Replacing Manifold on S4 insitu?

[superdavelotus 124]

Hi everyone,

Has anyone replaced their exhaust manifold with engine insitu by themselves?

I have the unfortunate job of doing this on the S4.

Do you have any pictures and instructions please?

[Jonathan 13]

From where I have the car atm - it doesn't look that impossible tbh.

BTW the camera really has a red problem, the red-oxide is no where near as bad as that irl.

I have been looking at mine to see if it's ok as well along with trying (and failing) to get something on the radius arm fixing.

If you take the bottom tray off along with what I've done here I reakon you could have a go at it.

The oil sump to turbo pipe might have to come off which sits just under the manifold (braided) With the hub etc off you can slide right in there. The only other worry is the heat shiled on the chassis which stops the manifold melting the radius arm rubber.

Is it a bad leak or can you suffer it until a next major service ?

[Advantage 910]

Many (many!) years ago I did a manifold on my old SE with the engine in situ. Everything is fairly straightforward (access problems aside) but you do have to remove the engine mount to allow some more space and "jiggling" room. This also allows you to lift or lower the engine via a trolley jack to give you any required clearance of the chassis rails.

Your biggest potential problem on an S4 (mainly because of the age of the car) will be breaking manifold studs and turbo studs. Turbo studs will be no biggie, because you'll be able to attend to these on the bench.

A broken manifold stud could cause you a severe headache, though. LOTS of wd40 etc before and during nut removal might give you a fighting chance of getting away with it!

I have heard of people being able to remove/repair broken studs without removing the head, though.

Luckily, I am yet to experience that.

[Vulcan Grey 251]

Many (many!) years ago I did a manifold on my old SE with the engine in situ.  Everything is fairly straightforward (access problems aside) but you do have to remove the engine mount to allow some more space and "jiggling" room.  This also allows you to lift or lower the engine via a trolley jack to give you any required clearance of the chassis rails.

Your biggest potential problem on an S4 (mainly because of the age of the car) will be breaking manifold studs and turbo studs.  Turbo studs will be no biggie, because you'll be able to attend to these on the bench. 

A broken manifold stud could cause you a severe headache, though.  LOTS of wd40 etc before and during nut removal might give you a fighting chance of getting away with it!

I have heard of people being able to remove/repair broken studs without removing the head, though.

Luckily, I am yet to experience that.

I've done it too. A couple of times. Not that hard with a variety of tools. The turbo can be difficult to remove due to access and rusted nuts. Remove the rear trunk floor to make access much easier.

[Jonathan 13]

Can you not just go for safety and get a nut breaker / splitter ?

Can't remember their location from memory on the manifold and indeed if this would work but would be my 1st line of thought to simply split them instead of trying. Warming it up might help too ?

[superdavelotus 124]

Right got manifold off tonight. It was a complete pain in the arse.

The pictures of Jonthon's car show a nice easy access to nuts on the first two cylinders. Jonathon try getting a spanner to the other end, it's pretty hard.

Also I've noticed a huge difference between US and UK owners. From what I've read, US owners have no problem getting the nuts off which I think is down to the climate. You only have to look at the owners section of LEW and you can easily sopt the UK car, they are full of rust, even the news ones!!!!

Had to take the turbo off with manifold.

I found the longest bit, taking the heatshields off to allow manifold to come out. There's hidden bolts everwhere and about 4 seperate heatshields!

Engine mount has to come out too.

Also had to take water and oil feeds from turbo along with wastegate actuator housing to get the lot through the gap at the top.

It's a job I hope never to do again!!

BTW, I have no knuckles left and I have muscles like popeye! Iam not used to manual labour, Iam a pen pusher!

[s4simon 153]

Well that didn't take long at all Dave (well, not long for us )

Which version are you going to put on.

The SW Lotus version - below (Slightly heavier and stronger)

or the more expensive real Lotus one ?? which only lasts 45k

[andrewp1989 1]

I have done this in-situ on my 1989 and it is tedious but POSSIBLE.

I found that by removing the manifold studs (at the head) I gained 1-2 cm of "jiggle room" for the manifold. That tiny amount allowed the piece to be removed from below without significant changes/lifting/stress. As I recall, even the heatshields stayed in place.

AP

[Jonathan 13]

Dave, I sympathise - I'm going to do mine when the engine comes out next year sometime to do some other stuff - taking it out in situe looks like a pain in the rear.

[superdavelotus 124]

I have gone for SW one which I already have. Iam only working on the car 1-2 hours a day inbetween my work.

Need to clean up the faces and fit the turbo studs then hopefully refit. I plan to have the manifold on and the engine mount today and finish off over the weekend.

I thought the pterol tank removal was the hardest job I've undertaken but this tops it! My technical abilities only extend to taking parts off and back on again, no engine work!

[Kato 0]

Dave, hope you're taking plenty of pictures and are planning a guide like you did for the tanks. Would be a great additional to LEW and I'm sure my future owners as well as current would be grateful.

[lince 1]

s4simon where can I find the The SW Lotus version and how much is it??

[s4simon 153]

It's a UK mob used by a lot of us over here + if you're a member of LEW you get an extra 5% discount.

South West Lotus Centre

Around 450 (UK pounds).

read all about them here.

LEW - Manifold types

[Kato 0]

Believe it or not, it's all on LEW! (well not a guide, waiting on Dave for that!)

http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EMaintenance/manifold.html

And if you're a ClubLEW Member, you get 5% off!

[superdavelotus 124]

Hi Kato and all,

Didn't take any picture due to me being totally pissed off with the news on Monday. Just wanted to get the car fixed.

New manifold is back on albeit just need to tighten one nut out of 12.

Then it's engine mount back on

Turbo back on with feed pipes which wiil be a nightmare.

Heat shields back on.

DeCAT pipe back on.

Other bits and bobs.

BTw everyone, the bust manifold is the latest one from Lotus with the webs in. This must have been done once before but it didn't last very long. Will check the service records to see what there.

A caution note to add about the SW manifolds, space between casting is tighter making new nuts harder to get on. Two nuts wouldn't turn because casting was in the way.

A plus point about their manifolds is that they fit like a glove! All holes lined up with studs so it went on easy!

Kato, I could take pictures from now and maybe we can find some picture for the before shots. Maybe, Jonathon can take some of his?

[Paul C 15]

Steve Williams did mine in situ.

Guess it's one of those things that if you've done it 100's of

times, you know whats gonna happen. Of course the man was

not daft enough to promise he could do it engine in, after all,

theres no way of knowing if the studs are ready to die...

[s4simon 153]

Steve Williams did mine in situ. 

He did mine as well.

And when I went back to pick the car up I asked if any studs broke during removal.

Yeah, a few - he said. No big problem though.

Glad I had it changed here and not other far off country.

[Jonathan 13]

Maybe, Jonathon can take some of his?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nicely passed there

I don't mind, although my good camera is at the doctors atm so I'll have to use the naff one I have which I can't seem to stop it taking flash.

Do I need to take the undertray off ?

What parts do you want pictured ?

Hoping to have the suspension re-built by sunday so lemme know quickly !

[superdavelotus 124]

No need to take undertray off, just as many pics as you can showing as much of the manifold as possible. I don't know if you can not show any red from your car so we can merge the two pictures togther. Also need one of the engine mount and one of the turbo.

Thanks Jonathon!

[glynherron 9]

Hi Guys

Well mine's started blowing but can't see any evidence of cracking.

But it sounds nothing like an exhaust blowing - I'm struggling to describe it.

Something else that is wierd - the noise becomes much less when it is hot. I would have thought that as the manifold got hot that it would expand and the blow would be greater??

I'm guessing at a knackered manifold gasket??

Dave, when you did yours were you on a ramp or on the floor - how accessible from the floor is it and what ground clearance did you have. Didi you remove al the manifold nuts from underneath? My garage at the moment is full of the V8 I'm repairing !!

Last question: at a motor factors recently I saw a penetrating fluid that I'd not seen before. It was some sort of freeze spray to put on the studs. Anyone ever used it? Would you recommend over other poducts you have tried?

Thanks

Glyn

ps I can take photos along the way and do a write up for Kato if no-ones done one yet

[glynherron 9]

Well it turns out that its blowing between the manifold and the head on the port closest to the turbo.

The manifold is fastened to the head by 2 bolts? and 1 stud/nut

So far the stud/nut is out (the stud came out with the nut), and 1 of the bolts.

The remaining bold is dead tight. If it doesn't shear off what do you think the chances are of just fitting 1 new gasket and not disturbing the rest of the manifold?

I thought I read somewhere that the studs/nuts were stainless - well mine certainly aren't !!

Fingers crossed

Glyn

[cbclotus 521]

HI all had my manifold replaced last year and made in stainless steel by a friend local to me in exeter ,i helped if you can call it that getting in his way underneath car watching etc ,sprayed manifold with plus gas etc before trying to get old manifold off,some nuts came off but they were all badly rusted .so he used a dremmell type tool to cut through nuts ,sounds painfull.i was lucky that we could get the manifold off this way i think it took about 12 hours ,he could not belive they were not stainless steel when new ,they are now good luck mike s3

[Callaway 0]

Hi Guys

Well mine's started blowing but can't see any evidence of cracking.

But it sounds nothing like an exhaust blowing - I'm struggling to describe it.

Something else that is wierd - the noise becomes much less when it is hot. I would have thought that as the manifold got hot that it would expand and the blow would be greater??

I'm guessing at a knackered manifold gasket??

Dave, when you did yours were you on a ramp or on the floor - how accessible from the floor is it and what ground clearance did you have. Didi you remove al the manifold nuts from underneath? My garage at the moment is full of the V8 I'm repairing !!

Last question: at a motor factors recently I saw a penetrating fluid that I'd not seen before. It was some sort of freeze spray to put on the studs. Anyone ever used it? Would you recommend over other poducts you have tried?

Thanks

Glyn

ps I can take photos along the way and do a write up for Kato if no-ones done one yet

Glyn,

Does it sound like an exhaust leak? When I start my S4 cold it sounds very similiar to an exhaust leak and is very loud (kind of embarrasing, doesn't fit the whole exotic look ). Once the car warms up, the sound goes almost completely away (very hard to hear, I can only hear it just a tad if im right by a fence, even then its almost hard to make it out anymore once the car has warmed up). I've been wondering if this had to do with the manifold for awhile but haven't had time to get under the car and snoop around.

-Callaway

1994 Esprit S4

[glynherron 9]

Glyn,

Does it sound like an exhaust leak? When I start my S4 cold it sounds very similiar to an exhaust leak and is very loud (kind of embarrasing, doesn't fit the whole exotic look ). Once the car warms up, the sound goes almost completely away (very hard to hear, I can only hear it just a tad if im right by a fence, even then its almost hard to make it out anymore once the car has warmed up). I've been wondering if this had to do with the manifold for awhile but haven't had time to get under the car and snoop around.

-Callaway

1994 Esprit S4

Were you listening to my Esprit?

Yep, exactly as you described, but the more time that passed the louder it became.

Really glad the bolts / studs came out!!

Glyn

[Callaway 0]

Were you listening to my Esprit?

Yep, exactly as you described, but the more time that passed the louder it became.

Really glad the bolts / studs came out!!

Glyn

Glyn,

Did you take and pictures of your process btw? If you did I would love to see them, being that if this is my problem it looks like I will be doing the process soon ! Thanks!

-Callaway

1994 Esprit S4

Also wanted to add, would a knackered manifold gasket cause any cold start problems? I've been chasing one since I bought the car. When you start it cold it stumbles and dies. If you ease on the gas it will try to die and then the revs will jump back up, if you hit the gas too hard it will die again. Once you've applied a little gas or waited about 30 seconds just letting it jump around, it smooths out and everything is fine until it has sat for about 5 hours or so. Any thoughts?

-Callaway

1994 Esprit S4