gavin

Thanks yes, got it sorted with some help from Race Technology. They produced a software update for the DASH-3 to correct the problem.

I have also added oil pressure and temperature sensors now so the back of the DL1 is beginning to look a bit untidy with all the cables.

Del

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Del

On your Dash 3, have you managed to get current live lap time, ie so you can see the seconds counting away, or do you just get a time once the lap is complete?

Also, do you find the Dash 3 does not sometimes pick up the start or a new lap. I think the lap marker you set from the Dash 3 is very precise, so if say you set it whilst on the right of a track, it won't get picked up if you subsequently drive down the left.

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Gavin

Haven't tried to get counting lap time (too busy staring at the track), I just settle for lap time plus difference at the end of the lap. I vaguely recall something about being able to display the current predicted lap time which might give you the instant feedback about whether you are going faster or slower this time around

Not had any problems with picking up start/end of lap. My understanding is that the markers are a line running from a specified point for a specified distance in a specified direction. Have you tried changing the lap marker so that it is wider (i.e. the marker line is longer on the track map display) so that you allow higher variance in track position - I know you experts like to be inch perfect, whereas I (mostly) just settle for anywhere between the edges of the tarmac, so my markers are quite generous (the Castle Combe ones allow me to pass through the pits and still count the lap!). Of course it may be that it doesn't count when you go over the line backwards ;)

As far as I recall, you can't edit the track markers, you have to delete and re-insert, which may be a pain if you have a number of manually created sectors.

Have you spoken with Keiran at Race Technology - I have found him very helpful.

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I think you are right. There are 2 ways of laying down the markers. Either when you get to the track, using the dash 3 and memory card without the .lap file, or before you go, manually placing the marker in the software (assuming you already have that track map) and then saving the .lap file to the memory card for when you get to the track. With the latter I had heard you can stretch the marker right across the track. I'll try that.

Thanks Dell

BTW - got the factory to install my Tyresure sensors. Just brilliant.

g

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I had some problems when I tried to use the Dash 3 to define markers - it didn't seem to like to store the marker if I was moving.

I use the analysis software track map and transfer in a .lap file on the memory card - seems to work. I take a lap top to the track to download and analyse data anyway, so easy enough to set up the .lap file after the first session out on a new track. Also gives the "pit crew" something to play with during the day.

Been running my tyresure sensors for a while now - I think they are excellent. If only they had a data feed into the DL/1 for logging!

Edited by DEL211
Saving up for a sequential gearbox
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My on-board video camera suffered some water egress on its last outing (it rained all day long) but I am hoping it will dry out! I have found the hole in the rubber seal and will seal it before my next outing if the thing drys out.

Does the Video 4 kit allow you to have a "moving dot on the track" display (i.e. track map with a current position indicator)? Also the analysis software allows you to move round the track showing the lateral and longitudinal acceleration as 2 lines (length proportional to force) - would be really nice to be able to display this on the positional dot in real time so that viewers can see what is happening much easier than trying to understand a string of lat and long accel figures. An alternative would be a G Force circle display as used in F1.

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  • 3 months later...

I'm about to buy the DL1 datalogger with the Dash3. Not sure if I should buy the ECU interface though, hence my question :

If I buy the ECU interface, will the Dash3 display all data (like RPM, temperatures etc.) correctly, in other words, would you recommend me to buy the interface ? :)

I also don't know what type of interface I would need, serial or CAN, it's for an Elise R 2009 if that helps.

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Not sure what interface the Elise uses - my 2-11 uses the serial interface although I think the later ones (with the newer dash) use the CAN interface. The people at Race Technology are very helpful - give them a ring. Also Lotus themselves will be able to clarify which interface you have fitted to your car.

I would certainly recommend the interface as this gives access to lots more important data and, if you choose, you can then use the LEDs on the Dash-3 to give you gear change indication (you may find you need to select different rev ranges for each gear as having the lights 100 rpm apart is way too small for lower gears).

Don't forget that you don't only get RPM and temperatures but also things like throttle position and fuel mixture settings.

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  • 4 months later...

Have recently purchased a 2nd Hand 2-11 Build #28.

Keen to add in some Oil /Water/ Fuel pressure/temp gauges/ lap timer plus daylight viewable shift lights .

Interested to read this thread as have come down to Stack Wheel or the DL1 / DL3 combo.

How has the Stack wheel worked out , no problem fitting all the sensors ? and has it been reliable and easy to read.

Is it easy to monitor the gauges on the Track ?

Also interested to note that you were looking at adding an additional sandwich plate . Did that work out ok . I have been trying all over to get info on this , including Lotus , but no one had a definitive answer as to whether it would work or not .

With Regards to The RT DL1 /DL3 option , how has that worked out , any problems . Easy to read ? , where have you mounted on the dash ?

Sorry lots of questions , its all new , so steep learning curve.

Thanks for any help you can give .

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Not had any problems with the sandwich plate for the oil temperature and pressure sensors in about 3,000 miles of usage.

Don't know where you are located but there are a number of places that have experience of fitting the second sandwich plate and could offer you advice.

I have mounted the dash-3 to the left of the instrument binnacle using one of the bolts that retains the aeroscreen - this works fine and puts the shift lights into my line of sight (unless I am sliding sideways!!!). It also puts the buttons within easy reach of my left hand so I don't have to stray too far from the steering wheel (except when I need to stir the gearbox).

Certainly a lot easier to read than the standard info panel, although can benefit from a small sunshield when direct sunlight can bounce off the display screen (perhaps I shouldn't have bought an open cockpit car!).

Hope you enjoy the car!

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The stack wheel is a very cool bit of kit however install not for the feint hearted...

oil pressure/temp - easy as above, just add another sandwich plate.

water temp - pain to get access to the pipes so I just spliced into a header tank loop at the top. Its actually bang on accurate with the dash reading so good enough for me.

speed - you can splice into the amplified ABS signals from the ABS controller to the ECU but this is a pain as the wiring harness is buried in the chassis rather than the centre console like other elises. In the end to save messing with it I simply bought a second hand transmission speed sensor from ebay for 10quid (200 quid new!!) and dropped it into the port on the gearbox. Job done.

RPM - this is in the can bus but not easy to link with the stack. So I got a MSD ignition sensor that just clips over the LT 12v wire from the ECU to a ignition coil. Easy.

fuel pressure - pain in the backside... The best solution I've found is to fit a replacement fuel rail from monkey wrench as this has a fuel sensor port built in. and at the end of the day the pressure here is what counts. Not got round to doing this though.

The big problem is the mounting - there is a cable to the wheel (obviously) and this can easily get tangled limiting the wheel movement (not good!) so I've fabricated a suitble clockspring to allow the wheel to turn properly. Having the removeable wheel boss makes this a bit easier.

None of it is really difficult but it add time. Also I am keen on "reversibility" so everything I've done can be removed very easily.

As for the display it works great - very very bright and the numbers and shift lights exceptionally clear.

One thing though - the 320mm is about the biggest wheel you can fit in the 211 without fouling on the roll bar strut - could be a problem if you are tall or are already struggling hitting th ecage so the 270mm wheel is probably a better option.

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Rather than blow a grand plus on a decent dash and then the time and agro of wiring it properly, we made a direct replacement carbon fibre centre consul and fitted guages (Oil P and EGT) to that. The car will be on display at the Autosport Show this week if you want to take a look.

Alternatively, Aim do a dash that will link to the ECU via the EODB port, but it doesnt read everything, can't remember exactly whats missing though but I know oil pressure is one of them. Maybe worth having a chat to Aim at the show if your going.

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