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Hi again folks!

As part of my project, I'm using the latest V8 (S350) front lower suspension arms on the S3 chassis.

The main pivot point of the arm is as far as I can see compatible with the chassis without issues.

However, the point in the chassis where the forward leg of the arm attaches needs to be addressed as there is none on the S3 chassis :-).

I'll use the front "subframe" on the chassis as a starting point, and strengthen it in all 3 dimensions.

But my concern is the line up of this point relative to the rear.  I have a feeling that even if the two points of the arm itself are parallel, the corresponding points on the chassis may not be - to make a correct geometry.

 

If I use a long straight steel bar through the rear (main) pivot point of the chassis and let it extend forwards through the area of the front pivot point, where will the correct bracket / hole be?  Will it be in the straight line?  If not, how many mm over or under and how many mm in/out from the main line?

 

I know that the lower arm my Marcos front suspension has the rear pivot point set lower than the front but at the same in/out distance from the centre of the car.

 

This will be a crucial dimension to get right in order to make the car behave like a Lotus on the road.

 

Does somebody here KNOW this by heart?

Does somebody have a bare chassis "laying around" in the garage?

Or can somebody point me towards an expert source that can put this right?

 

All help and input appreciated  :)

 

The right hand side arm an pickup points:

post-4446-0-33612100-1357768947.jpg

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Don't know if I should post our housing project as part of my Esprit build log, but in a way it IS part of the build!  I see elsewhere on this forum that there is a discussion about in- and outdoors p

Brakes update I have wondered for some time about how to install the right brakes to this Lotus.  As said before I've promised the authorities to use the brake setup from an S350.  And the four c

The progress of this project is even slower than I thought it would be.  But it hasn't stopped completely as some of the LEF probably would have thought - unless they have forgotten about it  The ch

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as the early S1/2 used the antirollbar arms as part of the wishbone (I guess you mean it this way..) there was some "flex" in the bushes and in the arm anyway ..so what ever you do it will be more 'precisely' than the previous construction.

 

To the point of measurements on the old chassis-types ..go there into Facebook -and get in contact with the Lotus F1 Esprit S3R project guy (the one with the DIY fabricated Esprit 'tube chassis' ..he is also in here in the forum if you see. 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/F1-Motorsports-Lotus-Esprit-S3R/178516808826230?ref=ts&fref=ts

 

He should have a lot of measurement on at least S3 & S4 -as he modified first the old chassis, and even created a whole new one.

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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very interesting mod...  i would like to have that myself on my early S3

 

im no suspension expert but i can tell you most modern production car have the the A-arm converging (in side veiw) towards the center of the car below the CG.  this point which is referred as the instant center gives it an anti-dive effect under hard braking to conteract sprung weight transfer.  for instance the early 308 didnt have very much or any anti-dive while the 328 they did add this feature in.   adding too much will cause the suspension to bind on ecessive travel if as i recall.  can any suspension expert chime in?

 

regards

 

pp

Edited by pyropolymer
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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm about to embark on a similar swap.. I'm in Denmark and I've found an s1 in the us and have a heads and cam ls1 .. Anyway I have looked into that very suspension swap and I would recommend making the front mound adjustable so you could move the mounting point laterally to adjust the castor angle..

Anti dive adjustments would envolve changing the angle of the upper control arm pivot axis in relation to horizontal...

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@Jacob -not sure what it is with the S1 that you know .. but camber & castor on the Esprit front-end is controlled by the shims there on the upper arm, and the ones packed side to side with the top ball-joint ..at least it is this way on all the later SE/S4ff* cars

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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@gunther.. I stand corrected, the s1 I have still has the Opel manta/Ascona upper control arms...

I have another question though... Where do you mount the new era upper control rods... The early chassis has no provisions ...any pictures ??

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just take a look into the SE/S4 workshop-manual, all the parts drawings are there too

 

..or simply try this: (S4-series ..'98 on)

30_01medium.gif

 

31_01medium.gif

31_03medium.gif

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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Good photos - easy to see what "is going on".

Thanks Travis - I'm collecting all sorts of information and pictures at the moment, to find possible pitfalls before stumbeling into them :D

So I'm gateful for all the posts here as well - from you and others.

Going to adapt and weld the front pivot point for the front lower control arms one of these days, and then the chassis can be put on its wheels for the first time in quite a lot of years.  (Don't want to count them) :no

 

Cheers to you all

 

Geir

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a question.. Will the later controll arms fit an early s1 chassis (except the mounting point for the rear upper controll arm of course) is it in other words possible to install theater controll arms (as done in this thread on an s3 chassis) on an s1?

I know there will be fabricating involved and having built a chassis before I'm not deterred from that part of it...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Jakob

I'm afraid I haven't studied the S1 suspension in detail, as mine is an S3 version. I just know that the S1 had the front upper suspension and the steering from the Opel Ascona/Manta A.  And those arms are totally different from the later Triumph sourced ones.

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  • 1 year later...

The progress of this project is even slower than I thought it would be.  But it hasn't stopped completely as some of the LEF probably would have thought - unless they have forgotten about it  :P

The chassis itself and the suspension parts are now ready and the build up has started.

 

Here a couple of pictures of the S350 bearing housings during and after the sanding / polishing.

Bakhjulspindel01_zps748fcc0f.jpg

 

Bakhjulspindel07_zpse8c483f0.jpg

Did take some time to get these parts shining, but they both look better this way (IMO) and I believe there is less danger of stress cracks too.

 

And the rear chassis ready built up - with original Lotus shocks and springs and PU bushings.

Bakstilling05_zpsbade8c5a.jpg

 

Bakstilling06_zpsf25b60b1.jpg

 

 

The front suspension hooked up - also with Lotus shocks/springs, but with rod ends for the inner points.  Easier adjustment that way.  The lower anchoring points have normal bushings though.

Forstilling52_zps26fda819.jpg

 

 

 

Within a couple of weeks the chassis will be standing on its wheels, and I can start mocking up the engine-transmission combo to build the mountings.

 

I have also gathered the plugs to connect the various senders and the coil packs to the ECU.  The senders are present on the engine but I need to build a engine harness...

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@ Simon

Yes it IS a bit frustrating.  But on the other hand, some of the projects that are keeping me from working on the Lotus are interesting also :-)  Building a Honda XR500R cafe racer / street fighter is the most fun.  And it's working like this:  When I discover that I need some parts for the Lotus, I can do something on the Honda. And the other way around.  The MC engine needed a lot more parts than anticipated, since I found there was missing a tooth from the primary drive, one from the kick drive and five from the clutch...

And since I'm using a 1984 engine on a 1981 frame I needed to make my own engine mountings...

 

But to me the construction and "investigation" to find solutions are part of the fun with projects like these.  But even so, I wouldn't mind a faster progress :P

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  • 6 months later...
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Brakes update

I have wondered for some time about how to install the right brakes to this Lotus.  As said before I've promised the authorities to use the brake setup from an S350.  And the four calipers I've bought are all original front items off a TVR Cerbera 4.2 which incidentally are the same AP part number as the front S350 ones.  They will be lightly ground in my old Beaver mill to remove the TVR logos and installed Lotus ones.

But when it comes to discs I've been thinking:  The S350 har special made bells and rotors from AP Racing, with the Lotus specific bolt pattern for the wheels and a spcially ordered bolt pattern for the bell to rotor mounting. This means that they (AP or Lotus) can charge "what they want" for replacement parts.  Since I had to buy complete discs - and make caliper brackets - anyway I first investigated into other cars that had the same wheel bolt pattern and disc size, and bought a pair of Jaguar S-type R-spec discs to measure.  They did fit the bearing, but the centre hole was too large (easily fixed with an alu ring) and there was no provision for the disc retaining bolts.  These are not really necessary as the disc will be clamped between the bearing and the wheel, but I wanted to have it for extra "protection" anyway.

So the solution to all this was to ask a brake specialist in the UK to make me a set of bells/hats made from top grade aluminium and with the following specs:

Standard Lotus fitment to the wheel/hub
Standard AP Racing fitment to the *("medium" sized) rotor.

This means that when the time comes to replace worn or warped rotors they can be bought off the shelf from any company that deals in AP products.  When at it I also bought a set of rotors from the same company - that they made themselves - at considerable less money than the AP ones.  If they show up to be lower quality they can be replaced with standard AP items with no problem.

With the Beaver mill I have it would have been possible to make the bells myself, but I see that these critical items bay be good for peace of mind to have done in a secure way by experts.

As I've written before: this project seems to be dragging out for a long time - I'm now in the process of building a new home, with 170 square meters of workshop in the ground floor - but it will NEVER stop. That's a promise :P

 

WP_20150916_002.jpg

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  • 3 months later...

Don't know if I should post our housing project as part of my Esprit build log, but in a way it IS part of the build!  I see elsewhere on this forum that there is a discussion about in- and outdoors parking space on your own land, and space to go on with the Esprit and other projects has been an important part of our discussions before going into this build.

We have today a place with a nice house, a separate garage / workshop of around 70 square meters and driveway parking for two cars – three in a squeeze.  But since I'm constantly working on and restoring cars and lately also motorcycles, space is still at a premium.  When you disassemble a car it takes lots of space suddenly...

I've been searching for some time for a place where there is more space for this hobby that I'm not going to give up in a hurry.  A year ago we found a large plot with only an old 130 square meter two floor barn on it  - and me and my wife both agreed that that place was very good.  It's in the outskirts of our home town, above and overlooking part of the water way of Telemark.  We got permission to convert the barn to a combined house and workshop / garage, with the living quarters upstairs and 130 square meters of "motor space" downstairs – plus a 40 square meters of "motor cycle basement".

 

MeglerSydvest.jpg

MeglerSydvesthjornet.jpg

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It will be well isolated and with both floors heated by a water-to-water "heat pump".  And there is more than enough space on the plot to build a separate garage for 3-5 cars and the tractor and equipment.

Thinking that this might be a good starting point for Lotus owners from abroad who plan to go sports car touring in Norway.  Our region has very spectacular roads – so watch this space :-)

But don't hold your breath as it will probably take a couple of years – and in the mean time I won't be able to work much on the Lotus.  However some evenings is used to find solutions and to get the parts needed for the build.

 

The downside is that with the budget we have we have to do most of the building ourselves.  So after buying the place, I bought an old Volvo BM tractor with a back hoe, but this will be sold as soon as the project is finished.  For snow clearing and other local transport needs I also bought a small International Harvester tractor and a dump trailer that I intend to keep.

Now I'm digging deep around the perimeter of the building to make the concrete foundation for new isolated walls and new concrete basement floor.

 

It will be well isolated and with both floors heated by a water-to-water "heat pump".  And there is more than enough space on the plot to build a separate garage for 3-5 cars and the tractor and equipment.

Thinking that this might be a good starting point for Lotus owners from abroad who plan to go sports car touring in Norway.  Our region has very spectacular roads – so watch this space :-)

But don't hold your breath as it will probably take a couple of years – and in the mean time I won't be able to work much on the Lotus.  However some evenings is used to find solutions and to get the parts needed for the build.

 

WP_20150328_007.jpg

WP_20150822_011.jpg

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4 minutes ago, saggitarius said:

Thinking that this might be a good starting point for Lotus owners from abroad who plan to go sports car touring in Norway.  Our region has very spectacular roads – so watch this space :-)

This nearly happened this year Geir:

I don't think that it will now, but perhaps next year, or the year after, when your garage is finished... B-)

I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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That is an amazing looking home Geir ,  I think it is a great idea to be able to combine your home and your passion for restoring cars and bikes.and at the same time be able to get those views and a home on stunning land.

A couple of years will fly by and at least you can like you said plan,collect parts etc, 

Keep some pics of the building work coming and also any bits you get for the lotus build.

regards Danny

 

A

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