Honda powered 2-11

[Scotty C]

A close friend of mine had a 245bhp AA. We used to have a great time on track together, the Atom would have me on the slow corners, but the 2-11 would blow him away on the big swooping corners. Not much in the braking. We did a few laps a Dijon together (my first trackday in the 2-11) we were going side by side up the straight at 140 MPH coming into the braking zone . I used to love driving his car but the AA just wants to go sideways all the time I found it very easy to drive, but I think I would get bored with it after a while, I'm sure the 300+ bhp would be a different toy altogether.

I hope it works out for you.

Scotty

[Edika]

Things seem more difficult than I expected but it progress.

Electronic problems between engine and dash are resolved. The chargecooler as been made. THe exhaust is OK.

The engine will really run if I have all all understood after I called Andy by phone.

It's hard for me to be far and understanding only half of the explanations

[[email protected]]

Never driven an Atom but the only advantages it has are (a) better engine ( less weight. This will be fascinating as and when it comes together since I've never really understood why it should be so difficult to put a Honda engine into a Lotus.

[stephanie plum]

iirc, and I am a technical numpty so feel free to shoot me down, it's something to do with the angle at which the engine sits in relation to the driveshaft.

I remember talking to Nick about it, and he said something about it being a couple of degrees out, and the difficulties lie in the physics.

I am blonde though so I could be completely and utterly mistaken

[[email protected]]

For what its worth I have heard the driveshaft angle problem, but have also heard that it was the seals that where not good and that the grease was coming out, thus causing problems with said shafts. Anyway never an easy one...and not something you can do in switzerland anyway.

[[email protected]]

I'm sure that you are accurately reporting what Nick says, and I'm equally sure there are technical issues... but Ariel seem to manage, and their enginering skills are probably less advanced than at Lotus.

[stephanie plum]

I don't think there would be any issues if Lotus were fitting them as they would have designed with the Honda engine in mind. But the car is designed around a Toyota engine, hence the difficulties experienced. I suspect that Ariel had a shedload of help from Honda when it came to the development of the unit within the Atom.

[Edika]

In fact, the driveshaft problem seems to be resolved. When you look in the motor compartiment, even with the Toy engine, there is angle in the front direction. The exit of the gearbox is a little in front compare to the wheels. Look in your cars, you will understand. MSD order good quality dirveshaft and it's OK.

[[email protected]]

Pinched from Seloc

[Edika]

[ads_green]

As above - the entire lotus rear subframe was designed around the toyota engine and drivetrain. The old K series frame was almost a straight fit for the honda engine (give or take a few custom engine mounts). The new rear subframe makes this much harder.

Also I wouldn't bank on the driveshafts not being a problem with the honda just becuase the toyota is slightly forward. I had a look under a Celica and it's the same layout - I guess they are trying to mount the engine transversly but push it back in the car as far as possible whilst pushing the front wheels out to the front a bit. This suggests to me the Toyota drivetrain is fundamentally designed to run ok at that angle - if the honda is different then this will cause problems.

[Edika]

Andy never call me about transmissions problems so I think he has resolved them. Any way, I've heard that the 211 chassis was nearly the same as the S1 Elise.

The chargecooler is not the same as expected so it has to be made especialy for the car if I ve well understood.

[jackg]

Edika

Could I have the contact details of the people who are doing the conversion? I Would be really interested to speak to you when the car is done. I love my 2-11 but hate the gearbox and would love more power. The new sequential box is tres cher for just just track days so not for me. The honda sounds like an option.

Now the 500 bhp V8 from the Atom/Caterham sounds the real deal. Anyone fancy splitting the development costs with me?

Jack

[Bibs]

http://www.maidstonesportscars.co.uk/

[maidstone sports cars]

Hi All

Just to confirm we are doing a Honda conversion to a 211

There is bags of room in there so we have been able to position the engine for optimun driveshaft angles.Something that was not possible before.Work is progressing well and most issues have been resolved

We are looking at power of around 380 bhp at the flywheel using a combination of super charger/charge cooler and A3 cams etc.This package has been running reliablily in many of our customers cars for over a year now with no issues!!!

For everones information we have not had a driveshaft issue in one of our cars for years including our race cars.

That problem was put to bed with us a long time ago.However we do have our own solution which we only apply to our cars.

This 211 is going to be awsome when finished and I for one cannot wait to see the result!!

The other side to this conversion is that we will soon be able to carry out Honda conversions to the Toyota range of cars aswell!!

There are also some exciting new developements which will also be available shortly

Regards Andrew Marsh

Maidstone Sports Cars

[Edika]

Bibs was faster than me and Andrew too !!

http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm

Twice power : is it enought ?

What about the reliability ? Since a long time the K20 SC is used on track car so it is a good choice for me.

I don't know if it is possible to put this V8 into the 211 but for Andy all will be new (cooler, mounts, driveshafts...) so (if it's possible) you will have to be very very patient !

And don't disturb him during my conversion please

Edited June 3, 2009 by Edika

[[email protected]]

We are looking at power of around 380 bhp at the flywheel using a combination of super charger/charge cooler and A3 cams etc.

This is Ariel eating category up to 100 mph (and above ofcoz) not to mention gt3's (at least on tracks were top speed does not exceed 150 mph), now can you fit the sequential box to the honda in for a penny, in for a whole lot of pounds

[jackg]

Hi Andrew of Maidstone cars

Would love to talk to you about the 2-11 at some point when you are finished. Perhaps I'll nip obver and see how it's going

Jack

[Edika]

You will have to be very quick Jack

As soon as it will be ready, I will come to England to take it to France (the big ego people country)

In France we say often that we have the idea be not the people to apply them, I feel that we are exactly in the case ! Thanks to Andy for this job.

[ronin]

What is this obsession with the Honda engine when the 2ZZ can be made to put out as much power as you want, no need to swap engines. ?..How's 550 rwhp ?

[Edika]

Because nobody in Europe offers to put more than 320 hp with good reliability

[[email protected]]

Exactly, you just show everyone how easily it's done with the Toyota and the world will beat a path to your door. Cf the Honda engine is very widely used already in high states of tune.

I'll be following this MSC project with great interest. This (ie low power) is the one reason why I haven't bought a 211 yet.

[ads_green]

It's possible to make any engine put out massive power - just look at the 1.6l turbo F1 engines off the 80's putting out silly numbers like 1500bhp.

The problems come down to basic cost and ease of use.

Your engine and car is by all accounts stunning but certainly from the bit's I've picked up it's not been without it's fair share of teething troubles along the way. I'm sure you were supercharged at one point then binned it in favour of a turbo which then shredded the gearbox. Thats the big stuff not counting all the extras I've seen such as the fueling and oil cooling setups.

Most people would prefer a solution backed by a supplier - the maidstone and sinclairs backup support is excellent and IIRC both still comes with a 1 year warranty. Certainly for standard elises it's a case of drop the car off, wait a week, pick up car and pay the bill. Hey presto 330 odd bhp. The conversion is so old now (5years+) that most if not all the problems have been worked out by previous customers.

Would it be possible to offer a package similar to yours including fitting and warranty for

[lotusbert]

In many cases investing in your driver skills will make you far more faster ( on a circuit) than any power upgrade...

I am pretty sure that this counts for more then 90% of us here on the forum and out there, especcially those who are never satisfied with more power. It is a kind of ego tripping : look at me i have xyz bhp !

For sure investing in power will make you faster but it will never camouflage poor driving skills ! I will have more fun driving a car to its limits than the car driving me at my limits...Beeing capable of driving a car to its limit with your own limit is heaven ofcoarse !

So we live in a free world, if you think a 2-11 with Honda transplant is the way to go, please do and keep us informed, likewise for Toyota upgrades !

For the moment i'm utterly pleased with my bock standard 2-11 ! Still investing in driving skills you know !

Bert

keeping the Lotus spirit high (low weight car, reasonbly powered, most of the times a lot faster than some 'power' cars) !!

Edited June 6, 2009 by lotusbert

[Edika]

Edit lotusbert : "In many cases investing in your driver skills will make you far more faster ( on a circuit) than any power upgrade...

I am pretty sure that this counts for more then 90% of us here on the forum and out there, especcially those who are never satisfied with more power."

Right !