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Track spec 2eleven?


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Hi all. My research for the perfect track day car has inevitably led me to this forum. I am looking for a full-time track car to use at the Monticello Motor Club this year. I originally thought it was going to be an Ariel Atom, but after spending several weeks weighing the options, I'm now leaning towards a 2eleven.

I'll be researching a potential purchase further on this forum and I hope to meet some cool enthusiasts here. :blink:

The biggest question I have so far is what spec/options I should be considering for a full time track 2eleven. I won't be registering the car for road use at all. In fact, it will be stored on site at the track. I'm brand new to the Lotus and 2eleven world, so forgive me for not even knowing what options are available. I plan to brush up on all of this knowledge with the help of this board. In the mean time, any pointers would be most appreciated!

Regards to all.

Ramon

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Hi and welcome :blink:

It does depend largely on what you are used to and what you want. One key thing to remember is that many of the options can be retrofitted fairly straightfordly at a later date.

The base car is exactly that so is a starting point. The 211 is fairly unique as the non supercharged 190bhp car is still very very quick at 4.3 to 60mph however a majority of 211's are the 250bhp supercharged car.

The track pack is a good buy with better brakes and fully adjustable suspension.

I've added the 211 brochure - not sure if its the most recent but should give you a feel for whats what.

http://support.alltria.co.uk:2082/index.pdf

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Ramon,

I'm not sure what is available to you in Canada but in the US the only option available at time of order is color. Ours came with the "track pack" which was the Ohlns suspension, supercharger, and Recaro seat. US models have no front driving or marker lights but do have rear running and brake lights. Most everybody agrees that you immediately need an accessory exhaust system (the stock is way too quiet and sanitary) and the Lotus Sport urethane motor mounts (aids in shifting feel and reduces fatigue to exhaust system). Both the exhaust and engine mounts can also be purchased from Sector 111 (a popular supplier of aftermarket Elise/Exige/2-Eleven accessories) in California. Debate continues as to whether you need the Lotus Sport upgraded brakes and the anti-slip rear. The stock fuel tank is small (ten gal). They now have fixed the gremlins that were causing fuel starvation when the fuel tank ran low and the car was engaged in long left hand turns. FIA fuel cells of various capacities are available from Lotus Sport but are expensive and labor intensive to install. It is widly accepted that slicks should not be used on the car unless a dry sump system is fitted (something that Lotus is working on). The Accusump system fitted to the car is still not enough to protect the bearings and top end in long left hand turns (the car's obvious nemisis!).

Other Lotus Sport accessories are available. Bibs has just posted on this forum the latest and greatest Lotus Sport accessory catalog. Check it out. If possible, see if you can ask the dealer to have Lotus install the accessories to your 2-Eleven during assembly. That would eliminate having spare parts you don't need and also hopefully save you some "install" money.

I've never driven the Atom but those who have say there is no comparison to the 2-Eleven. Most reports of the Atom say that it is frightening fast and terrifying to drive! The 2-Eleven can be tail happy and is real sensitive to tire pressures over 28#'s hot. Everyone who has purchased the car, is pleased with it. It's an absolute hoot to drive. If you've only owned big iron before, you're in for a real treat if you purchase a 2-Eleven. Once you drive a car that weighs less than 2,000 lbs you never want to go back.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate contacting me.

Bill

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Thanks for the detailed responses, guys. Sorry for the late reply - when the thread was moved, my subscription to it must have reset b/c I didn't see anything in my inbox and I thought nobody replied!

Anyway, I will be ordering the car from a U.S. dealer, so does that mean the track pack is already included?

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Ramon,

Adam was more specific about what comes on the car in the US. Download the 2-Eleven brochure link that he gave and that should answer all of your questions. I think the US model is still only available in one version but all Elise/Exige colors are now available. Try, however, to see if the factory can mount the Lotus Sport accessories that you might want at the time of assembly. Bibs recently gave a link for the 2009 Lotus Sport catalog. This will cut the final cost and install aggravation of replacement parts to the OEM parts. I think the new cars also have a tow eye in the front and rear as standard equipment. And as I said, the OEM fuel tank "fuel surge" issue has been corrected. Your car should come with the upgraded fuel tank.

You may want to check out my "first impression" of the car in my first introduction to the forum.

Once again, if you have further questions and would like to talk with me, e-mail me direct with your phone number and a time that is best to contact you.

Bill

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hi ramon,

glad to hear your choise of the lotus 2 eleven as your track car. i am sure you will have an enjoyable time with her.

i am currently managing a team with a lotus 2 eleven and we specialize in endurance race. our team empire motorsports was established 7 months ago and we have participated in the 12H MME in malaysia and have just completed the 24H dubai race.

the 2 eleven is a fantastic track package right out of the box. a couple of improvement can be made to make her more exciting.

1) brakes : ap racing 4 port in the fronts. we are running standard rears at the moment. pagid rs14 pads.

2) fuel tank : get the 70 liter bag tank which is the largest available at the moment. brings down the weight and you should still be able to get back to pit if it starts to surge.

3) will you be running slicks? if you intend, the michelins one of the better performing tyres with consistent wear and pretty lasting too. this car is super light and it's easy on the tyres. unfortunately, hv no experience on the road tyres but i m pretty sure other forum members can fill you in on that.

4) our car in dubai ran a very compact accusump which worked wonderfully. will try to get the specs if you are interested. you will definitely want to have this installed.

5) suspension, the standard ohlins are great. you will probably need some revalving if you are going to run slicks.

6) if you are planning to run nights, hv the headlamps changed to HIDs and it might be a good idea to have a running LED light facing front to warn the drivers up front that you are behind as the 2 eleven is just so low but extremely fast. you will do lots of overtaking via late braking.

7) exhaust, you might want to get a more free flowing system.

8) gearbox, closer ratios will definitely knock the time down.

9) suspension setup is essential as this can improve your time by 3 - 4 secs.

10) we are running air jacks for quicker tyre change and a dry brake system but not necessary unless you are doing endurance racing.

do post some pics when you get your car.

here is ours:

kelv

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If you are running slicks make sure the fuel tank is upgraded else you are likely to get fuel surge on left hand corners.

It appears that Lotus has a fix for the stock tank which solves the fuel surge issue. I've been running the new tank with no problems so far. No starvation down to less than 1/2 gallon of fuel.

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hi guys,

only have 1 type available for the 2 eleven for michelin slicks

front : 20/61 - 16TL S7C

rear : 24/61 - 17 X TL S8B

ideally we would like softer compounds for the fronts perhaps a S6 or S5 to get more bite at the front end. the rears are fine. our challenge with the 2 eleven is that it is so light, it's hard to get heat into the tyres to maximize the grip. we find the ideal pressure is 1.9 to max 2.0 bar which is about 28 - 29 lbs. cold you can try 1.35 bar (about 20 lbs). we vary the pressure of each tyre on cold depending on the track and temperature. just bear in mind that the 2 eleven gives so much feedback that 0.5 bar difference makes a lot of difference.

our 2 eleven is so gentle on the tyres that the team beside us in dubai actually came up to us and asked when were we going to change our tyres. they were doing change of tyres every 2 driver stints. we did our first change of tyres after 200 laps and even then it was still pretty fresh. the michelins are just incredible on this car. personal opinions is no need to try other brands unless you can get your hands on some confidential tyres, :blink:

we are using the 70 liter bag tank from lotus and only experience fuel surge when we are almost out of fuel. the latest design prevents the fuel from overflowing at the side of the tanks hence preventing fuel surge. if i am not mistaken, the very early models did not have this feature hence fuel surge will occur on high speed lefties but lotus has fixed this so if you are experiencing fuel surge, better come in straight away to avoid being towed back. at the 24H Dubai Race, we usually ran to fuel surge or almost fuel surge before bringing the car in for refueling. each driver has a 2 hour window and we tried to minimize pitting time.

just bear in mind that the fuel gauge cannot be used to judge the fuel level in the car so you will probably want to load up a full tank and test the max laps/distance your 2 eleven can manage. we managed 40 laps x 5.432 km for our car 217 km before fuel surging on test sessions so to avoid fuel surge, we try to get the car in on lap 35 which means our car has a safe run time of about 85 minutes at sepang international circuit which is fine as the rules for that race only permits a 75 minutes max for each driver.

hope the info in helpful.

kelv

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It appears that Lotus has a fix for the stock tank which solves the fuel surge issue. I've been running the new tank with no problems so far. No starvation down to less than 1/2 gallon of fuel.

Is that on slicks though?

The FIA bag tank is the ultimate fuel surge solution as it operates like a dry sump with a separate scavenger pump on the right side to constantly pump fuel over to the fuel pump. It's the reason why the fuel gauge loses accuracy as the float arm is connected to the pump within the baffled area thats constantly being pumped to overfill by the scavenger pump.

The stock tank from lotus still can surge - it's only baffled so fuel can still overflow the baffles and through the holes. With slicks this is much more likely as the forces involved are that much higher. the only other non-fia bag tank solution (don't like the 5 year replacement hassle) is something like the pro alloy tank that has both safety foam (stock doesn't) and one-way baffles that shut when the fuel tries to flow away.

All I'm saying about slicks is although the 211 is a great track car the difference in grip between them and 048s is massive. It can stress the oil and fuel systems whilst playing havok with the suspension so be aware. Even if you don't feel the car bogging due to surge it could still be suffering a loss of pressure in the fuel rail possibly resulting in a lean mixture. So if you are going to do this I would advise some monitoring just in case.

Oh - top pic with the glowing brakes.

Edited by ads_green
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Thanks for the info, Kelvin.

I couldn't find your rear size on the Michelin site...closest was a 24/64x17" which is too tall.

I've got the new Lotus 70 litre fuel cell in my Cup car and it, in deed, allows you to run the gas level down to virtually empty without any fuel starvation. I never rely on the gas gauge...it gets confused by g-forces. :blink:

Best of luck in your future racing endeavors.

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fia bag tank - that explains the no surge issue :blink:

the stock tank wont take it though and its about 2k-3k fitted and only lasts 5 years, has to be inspected annually (I think).

I did see a F40 be destroyed at a track day to a bag failure (not a fault just well, well past its replacement date) so they do need looking after

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Is that on slicks though?

The FIA bag tank is the ultimate fuel surge solution as it operates like a dry sump with a separate scavenger pump on the right side to constantly pump fuel over to the fuel pump. It's the reason why the fuel gauge loses accuracy as the float arm is connected to the pump within the baffled area thats constantly being pumped to overfill by the scavenger pump.

The stock tank from lotus still can surge - it's only baffled so fuel can still overflow the baffles and through the holes. With slicks this is much more likely as the forces involved are that much higher. the only other non-fia bag tank solution (don't like the 5 year replacement hassle) is something like the pro alloy tank that has both safety foam (stock doesn't) and one-way baffles that shut when the fuel tries to flow away.

All I'm saying about slicks is although the 211 is a great track car the difference in grip between them and 048s is massive. It can stress the oil and fuel systems whilst playing havok with the suspension so be aware. Even if you don't feel the car bogging due to surge it could still be suffering a loss of pressure in the fuel rail possibly resulting in a lean mixture. So if you are going to do this I would advise some monitoring just in case.

The answer to your questions...yes on slicks and yes on a/f ratio monitoring (gauge to the left of the steering wheel in the photo below). Lotus has a new tank (in addition to the fuel cell) for 'track-spec' 2Eleven's....it solves the fuel starvation issue. And, you could easily get "fuel surge" on 048's (let alone slicks) with the original tank.

I've also recently received the new fuel cell from Lotus Sport and it works great -- solved the fuel surge of the original ATL fuel cell that came with my Cup255.

Edited by Jack
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As far as I'm aware the only change to the tank was that the sealing on the baffles would fail on the old tanks so they just got that sorted.

It still will surge in extreme cases - it's only a baffle. It's like saying who needs an accusump/dry sump if you have a baffled sump?

Adam, your information is not correct...the changes to the tank consist of a revised return tube and additional internal "parts" .....the new tank is different, but I guess you don't believe me. Check with the Lotus engineers. :)

Fuel cells are a wonderful alternative...much safer than steel tanks, lighter, holds more fuel, but has a 5 year shelf life -- I've got one of those too. Btw, as far as I could see when looking inside the fuel cell when I had the new and improved one installed, there was no additional "scavenger" pump, as compared to the earlier cell (which had worse fuel surge than the steel tank). :blink:

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Adam, your information is not correct...the changes to the tank consist of a revised return tube and additional internal "parts" .....the new tank is different, but I guess you don't believe me. Check with the Lotus engineers. :)

If the new tanks are fine then great but that doesn't help the first 200 odd cars.

Given that the revisions a minor at best and a replacement tank costs more than a pro-alloy (which is also lighter, safety foam filled and proper anti-surge one way baffles) even including the fitting costs I know what I'd go with.

Fuel cells are a wonderful alternative...much safer than steel tanks, lighter, holds more fuel, but has a 5 year shelf life -- I've got one of those too. Btw, as far as I could see when looking inside the fuel cell when I had the new and improved one installed, there was no additional "scavenger" pump, as compared to the earlier cell (which had worse fuel surge than the steel tank). :blink:

I assumed Lotus provided the ATL super cells which include the setup for a multi pump system (also I thought the extra wiring harness required mentioned on the fitting instructions backed this up).

My bad - the bag tanks Lotus supply aren't the ATL super cells with the separate scavenger pump. But they do feature trapdoor/one way baffles.

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Jack,

As you probably know, you got the replacement fuel tank that was slated for my car. I relinquished it because by the time it got to the States, I couldn't guarantee that I'd get to test it for several months (weather related). I've been in touch with Nick Adams and he confirmed that your testing has convinced them that they have a cure for the fuel starvation problem. The revised tank will be fitted to all new '09 2-Elevens but Lotus has yet to decide how they are going to handle retrofits of existing cars. I've kept quiet about this until now but I think it's time for all of the current owners of the regular tanks that are subject to fuel surge to get in touch with Lotus and request a retrofit tank. The 2-Eleven should have been better tested, especially when this was a problem with the Elise/Exige cars, before they released it with a tank that would be subject to fuel surge in long left handers.

..............and while on high "G" force long left handers, I'd still advise that if you frequent tracks with these you do not fit the 2-Eleven with slicks and risk oil starvation.

Bill

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