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Well apart from the usual notchy passage from 2nd to 3rd, have noticed something else when on track (and only on track) when charging along in fourth and passing 5th at shift light, the gear does not go in smoothly, which is strange since on the road it has never done this, even after aformentionned trackday, also noticed when going done from 5th to 4th when car is in a long bend (Lurcy for those who know) it is easy to get 6th instead of fourth. Do not have the new engine mounts yet, so maybe this will cure this ?

Anyway anybody else experienced this and had it cured by new engine mounts ?

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Agree with Tam, engine mounts are a must upgrade, and surprise surprise cheap too ( for Lotus :wacko: ).

Adds a fair amount of vibration, but as we are not talking saloon cars here, so the trade off is well worth the increase throttle response and (perceived) handling benefits.

However, agree with Jo, that they should have been a free retrofit.

Paul

Edited by pgn340r
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This looks like a good answer to the "row boat" shifter on the 2-Eleven (as well as, all Elise/Exige variants) when coupled with the "Lotus Sport" type engine mounts. Troy claims to have sent this kit to several 2-Eleven owners including some in Europe but could not (or would not) reveal the names. Right now he is awaiting for a shipment with upgraded rod ends. I plan on getting one of these kits but won't be able to track test it for a number of weeks. If anyone has had any previous experience with this kit, please pass on your experience in the forum. www.trueleo.com/Elise.htm

Bill

Edited by whl3
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Bill,

I left you a message in response to your email regarding the short-shift kit -- call me when you have time. In a nutshell, the ssk doesn't appear to be ready for prime time. :wacko:

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I have the truleo kit and will get around to installing it soon.

Same here. I also added the Sector 111 stiffener plate and the urethane motor mounts. Those two additions helped quite a bit but still left room for improvement. On a tight twisty course where the shifting has to be fast and furious, missed shifts or a struggle to find the gear can still occur. even with the required "light touch" shifting can be frustrating at times.

I'm hoping the truelo kit will, by virtue of decreased shifter travel, remove the sloppy feel that the stock unit currently is exhibiting.

If not, then I may have to cough up the dosh for a sequential unit once a durable and proven one has been produced.

Al

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This was written by Ronin at SELOC (Ronin's style is a bit 'special' but on the etchnical side i agree 100 % with the comments on the short shifter) concerning short shifting systems and grinding gearshifts

have a nice read and decide for yourselves :wacko:

Bert

Re: Short Shift from LETSLA

icon_post_target.gifby ronin on Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:36 am

Here's a better explanation...... icon_biggrin.gif

A Word About Transmissions, Syncros, and Short Shift Kits

The Toyota transmission, or any modern transmission for that matter, relies on brass syncronizer rings to allow matching of gear speed to transmission input shaft or pinion shaft speed to allow grind-free shifting. Picture in your mind that this brass syncronizer ring is a kind of brake pad acting against the gear itself which would be analogous to a brake rotor. Now each "brake pad" syncronizer has to stop it's gear from turning every time a different gear is selected. (All forward Toyota gears have their own syncronizer. Reverse does not have a syncronizer.) Now, when a car's driver moves the shift lever faster from gear to gear, the syncronizer ring has to stop it's gear from turning in less time than if the shift was made slower. Sometimes a gear change is made faster than what the brass syncronizer can physically handle and the gears grind together before they mesh, often causing only very slight damage to the gear teeth as the gears are extremely hard (Reverse gears are the exception here, they are soft.). So, what you see is that it is possible to overwhelm the syncronizer's ability to perform it's function as the speed of shifting is increased.

With any short shift kit it can be assumed that the time interval for all of the required "gear braking" CAN be reduced since the gears are closer together. If you select gears at the same speed as when your car had a stock shift linkage then there is no difference and your syncronizers have plenty of time to do their job. Basically what I'm saying here is that the faster you change gears even with a stock shift linkage the greater the chance for gear grinding. And so if you speed shift your gears with your new short shift kit then you run a greater chance of getting gear grind. It's that simple. It doesn't matter whose kit you are using, either. If you overwhelm the syncronizer's ability to do it's job then you will eventually get gear grinding and you will also overheat and destroy your syncronizer for the particular gear that is grinding. The only recourse in this case is to replace the brass syncronizer ring inside the transmission which is somewhat expensive. And if you grind gears for too long you might break a tooth off of one of your gears and this floating tooth is not very good for the guts of your transmission.

It is extremely important to note that if you already have a bad syncronizer for a certain gear BEFORE you install ANY short shift kit then you will only put more stress on the syncronizer and you will likely get more lovely grinding than before. I recommend that you DO NOT speed shift your transmission or install a short shift kit if you have experienced significant gear grind at any time. You will wear out your syncros or break a tooth if you do. A grind every once in a while is normal since we can't clutch and shift perfectly every time but you must realize that if you have a persistent grinding problem it will likely get worse if you shift faster. If you have to "granny shift" (wait longer to engage a gear after pushing in the clutch) your transmission to avoid grinding before installing a short shift kit then DON'T install a kit until you replace the syncronizer for the gear that is causing grind. In summary, as with guns, short shift kits don't kill transmissions, PEOPLE kill transmissions! Knowledge is power.

With all of this said, I recommend Redline gear oils (MT-90 or MTL) for all Toyota transmissions since they have the best frictional properties for the brass syncronizer rings in my opinion. The other leading cause of failure is by breaking off a gear tooth by letting gears grind and/or NOT replacing a worn or slipping clutch which will also increase the chances for grinding.

Jim Royston 9-05-200

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If not, then I may have to cough up the dosh for a sequential unit once a durable and proven one has been produced.

Al

There speaks a rich man, the Lotus one, as used on the GT4 will set you back around 25,000 bucks! (GBP 20,000 for us limeys')

Paul

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There speaks a rich man, the Lotus one, as used on the GT4 will set you back around 25,000 bucks! (GBP 20,000 for us limeys')

Paul

I see. In that case the Truelo will have to work just fine thank you. A rich man would just buy it. Us poor folk can only dream.

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This was written by Ronin at SELOC (Ronin's style is a bit 'special' but on the etchnical side i agree 100 % with the comments on the short shifter) concerning short shifting systems and grinding gearshifts

have a nice read and decide for yourselves :wacko:

The problem is that these comments and flames were made without anybody actually reading the details or seeing the unit. The truleo kit CAN be used as a shortshifter but it can be adjusted to near stock throw so the comments are no longer valid.

One of the best aftermarket kits for the Rover elise was a revised gearlinkage that replaced bushes with proper bearings. It was so good that Lotus started fitting something very similar as standard on later S2's. This kit does the same and removes alot of the slack from a system far from using tight tolerances.

Shortshifters have been available on the elise for decades - it was one of the first aftermarket mods made available for the rover cars. I don't agree that shortshifters on their own cause problems. If you have a stock gear linkage and try to change gear hamfisted and rough then you'll break things in exactly the same way as that described.

I'm personally not a great fan of short shifters but got this kit as it's 2 way adjustable with option for stock throw.

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Just a word of caution, FWIW.

It's not the "shorter shift setting" that may be causing the issues that a few have recently encountered at the track with this kit. It's the angle at which the kit relocates the shift cables coming out from the tranny .... after a relatively short time of serious shifting (like during heavy track usage) using the longest (stock) throw length, binding of the shift cables resulted, followed by some cable failures. You'll see what I mean after installing the kit ... just take note of the cable angle when stock and after you do the install. The parts contained in the kit are top notch and the concept is good -- it just needs some more R&D.

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Adam,

Nothing to be sorry about ... just sharing some firsthand experiences of a couple of friends who have the Kit installed on their cars and are serious track junkies. I didn't make it up. :wacko:

At the most recent track event of the Lotus Challenge Series, both cars with this Kit suffered cable issues on day 1 of a weekend event (I believe one had it set at the standard throw length the other at the "slightly shorter than stock" setting) . New cables had to be installed at the track and luckily it didn't ruin their weekend as the competition/race was on Sunday and we had some Lotus tech support (including spare parts) present. I know one of the guys removed the Kit and went back to "stock" at the track .... perhaps it was just the stock cable bracket that was needed to get the newly installed cables in the correct orientation -- I don't know for certain. Apparently, the binding/chaffing occurred in the middle section of the cable.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I told ya so..... :wacko:

Now for the good news........ The newly installed Toyota E153 gearbox in my car works great and can handle what ever power I can make...

Took a cruise on some back roads today......120mph in third, eighty in second......this box will handle all the torque you'll ever need....

Now to soften up the mounts, no need for the majic fingers....

I think it's fast enough…maybe

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Ronin - you forgot to rant about how much this forum and users suck like you are on seloc:

So what the [Censored] is up with these guys.....not LETSLA but the guys knowing that the gizmo sucks and not telling everyone about it. Theylet the facts slip out that it's a [Censored] ed design on a forum with 50 members while Lotus owners are still buyin this shit......boo ....you guys suck... thumbdown.gif

from the 211 forum

Jack

Apr 9 2009

Post #12

Name: Jack

Car: 2008 2Eleven

Just a word of caution, FWIW.

It's not the "shorter shift setting" that may be causing the issues that a few have recently encountered at the track with this kit. It's the angle at which the kit relocates the shift cables coming out from the tranny .... after a relatively short time of serious shifting (like during heavy track usage) using the longest (stock) throw length, binding of the shift cables resulted, followed by some cable failures. You'll see what I mean after installing the kit ... just take note of the cable angle when stock and after you do the install. The parts contained in the kit are top notch and the concept is good -- it just needs some more R&D.

--------------------

Jack

Adam,

Nothing to be sorry about ... just sharing some firsthand experiences of a couple of friends who have the Kit installed on their cars and are serious track junkies. I didn't make it up.

At the most recent track event of the Lotus Challenge Series, both cars with this Kit suffered cable issues on day 1 of a weekend event (I believe one had it set at the standard throw length the other at the "slightly shorter than stock" setting) . New cables had to be installed at the track and luckily it didn't ruin their weekend as the competition/race was on Sunday and we had some Lotus tech support (including spare parts) present. I know one of the guys removed the Kit and went back to "stock" at the track .... perhaps it was just the stock cable bracket that was needed to get the newly installed cables in the correct orientation -- I don't know for certain. Apparently, the binding/chaffing occurred in the middle section of the cable.

--------------------

Jackthumbdown.gif

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Ronin - you forgot to rant about how much this forum and users suck like you are on seloc:

No I didn't you just beat me to the punch........a forum is only as good as the members who look out for each other :wacko:

I think it's fast enough…maybe

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I don't see how saying "we all suck" to the other boards is particulary "looking out for forum members"

Esp as the points reaised are already on the LT thread which to be fair is the main source of info on this piece of kit. So you'll know then that both Jack and I are posting alot on the main LT thread. I don't see the needs to repost duplicate stuff all over the place.

Kinda like the recent 211 260 vs gotham post.

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Let me rephrase that...you and guys like you suck.... and since when is Lotus Talk the holy grail of Lotus crap..... :wacko:

I pointed out the issue whit this shift kit back in Jan. http://www.monkeytuner.com/forum/viewtopic...085&start=0

So if you wanna follow the sheep on Lotus Talk ga head...... :wub:

I think it's fast enough…maybe

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Look, LT isn't perfect. This forums isn't perfect. I'm not perfect. And you sir are far from it as well.

The advantage of the LT thread over the monkey tuner thread is at least it's getting somewhere and progress is being made. If everybody just walked around pointing at things and saying "that sucks" and doing nothing about it then I doubt we'll be out of caves by now.

A couple of constructive posts on this forum between me and Jack seem to have got you so riled that you feel the need to personally abuse us. Why? I really don't get it. What is it that I've supposed to have done/not done that has offended you quite so?

You don't like the product - fine. Exercise your demcratic rights and don't buy the damn thing.

You've pointed out faults. Again, fine, but why bash people who are trying to get to the bottom of the very points you make out?

I'm not the one on a crusade here - I'm just looking at options to improve certain aspect of my car. Surely you of all people can appreciate that.

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Oh yeah you are so right....let's see the known problems with this linkage were pointed out on monkey three months before anyone said a word on Lotus Talk...

A hundred guys could have saved their time and money but it's guys like you pushing this crap because your egos can't face the fact that monkeys know what they're talkin about......

Keep reading Lotus Talk and tell us all how to paint the numbers on your shift knob.... :wacko:

I think it's fast enough…maybe

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My ego has nothing to do with it - I don't care if it works or not and if it doesn't then I'll be the first to reply. I'm not pushing this at all. Only raised as an alternative.

I prefer to treat people as adults and let them make their own minds up.

The problem you have is that you seem to want to do the opposite.

The really sad thing is that people may be more inclined to read monkey if 90% of it wasn't filled with rant after rant followed by insult after insult. It's like being a kid's playground with odd really useful piece of info thrown in if you can be bothered to wade through it.

Edit: and what do i find on monkey? yep the same old s**t saying how f**cked up we are on this forum.

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