Villified Americans - True or false

[Kimbers]

Hi all,

You may know me from such posts as "Lotus Anecdotes" and "Male, 38 and musclebound looking for similar female for fun/friendship"......actually, that was another site!

Anyway. Today at work discussions got around to a subject that annoys me and I wished to share it with you all and throw it open to discussion.

It started with someone saying "bloody Americans" during a news broadcast on their/your attitude to peace in the Middle East. It seems that, more and more, the American public are getting blamed for a hard line, slightly decrepid and definately unforgiving President who has made his name by blowing off the Kyoto Accord and invading Iraq on the back of a "Watch it he's got a gun!!" attitude when actually all he had was a pea shooter and some spittle covered balls of paper. Not that I blame anyone. Most of us here fell for it aswell and I think you can see the fall out in that no one really trusts anything Blair says anymore.

My argument is this. I know that the majority of Americans are like anyone else, working to earn a living, bringing up our kids as well as we can (which is hard with political correctness going mad over here) and having a set of personal values similar to anyone in the world. I have American friends, Afro Carribean friends, Indian friends, Malaysian friends, friends that I don't know where they come from! and they have pretty much the same morals/personal goals and as anyone else.

Unfortunately the anti American feeling in much of the world is growing but I for one love America (especially Vegas....and LA) where us Brits are welcomed...nay loved for our "cute accents" and bigger Penis's ( ...maybe thats just me.....)by the women and even let off by the cops for speeding because....well...we're British

Maybe someone has a reason why? Lets face it, Us (The British) have stuck our noses into more places than the Americans in the past yet come out of it with just a cross look.

This is Tony Kimberley for Esprit Forum news saying....something.....

[Paul C]

"Male, 38 and musclebound looking for similar female for fun/friendship"

Mmm... tell me more!!!!

Threads like this have popped up on the fora from time to time.

I fear it will all start light hearted but then turn, but i could be wrong.

[WayneB]

Having just returned from the U.S. these are my observations.

They are very "Them and Us" at the moment (Them being any body from outside the U.S. including ,Great Britain there biggest allie in the Iraq war)

This attitude was particulary noticable at the boarder crossing in Detroit, where I can honestly say I was treated quite badly (even by there standards)

I got the impression I was supposed to confess being a drug runner/terrorist/illiegal worker under the rude and insulting vocal barrage from the staff.

Note to American public, people like me and tourists spend rather alot of money in your country, and if this is how it is going to be, maybe we wont bother any more.

One of my friends is so sick of there war mongering stance, he has sold his condo in Florida, and refuses to travel there.( Some jerk in Florida called him a "F*ckin Traitor" (Apparently, this guy noticed the Ontario license plates on his car, and was upset by the fact we didnt join them in Iraq)

But not all Americans are displaying this bad attitude, I have many friends there who do nothing but appologise for the inconsiderate actions of their fellow countrymen.

Thank god I live in Canada

[JRTurbo909]

*well I agree to some of the comments below and edited to remove some of my personal opinions*

I feel that the impression most people have of our country is a rather poor one as of this moment (not that I can really blame them). Its sad too because a lot of the middle eastern-americans here are getting treated very badly recently. An Indian friend was mistakenly called a "piece-of-sh*t persian" at a local market by some ignorant schmuck the other day. He certainly let that guy have an ear-full though. Very frustrating since most of Sadaam's weapons and training came from us during the whole Iran-Iraq war. Then, once that war finished, he turned around and used the same things to try and take over Kuwait and you know the rest of the story.

I am rather liberal and it bothers me that I can not travel certain places because my country has made a few actions that I do not agree with.

well, back to things I actually have a control over.... Like Lotus Esprits

Shah

Edited January 31, 2006 by JRTurbo909

[Rgardner01]

This attitude was particulary noticable at the boarder crossing in Detroit, where I can honestly say I was treated quite badly (even by there standards)

I got the impression I was supposed to confess being a drug runner/terrorist/illiegal worker under the rude and insulting vocal barrage from the staff.

Thank god I live in Canada

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please please dont judge us by the Detroit Customs.....trust me they are like that to EVERYONE....not just outsiders. I have done that drive many times and dread it everytime even though I am from the Detroit Metro area.

I was treated quite badly (even by there standards)

Thank god I live in Canada

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But then again if everyone keeps throwing out this kind of rhetoric it will only bleed to worsing ties. What do think could possibly be the outcome....a warm family dinner??

[EspritMiltonKeynes]

Yeah... I hope this thread doesn't become a flame war too Paul.

I don't know how to solve the world's problems, I've just written about a page and a half of text on the whole post9-11 thing and then deleted it all because I realised it was all just personal opinions on issues that are neither right nor wrong anyway...

To me it's the side-effects of the War on Terror that are the saddest:

More and more police carrying about guns over here

Horrifying obscenities like the Jean Paul de Menezes scandal

Decent American people becoming demonized because of one hardline president with an antagonisitc attitude to International relations

And loads of other suff that's too sad to mention...

I dunno how to solve the world's problems...

Condoleeza Rice for next US President, Sir Jimmy Saville for next UK PM. He'll fix it!

[slade]

Well... I think I might be a little guilty of villifying Americans I both insult Americans and am also quite insultable myself

That said, I know a bunch of Americans who are great people. And living in Riverside (the most Trailor Trash area of southern California... though that might be Perris or Norco though) I see MUCH of the worst. The walking stereotypes are painful

People here are wierd. They think that they can react to extremism with more extremism. They have very small personal spheres. They're sheltered, xenophobic, scared... which is very odd seeing that we're a wealthy nation of immigrants. It's a loud minority I'd like to hope. It seemed like we were getting away from all that a while ago, but now that mentality is changing my country for the worse.

There are a lot of good things about America, but it really, really pisses me off that as an American I'm grouped by most people with the common American Stereotype. I'd like to say that stereotype is mostly moot but... Thank you all for not being so judgemental, or even ridiculing us about our straight roads

I predict that the direction this country is moving, it will either be unrecognizable in 20 years or will have completely collapsed.

Moving to Brazil either way!!! (insert your own picture of sexy brazillian girl)

Slade

Edited January 31, 2006 by slade

[JRTurbo909]

I don't know how to solve the world's problems, I've just written about a page and a half of text on the whole post9-11 thing and then deleted it all because I realised it was all just personal opinions on issues that are neither right nor wrong anyway...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree bout the personal opinions and edited my comments to reflect that. I hope that everyone realizes that us americans are as diverse as all of you. We dont all think the same way!!! We are good people too.

Shah

[karmavore]

We blow.

[WayneB]

Edited January 31, 2006 by WayneB

[Tony K]

Maybe someone has a reason why? Lets face it, Us (The British) have stuck our noses into more places than the Americans in the past yet come out of it with just a cross look.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me be the third US/Canadian border crosser to say, yes, the Detroit border guards treat everyone badly!

Tony K (the real Tony K), to answer your question (if I am reading it right), whereas the average American citizen is hated throughout the world at the moment, perhaps the reason the British don't draw any scorn is because they have deeper historical ties throughout the world. Hard to hate the British when they colonized so many parts of the world, and now the people of those countries today talk like them!

Another thought: Here in the States, most of what people see on TV about England is London, and we see images of a progressive, historical, international, and often trend-setting city. (Either that or scenes of green countryside, or reruns of Have You Been Served? ) I don't know what London or England as a whole are actually like, as I have never been there, but my point is that the "England" projected on TV to us is a multicultural city that is a major player in the world community. Hard to hate anyone with that image!

...Now my question is, are other countries shown the same characterization of England on their televisions as we in the States? . . . . and what do they see of America on their televisions?

Well, those are some thoughts/suggestions. I have no idea how valid or reasonable they might be; just some things off the top of my head to feed the discussion.

- Tony K (not the famous one with the big muscles)

Edited January 31, 2006 by Tony K

[sbarc]

I typed up a post but in the end I couldn't find my 10 foot pole.....

We'll be vacationing at home in Canada again next summer. Probably Mexico the following winter......I've also heard Cuba is quite nice...and the UK is always fun to visit and go drinking with family and friends.

[WayneB]

So it appears the root of the problems in the U.S. are down to the Border Guards/Customs

I remember the British Empire

Memorable quotes from the man who would be king

Edited January 31, 2006 by WayneB

[sbarc]

Yup....pretty well sums it up. Odd....I keep deleteing what I've typed.

So it appears the root of the problems in the U.S. are down to the Border Guards/Customs  

I remember the British Empire

Memorable quotes from the man who would be king

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[JRTurbo909]

Being an avid traveler, this bad impression of the americans is something that has been very obvious in my visits to other countries.

the people in the England were still pretty nice to me even after they heard my accent. The Netherlands too. I, unfortunately, can not say the same about the French. I still loved France though.

Shah

[WayneB]

Yup....pretty well sums it up.  Odd....I keep deleteing what I've typed. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Typical Canadian, too polite and diplomatic

A mouse in bed with an elephant

[sbarc]

Typical Canadian, too polite and diplomatic  

It's our way I'm afraid and do you know why? They're all armed!!!

[Kimbers]

I don't know what London or England as a whole are actually like, as I have never been there, but my point is that the "England" projected on TV to us is a multicultural city that is a major player in the world community.

Really????

I live about 2 miles from the factory in a small market town called Wymondham. If I drive about 250 yards I come out of my small housing estate straight into green fields. Now, London may be Multi Cultural and a major player in the world community and Manchester and Birmingham also (though less successful and more inner city estates) but anywhere else in the UK forget it. I had a nice family from Kenya move in next door, they are both doctors and the kids play with mine all the time. But every 2-3 cars that pass one window opens and abuse is shouted at the poor kids. There's a muslim lady who takes her kids to my kids school and I've seen women actually cross the road rather than walk past her. If you go in to the countryside it can be even worse (I get called an outsider because I have a midlands accent).

This is Norfolk though. Some area's (midlands, etc) have a more multi cultral society, but bigotry and racism are just as prevelent underneath the thin veneer.

As for the rest of our wonderful country, Aparantly 1% of all Glaswegians (from Glasgow Scotland are Heroin users) thats 1 in 100 really amazing!!! The Scots and Welsh most hate the English (we've all seen Braveheart) and for your information most British people dislike London, for sure I would rather you set light to my hair and put it out with a shovel than go there.

Anyway. Just so you all know, I actually adjusted my thread several times myself and merely wished to entice a little discussion. I in no way want it to get out of hand, so please....don't....let it....stay in han.......erm, you know what I mean.

[slade]

good point. I don't know what England is actually like at all, except for all those Dickens novels and all the stuffy looking guys in deerstalker caps who drive Morgans and MGs and the dudes who stand outside of like that one castle thingie and like, never move or nothin'. Seriously, it is a good point. I'm sure we all get fairly standardized, biased information about what each other's countries are all about. I'm curious as to how the UK really is, having heard so much about it's problems, from the outside (and from what people tell me) the UK seems to have a more liberal and open minded populace, though what Kimbers just said makes me want to take a few months vacation there to know for sure (in the summer).

Maybe it turns out we're all exactly the same. All that water between us can distort.

I'm a quarter English and a quarter Welsh. That explains why I hate that quarter of myself The other half of me is Filipino, and it seems like everyone enjoys conquering them which explains a lot too. They're like the France of Asia

slade

[WayneB]

Seems like racism and bigotry are a worldwide problem.

Arrived in the U.K. at the age of 4 .

Got bullied something rotton by the kids because of my "Yankee Accent"

Arrived in Canada 26yrs. later to be told to "F*ck off back to Limeyland" by a business rival

Seems idiots are a worldwide phenominum

[JRTurbo909]

its unfortunate that most of the world seems to be populated with ignorant bigots...

im not too optimistic...

Shah

[ragingfool35]

Seems like racism and bigotry are a worldwide problem.

Seems idiots are a worldwide phenominum

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen brother!

maybe everybody should buy an Esprit and come

together in our Lotus community

but there will always be those antisocialist who

choose Ferrari or Lambo or Porsche....

can't we all just get along?

[f1karting]

Hi all,

You may know me from such posts as "Lotus Anecdotes" and "Male, 38 and musclebound looking for similar female for fun/friendship"......actually, that was another site!

Anyway. Today at work discussions got around to a subject that annoys me and I wished to share it with you all and throw it open to discussion.

It started with someone saying "bloody Americans" during a news broadcast on their/your attitude to peace in the Middle East. It seems that, more and more, the American public are getting blamed for a hard line, slightly decrepid and definately unforgiving President who has made his name by blowing off the Kyoto Accord and invading Iraq on the back of a "Watch it he's got a gun!!" attitude when actually all he had was a pea shooter and some spittle covered balls of paper. Not that I blame anyone. Most of us here fell for it aswell and I think you can see the fall out in that no one really trusts anything Blair says anymore.

My argument is this. I know that the majority of Americans are like anyone else, working to earn a living, bringing up our kids as well as we can (which is hard with political correctness going mad over here) and having a set of personal values similar to anyone in the world. I have American friends, Afro Carribean friends, Indian friends, Malaysian friends, friends that I don't know where they come from! and they have pretty much the same morals/personal goals and as anyone else.

Unfortunately the anti American feeling in much of the world is growing but I for one love America (especially Vegas....and LA) where us Brits are welcomed...nay loved for our "cute accents" and bigger Penis's ( ...maybe thats just me.....)by the women and even let off by the cops for speeding because....well...we're British

Maybe someone has a reason why? Lets face it, Us (The British) have stuck our noses into more places than the Americans in the past yet come out of it with just a cross look.

This is Tony Kimberley for Esprit Forum news saying....something.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Without a doubt, everywhere you go in the world there are good people. I believe that.

I think that the problem plaguing the people in the US is that they are becoming victims of their countries politics and propaganda. And I believe the rest of the world could be falling into the trap and making it worse. We should all take a hard look at ourselves and realize how much damage that can do. We all deserve better.

It seems to me that the American public is being conditioned to fear themselves and their neighbors. Look at what the documentary, Bowling for Columbine reports. Add to that, news events that support its content, and you get kind of concerned about the state of things.

The CBC aired a documentary that provides an interesting perspective::

http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeye/powerofnightmares/index.html

Then there is Michael Moore

[MKE40]

Without a doubt, everywhere you go in the world there are good people. I believe that.

I think that the problem plaguing the people in the US is that they are becoming victims of their countries politics and propaganda. And I believe the rest of the world could be falling into the trap and making it worse. We should all take a hard look at ourselves and realize how much damage that can do. We all deserve better.

It seems to me that the American public is being conditioned to fear themselves and their neighbors. Look at what the documentary, Bowling for Columbine reports.  Add to that, news events that support its content, and you get kind of concerned about the state of things.

The CBC aired a documentary that provides an interesting perspective::

http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeye/powerofnightmares/index.html

Then there is Michael Moore

[DBredS4]

Kimbers has a good point regarding the 'thin veneer'. Its everywhere, shame really. But ,you know, its things like this forum and the passion that is Lotus that moves it all out of sight and mind. I go to the States a lot, other places too and there is always a bit of them and us. Guess that's what makes us human.

Anyway, back to whats important in life over almost everything else...

LOTUS

...and Penguins!