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For those who have had the opportunity to get serious track time in with their 2-11's, how do you like/dislike the ABS system in racing?

Normally I drive a vintage 61 and the first time out in the 2-11 the ABS felt very wrong.

What are your takes on the ABS system.

Al B.

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I was afraid someone would ask that.

It's a feel kind of thing. In the 61 I can feel when the brakes are going to lock up and ease off. On the 2-11 I have not yet reached that level of "feel". So when I push hard and the ABS kicks in it throws my "touch" out the window. Just re-read that and can't say that I can explain any better.

This is something that I may work out with time and practice but for now I wanted to hear from others without setting a precedence based on my experiences.

With that said, how do you feel about ABS under race conditions? Good, bad, keep, do with-out?

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I must admit I didn't like it to start with but I do now.

If the ABS is kicking in then try to ease off the pedel a little just as you would without ABS (imagine the ABS kicking in = the wheels locking up). The car brakes better when you ease off the pedal, if you know what I mean?

Takes a bit of getting used too but it is a great system. Wait until you race/do a track day in the rain/snow. :blink:

Scotty C

Here for a good time, not a long time

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Agreed, I found the ABS kicked in too earlier when on the track, but once you learn to modulate the brake pedal it was fine.

Interestingly when I upgraded to the "big brake" kit never had the same problem or I just got used to the modified style of braking.

Maybe technology has moved on, but I though ABS was useless in the snow.

Paul

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Not useless as such in the snow. You trade longer stopping distances with retaining "some" steering control. But yes, it does make a big difference. Surprised that a switch isn't fitted to more cars (most saab's and volvos do or at least used to). Maybe they've decided that your average driver who doesn't have to deal with snow often is better off with ABS. And those scandavians who are used to snow can deal with it being off.

The ABS unit uses quite a few different variables - for example press the pedal quickly to a given point will increase the ABS computer kicking in as it think "ut oh - sharp braking = emergency". Pressing the pedal to the same point slower may not bring in the ABS as it's not exceeded the emergency trigger value. this is only a simple example but it illustrates that it does take a considerable change in the braking style to get the most out of it.

The servo between pedal and bakes dulls the feeling you get with lock up so as said above don't rely on that as chances are that by the time you register that sensation as lock up the ABS is already doing it's thing. Use the kickback on the pedal to ascertain lockup instead.

The ultimate best braking point is the region *just* before ABS engages but 99% of the time a 4 channel ABS system will outperform a driver only system on a decent surface.

The big brake kit will help feel as the increased leverage action means not as much pedal force is required to get the same effect.

Stick with it and' you'll start adapting.

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I have an elise without either a server or abs on the brakes, plus the 2-11. It's quite interesting switching from one to another for the first couple of miles :)

I think those of us that have been driving long enough to have learnt before abs had even been thought of, or maybe grew up on bikes as I did, prolly find adjusting to it's being there easier, as we remember how to brake, as opposed to todays drivers who have learnt to rely on abs from the word go.

I have once locked up the 2-11 in a panic brake situation (combine harvester filling the road :blink: ) but instinctively released the pressure and braked again, and came to a very swift, unfussy halt. As said already, steady and increasingly firm pressure very rarely activates the abs in my experience both on road and track. Just part of the car that you need to learn I guess.

I have had quite a few very experienced passengers now - both on trackdays and once running passengers up Prescott Hill Climb course, and they have universally praised the both braking of the car, and the precision of the turn in - usually in equal amounts. One chap I took round Goodwood a few times was completely blown away by the cars performance - and he's a Pantera/Diablo owner who also gets to drive Peter Saywells supercar fleet from time to time and knows his way round cars. He didn't stop raving about the braking particularly for the whole track day, to anyone who would listen.

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Have regulated the small bit of my right foot, and can't fault the brakes. I reckon they are spot on. Biggest thing I notice is variance in bite on cold tyres and cold tarmac. Up to temp, it all just works so very well. Did a demo this morning; damp, cold road - freezing fog, the 2 pots snatched a little too early, ABS working hard. Chap came back later mid afternoon - sunny, cold, but dry roads. Brake feel, ABS actuation totally different.

Chris Harris raved about the brakes @ Anglesey, and reckoned these were a contributory factor to the car mashing some lighter competiton on it's lap time.

Prefer the feel of the 2 pots, but now need to learn on the four pots - find 'em a little grabby, but crikey mikey do they haul the speed down.

ATB, Scott.

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  • 3 weeks later...

They are linked in that they both use the same wheel sensors.

From the wiring diagram (from memory) - The sensors are wired by twisted pair to the ABS controller mounted in the front crash section area. These signals are amplified and then sent to the ECU by four conventional 12v wires that pulse at 29 pulses per revolution.

The ECU uses these feeds to determine if and when it should cut fuel to the injectors for traction control and speedo reading. Normally you'd remove the fuse to the ABS computer but the ECU needs these feeds to function otherwise I suspect it'll go into limp home mode (and you won't have a speedo reading).

I need to have another look though - if the ABS unit is wired to the servo directly (which I think it is) then you *may* be able to deactive it by fitting a switch there but this is very initial rough thoughts.

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After looking through the parts manual the abs unit appears to be integral to the ABS function - the ABS ECU is the same unit that regulates brake pressure so there's no place to insert a switch. The only option would be a compatible brake ECU that has ABS disabled and replace the stock one. Not sure if you can reflash them either.

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Just curious as to why you would want to deactivate the ABS

Paul

I'm running my VX220 S/C with an ABS cut off switch and I much prefer to have absolute & full control of brake pressure, feel & retardation. The 2-11's braking intervenes a little more than I would like, admittedly it is not nearly as intrusive as the VX's but it still takes away some pleasure & control from me.

My car is at Back On Track being Vinyl wrapped at the moment & having a full race geo done with help of Russell at Lotus. B.O.T will be speaking to him about the ABS today for his comments.

Max

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the vx system was a simple two channel system where the abs controller simply caused a relief valve to open. the new lotus one is very modern 4 channel where the abs controller is integral to setting brake pressure. Am sure its possible but not as simple as the vx

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the vx system was a simple two channel system where the abs controller simply caused a relief valve to open. the new lotus one is very modern 4 channel where the abs controller is integral to setting brake pressure. Am sure its possible but not as simple as the vx

Cheers!

Max

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Gets worse - pulling the fuse on the ABS unit usually makes the brake distribution system go into limp home mode which means 50/50 split - not good.

However... Ok - no warranty and use at own risk but one thing that you may want to try is removing the front two hall effect speed sensors.

This *should* (but may not) cause the ABS ECU to register a failure in the system (and cause the light on the dash to appear) however ABS function should be disabled in the ABS ECU. What effect this will have on the traction control and engine ECU I'm not sure. It probably will disable traction control too as the engine ECU won't be able to tell wheel slip and not sure if it'll go into limp home mode. The other thing is the Speedo should still work as long as the rear sensors are working.

At least this is something relatively easy to try first that shouldn't cause any problems if you put the sensors back.

Edited by ads_green
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Can't say that I have found the ABS action all that intrusive but I guess it depends on driving styles. You are obviously a cadence braking hero!

As far as I am aware the ABS ok the GT4 cars are basically standard.

You say you are having the car wrapped at present, being a track car and subject to some minor damage to one of the 13 replacable panels, can just a section of the wrap be replaced?

Paul

Edited by pgn340r
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Can't say that I have found the ABS action all that intrusive but I guess it depends on driving styles. You are obviously a cadence braking hero!

As far as I am aware the ABS ok the GT4 cars are basically standard.

You say you are having the car wrapped at present, being a track car and subject to some minor damage to one of the 13 replacable panels, can just a section of the wrap be replaced?

Paul

Paul,

Yes they can just recover a single panel as each panel is covered individually. They now have the templates to reproduce any panel & any 2-Eleven standard or custom graphics. I'm having 3M fitted on top of the vinyl, to usual areas as vinyl alone is not good enough. The drivers floor footwell is also being covered with a non slip heel area too. BOT have now spoken to Russell & a ABS cut off is V straight forward with a switch being fitted by the traction control panel.

Max

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