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V8 2002 / AP caliper bleeding - Suspension/Brakes/Wheels/Hubs/Steering/Geo - The Lotus Forums #ForTheOwners Jump to content


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Just fitted the monster setup to the car however I'm really strugging to bleed the system.

I'm 1/2 wondering whether the Delco ABS/Master cylinder is at fault but basically I've just spent the last Hour 30mins going back and forth trying to get the air out (2 litres of fluid in the process)

Each caliper has 2 bleed screws on them and I've tried bleeding from both but no real joy until I switched the car on, let the pump pressurise and de-pressurise.

The pedal is now as it was (more travel, I guess because there is more flow of fluid into the larger calipers) correct feel and ample pressure but I'm still getting air out ?!?

Anyone experienced issues with them ?

Not the 1st time I've had hassle with AP bleeding to be honest, the Elise was a nightmare.

Edited by Jonathan

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I had no real bother with mine, but my car has the later KH master. I'm not up to speed on how the earlier stuff works, but it's not unheard of on other makes of car to need the engine running (or at least ign on) to get pumps etc activated to get a proper bleed. Unless you've completely drained the reservoir you shouldn't be having issues with the master and pedal travel should be similar to before, if anything slightly less.

Which bleed screw are you opening first? Start with the outside of the lh caliper, then inside lh - then outside rh, then inside rh.

Are you absolutely 100% certain there isn't one joint not tight enough and consequently letting air in? Are you using an Ezibleed type system?

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Yeah this is the worry for me, I dunno anyone who has these calipers on the delco system.

The front brakes work as any other master system, basically when the ignition is on a pump provides pressure for assist so it should be as striaght forward as anything.

I bled them inside out...pumping the pedal sharpy expells all the air but once you seal it back up and after a few pumps you can still get more out...A LOT more.

Cant find any leaks either, from what I recal bleeding the brembos was easy as anything so I can't see why this is arsing around.

I'll leave it for a while and road test it when there is less ice about LOL - keep an eye for any puddles appearing.

One solid line didn't go in perfectly straight but it's holding under 2800 psi so I'm fairly sure it's sealed :ph34r:

I dont like the ezibleed system much - plus you can't use it on the Delco as the reservoir is nothing like a normal shape - you can push the fluid back but I had this issue with AP calipers on the Elise and ended up chasing my tail all over the place. Need to invest in a vacuum system.

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Just a thought not knowing the calipers, but you do have them on the right way round and the bleed nipples at the upper most point?

Roger (A friend once put the right caliper on the left and the left on the right, so the bleed nipples were at the botom, and spent the next 2 days trying to get the air out)

Just a thought

Roger

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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The easiest way is to have the engine running and have an assistant "pump the brake pedal",whilst you start from the inner nipples first then the outer nipple on the caliper furthest away from the reservoir( longest brake pipe run). then the next shortest run, untill you end up at the shortest.

I,e n/s/r then o/s/r then n/s/f then finally o/s/f. Keeping the fluid level topped up throughout.

Hopefully this should sort out the pedal.

Occasionally you have to invert the front calipers to remove any troublesome air bubbles trapped in the connecting pipe.

Yorkshire's only Main dealer Lotus technician.

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Yep they're the right way around.

Tried sucking the oil through using a large syringe, same issue, loads of air but then again this could be coming throught the threads on the bleed screws.

Strange thing is there is a LOT of air and I cannot for the life of me work out where the heck it is coming from.

If there was a leak and the fluid would be badly leaking out - the pedal holds firm for ages and there is no sound or sign of leaks around any of the joins, fluid level OK.

If there trully was air in the system I surely would not be getting the pedal feel as solid, I've had brakes before where the fluid is airiated and the pedal just thumps to the floor, with mine I need a lot of force to do that.

Very strange, I feel confident to take it on the road but in anyones experience have they ever known a braking system to seem fine on the jacks and then go tits up on the road ?

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The pedal is now as it was (more travel, I guess because there is more flow of fluid into the larger calipers) correct feel and ample pressure but I'm still getting air out ?!?

The extra travel has nothing to do with the caliper size, it's either the amount of travel of the pads before they contact the disc or it's down to the air in the system.

I'm 1/2 wondering whether the Delco ABS/Master cylinder is at fault but basically I've just spent the last Hour 30mins going back and forth trying to get the air out (2 litres of fluid in the process)

You can re-use the fluid after letting it settle overnight.

Strange thing is there is a LOT of air and I cannot for the life of me work out where the heck it is coming from.

From your description it's got to be a problem with the master cylinder.

Cheers,

John W

http://jonwatkins.co.uk

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Very strange, I feel confident to take it on the road but in anyones experience have they ever known a braking system to seem fine on the jacks and then go tits up on the road ?

That's a risk you most certainly shouldn't be taking with your life and other people's. Make sure the brakes are 100% before you take the car on the road. If you want a hand, let me know and I'll pop over and help. :ph34r:

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Not exactly going to take it on the motorway, I wouldn't take it out unless I was confident - I cant honestly see / feel any issue with the pedal, you have to really push hard to push the pedal more than 1/2 way.

When I've bled the system the air does stop and pump neat oil, however if you bang the pedal a few times the pedal stays the same resistance (ie how it should be) - re-bleeding it burps a LOT of air out again - about 20-30ml. 10ml in a system is enough to cause brake failure so I dunno whether it is an inherint thing in the calipers.

Over 100 pedal pressures it never changes in feel, I cant understand it myself. Cant see my master cylinder has failed over night due to no wear, the fluid is brand new, there's no leaks or level loss.

I can remember my Elise was like this, we tried for hours to bleed it but the pedal was always slack as Alice, we had the calipers off, brake lines inspected, everything !

Then I left it overnight with the bleed screws slightly loose and it was fine.

Just wondered if someone had come across this quirk before.

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You could do the old gravity bleed. To better seal the threads of the bleeder screw a little Hylomar always works for me when using the vacuum method. With the gravity method, while you have the screws open you can "tap" on the calipers to dislodge trapped air bubbles.

Best,

Jeff

www.espritturbo.com

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