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Credit Crunched Orders

Cancelled Orders  

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Spoke to a Lotus enthusiast last week who cannot imagine taking delivery of his car due to financial situation. Hasn't cancelled though.

Same with me and I haven't cancelled... just in case.

I'm not sure anybody knows the situation.

Please poll..... truthfully !!

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Guest EBORA

I've been wondering whether any deposit money would be at risk. If a dealer were to close/declared bankrupt then deposits would be lost or are the monies deposited with Lotus direct?

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depends on the deposit you were asked for.

Lotus themselves ask for 2000 GBP / 2500 EU. So this sum has to be with Lotus to secure your order and build slot.

If (and apparently there were some...) a dealer asked for a higher deposit, it is within the dealers responsibility.

well... not the very best time to bring a crucial-for-company-life car onto the market, but let's wait and see. I'd consider GM going bankrupt way earlier than Proton :o

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Back in June I was saying that all deposits must be made with a credit card - that provides full protection in the event that a dealer or even Lotus collapse. If you made your deposit by card, your money should be safe.

In a way, Lotus are lucky that the crunch is happening 12 months or so before cars appear on forecourts. They don't have the prestige image of someone like Ferrari (who have been taking deposits for the California as fast as they can be laid down - they're claiming the first 2000, next year's entire allocation, are already sold). So, the Evora probably won't sell until the reviews hit (assuming they're positive) and people can judge just what they're getting for their money. Reading between the lines, I don't think Lotus are planning a full 2000 cars for next year (pro-rata) as they won't have models they can sell to all markets - in particular the US. So, a smaller initial production run and some time for people to recover from the financial shocks may mean that they can ease into production without any nasty surprises.

Whilst the credit crunch will discourage people who planned to stretch themselves to upgrade from their Elise, it may equally encourage people who would otherwise have gone for a slightly more expensive model to consider something more efficient. Though the markets will have been hurting some, there will be some traders who are coining it in right now - not that anyone's about to advertise the fact.

We won't know until the car is on forecourts just how well it will do. Pre-orders are probably rather thin on the ground right now (not least because the Evora isn't getting much publicity at the moment). I'm sure Lotus are going to be watching world events with some concern, but right now they aren't at the stage of expecting big cash flows - until cars can be sold, they're committed to spending rather than earning. Given their place in the market, I'd not expect the majority of sales to happen until the car can prove itself on test drives and on the forecourt.

Personally, my experience of the M250 put me off placing deposits in advance. Besides the fact that I lost my deposit when the project was cancelled, there were already some questions in my head about the spec of the final car. The original proposition sounded ideal, but there were hints in the demo models that the design had a few issues and might not have been the sort of car I actually wanted. Coming to the Evora, I'm very excited about the car, but won't put down a deposit until I've satisfied myself that it's the car for me - a full test drive will be necessary.

Here's a quick additional bit of info,

Year to date, Lotus are 4% up on 2007 sales figures. That compares with Porsche (27% down) and Aston Martin (24% down).

http://www.am-online.com/NewCarSalesFigures/

Make of that what you will - at the moment the companies are in different parts of the market, but Lotus are not suffering, whilst their competitors most definately are.

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I truly agree. Whereas I at first thought that the time gap between presentation and availability is suicidal, I now think this might just be good for Lotus to overcome the recent economic issues. And right, I myself know quite some people who are not too keen to deposit money on something they haven't seen, test-driven or do not have exact specs for. On the other hand Lotus is a subsidiary of Proton, which is partly state-owned, so the credit crunch should not really impact. How much does it matter whether Lotus is profitable ? OK, Proton wouldn't like losses, but I think there is no real danger of Lotus disappearing from the market.

The quoted statistics however might be misleading as it is only sales for one country - I consider this normal fluctuation for a small-volume manufacturer. What really matters are production figures overall (since Lotus normally doesn't pile up products) and they are going south: MY07: ca. 3500 cars, MY08: ca. 2300 cars. This is... not good.

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I agree with Tuna's take on it. I also think there's another factor in play, at least for me: the impact of the current economic situation on availability and prices for used alternatives to an Evora. There've been some posts elsewhere about Vantages and DB9s at knock down prices - looking tempting to me but might wait till Jan and see if they drop even further. Plus I read a stat recently that in w/c 22 Sept, 734 used Ferraris came onto the market in the UK - 734 in a week! I've no idea how that compares with a "normal" week, but seems like a lot.

Re deposits, it doesn't matter whether your dealer passed

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I'd consider GM going bankrupt way earlier than Proton :o

GM would go under if it were not for FED government assistance!

Re deposits, it doesn't matter whether your dealer passed

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Text below is from latest revisions to evora website. http://www.facelesspeople.com/

They are saying deposit is not refundable. I paid mine on the condition that it was.

Comments ?

"is now accepting orders from its European Evora Dealer Network for the new Evora vehicle. If you are interested in placing an order for an Evora please contact one of our Evora Dealers. Only Dealers whose details appear on the map above are authorised to place orders for the Evora.

Evora Dealers are

Edited by yztop

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Tom is correct here.

Your dealer has made a non refundable prepayment of

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Having just come back from my Hols I've missed most of the stock market movements etc which is probably a good thing - those Rum Rummers don't drink themselves you know! :o

My deposit is refundable from Christopher Neil - I have a piece of paper from them stating exactly that and to be honest may not have made the order in August if I didn't have that re-assurance.

I'm just as concerned as everyone else about the credit crunch although I guess I'm looking at this a little differently. To me, there are two key dates when I have to make decision...

1. When I have to spec the the Evora up - which again depends on the cost of the car and options. Up until this point my

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I would love the UK economic problems to be over next September. Taking Real House prices as a arbitary indicator.

Price Crash 1989 Peak to Trough drop 39% over 8 years. Time to recover to same price. 12 years.

Based on similar level, prices peaked in August 2007 and will bottom out in 2013 going back up to same level by 2018.

All theoretical stuff until the normal bullish estate agents released this report.

http://www.business24-7.ae/articles/2008/1...6bb6ac7f51.aspx

Its not in their interests to publish this but quality estate agents have research departments !

"The UK economy is contracting; it would be farcical not to expect an upswing in unemployment," said Jamie Dannhauser, British economist for Lombard Street Research, who predicts the unemployment rate will rise to 6.5% by the middle of next year.

E, in the previous quote states "Like I lose my job"

Nobody believes what happend 20 years ago will happen again.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/business/news/d...f_recession.php

Late last week, the Inter-national Monetary Fund warned that the UK was likely to tumble into a full-blown recession. It sharply reduced its growth forecast for the UK, and the reduction was greater than that for any other major country. The UK projection indicates a recession almost comparable in severity to that in the early 1990s. The IMF also warned that unemployment was likely to rise sharply to around 6% next year.

If the Lotus Evora can buck the recession then the score will be Great Britain 1 - Rest of the World 0

I would like to rerun this pole at the end of January

Edited by yztop

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Well...

To help my dreams come true I have just taken redundancy from a job I thought was a job for life..... Guess no where is safe any more...!!

I intend to go self employed and earn


Chunky Lover

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My wife's re-training as an insolvency practitioner!!

When I mutter about ambulance chasing or make nee-naw noises, she throws things at me :o

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I'm selling houses.

What about all exec homes get a free evora in the garage.

Any takers ?

PS

(dont tell the misses that the free evora replaces the

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Are you actually selling houses or is it that you used to sell houses??? :o

Now I see why all the worry, I hope you aren't hit too badly - not sure what else to say it's not great out there. Do you sell as in estate agent or are you a builder? I take it you must have sold/built a lot if you're rolling around in a 997.

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Used to sell houses...... sounds about right

...as a developer. Low volume and high price which to be fair is somewhat insulated. If it was flats then I wouldnt be able to afford broadband connection to reply.

My actual background is general business management and economics.

As well as being interested in the evora car I would love to know the market economics for the introduction of the car in the declining market. All on this board seem to think they will still shift the numbers despite the economy. That would mean the original pricing was below customer expectations which I'm not too sure about. Even the Rock solid Audi R8 is nose diving.

If you own it, how much is the value of your S3 below expectations. How safe is your job or your bonus?

Edited by yztop

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Well, unfortunately the current situation has caught up with me and I've had to cancel my order. With the company I work for making a profits warning and knowing what's likely in the next few months I don't really have a choice - my family have to come first and it's a risk I don't feel I can take at the moment.

Thanks go to Christopher Neill for the way they refunded the deposit with no problems - I'd do business with them again.

Best of luck to every else and lets hope I'm the only one this happens too!!

With any luck things won't be as bad as I suspect and I'll be back in the market in 12 months.

Cheers all

Paul

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:o Sorry to hear that Pauly but it's good that CN are good to their word.

Good luck with work.


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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Hi Paul,

Sorry to hear that, but as you say at times like this the family has to come first. Unfortunately I suspect you will not be the only cancelled order. Anyway I hope the work situation turns out OK.

You have to feel a bit sorry for Lotus and the dealers with the timing of the cars release in the middle of the credit crunch. Many people are more worried about keeping their jobs than buying new cars, credit for new cars is also expensive. For those people who do have spare cash then the drop in prices of second hand cars makes for some tempting alternatives to buying a new Evora. Aston V8 Vantages are now sub

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