free hit
counters
Villified Americans - True or false - Page 4 - General Chat - The Lotus Forums - Lotus Community Partner #ForTheOwners Jump to content


IGNORED

Villified Americans - True or false


Kimbers

Recommended Posts

Yeah the world is a crazy place...

I think that the next 20 years are gonna be very interesting. All the conflict in the middle east and China's rediculous growth are gonna change a few things. It should be facinating to see the US' reaction to China growing into a superpower...

Im worried about the whole Iran situation as well. My mother left there when the Shah was overthrown and she seems to think that things may get worse with the current regime. I just dont want her to face any prejudices or drama because of her nationality. Shes a great person and that would be horrible...

the world is a really f*cked up place...

Shah

My Beautiful Car http://www.glcforum.com/ukesprit/forums/in...CODE=12&CID=182

...

ribbon200.gifProud to be a G-car ownerribbon200.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
  • Replies 114
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Yeah the world is a crazy place...

I think that the next 20 years are gonna be very interesting. All the conflict in the middle east and China's rediculous growth are gonna change a few things. It should be facinating to see the US' reaction to China growing into a superpower...

Im worried about the whole Iran situation as well. My mother left there when the Shah was overthrown and she seems to think that things may get worse with the current regime. I just dont want her to face any prejudices or drama because of her nationality. Shes a great person and that would be horrible...

the world is a really f*cked up place...

Shah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shah,

IMO,

One Helluva lot of this planet is still medieaval,and cannot accept reality.

If you care to look back into recent history , I dont think that the Thirties were too special, nothing to look forward to .......

Gadaffi has been rather quiet since the WOT, Must have seen the Shining Light and thought ' I'm next '..........

Just musin'

Mike

"Neglect not thy opportunities"

Martock ,Somerset. 1661

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gaddafi cut a deal (through us - the UK) to promise he would be a good boy adn trade sanctions etc have gradually been eased - he was facing a revolution as unlike in Iraq, the Libyan trade sanctions worked!

As for Trident - it is up for replacement as it has come to the end of its life and the debate is beginning as to what (if anything) to replace it with - AND if this will in any way infringe the NNPT etc.

Blair stuck by Bush so much, partly because the last thing Clinton told him to do when asked how to deal with Dubya (knowing how out there he was) was to maintain teh alliance / detante.

Maybe he went a bit too far, I don't know...

What I DO know is that Saddam Hussein murdered over 4 1/2 MILLION of his own people - that's as many people as Jews exterminated by Hitler... and I don't think there's a single sane person alive (that excludes neo-nazis and Iranian presidents!) who would suggest that we SHOULDN'T have ousted old Adolf!

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

ribbon200.gifG-Car Owner and Proud! ribbon200.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Saddam Hussein murdered over 4 1/2 MILLION of his own people - that's as many people as Jews exterminated by Hitler...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe it was closer to 8 million Jewish men, women and children were slaughtered (I maybe wrong) and it is a sad occurence in human history.

Unfortunately, it was not the first ime such incidents of mass extermination and extreme prejudice have occurred, but it was what the civilised world hoped would be the last such chapter.

It seems that this is not going to be so simple to actually acheive and as ever, 'the price of peace is eternal vigilance'.

Saddam and his regime are no loss to the world, Islamic, or other.

If we had it to do all over again, I say slam dunk the mo-fo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW - The French hate Parisians, Americans hate New York(ers) and I imagine this trend probably carries through to any other large industrial nation...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Robin:

On the cotnrary, I love New Yorkers (barring Hillary Clinton and she's no New Yorker). It's the falsies from LA I can't abide. :)

Toua:

Most of the Brits I've met are a great bunch. Could be because the bulk of them are in the Lotus community. Maybe it's just car people in general.

Happy Lotusing All!

Feff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Robin:

On the cotnrary, I love New Yorkers (barring Hillary Clinton and she's no New Yorker).  It's the falsies from LA I can't abide.    :)

Feff

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey thanks for jamming all us LA-folk into one group of "falsies."

I admit that LA has its share of posers but there are some really cool people and I have made great friends out here. Its just as diverse as any other large city, especially if you include all of the LA area. The only problem is if you venture into the trendy Hollywood spots...

I love people from all over the US, no matter where they are from, as long as they arent bigots...

Shah

My Beautiful Car http://www.glcforum.com/ukesprit/forums/in...CODE=12&CID=182

...

ribbon200.gifProud to be a G-car ownerribbon200.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The basic difference between Iraq and Iran is the bulk of the Iraqi people wanted Saddam out.  In Iran this doesn't appear so as they seem to like their government.  I highly doubt we will be in Iran any time soon.  What is more likely to happen is Democracy (there's that word again) will start to spread across the Middle East and force Iran into some type of therocracy (sort of a religous based Democracy) .  I sure hope Democracy grows there.

Feff

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are incorrect there. Iran is at a crucial point right now. Currently it is ranked 2nd in the world (behind Jordan) for having the youngest population in the world. The youth make up 65 percent of the country's population. Now, depending on how everything turns out, this could be a blessing for the remainder of the world. From articles that I read, the youth is not aligned with a lot of the traditional views of their parents and have been hinting towards a more Westernized view. And the unemployment rate in Iran for young people, if held up to its current rate of growth, is said to reach 52% in two years. Obviously the current administration is doing something wrong and I am not so sure that the youth would sit back and watch themselves be screwed by the government.

Now everyone knows, on some level, knows the reason why Iran is such a hot topic right not. They are sitting on 131 billion barrels of oil, second to Saudi Arabia. Oil makes up 85 percent of its exports (which Japan gets a good amount of). Currently the GDP of Iran is 1/4 of what it was in 1979 so there is a lot of potential for growth. And while the western world was focused on Iraq and ignoring Iran, the Chinese have set up extensive infrastructure to supply their future need for oil. This I have heard first hand from a colleague that owns an International Petroleum Engineering firm based out of Australia. Now, if we attack Iran, how do you think that would make Russia, Japan and China (a future superpower) feel about their oil supplies

My Beautiful Car http://www.glcforum.com/ukesprit/forums/in...CODE=12&CID=182

...

ribbon200.gifProud to be a G-car ownerribbon200.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wayne:

Would you have left South Korea to stand alone?  We've been in South Korea for over 50 years and will likely be in Iraq in some form for a similar time.  South Korea is a shining example of what can and will happen with persistance by the US and it's allies.

Would you have walked out of Germany ater WW2?  If we did after the hostilites were over, all of Europe would likely still be under the grip of the Iron Curtain (or the "Evil Empire" as Ronald Regan so eloquently called it) .  Again another case of standing pat and doing the job right. 

Would you have left Japan after the hostilities ended in WW2?  If so the Soviet Union would own the orient right now.  We stayed put and said "Hell No" to Stalin and now Japan is one of the world's greatest economies, a good allie (they write checks) and a good people as well.  Look what great things happen when we do the job right.

Now look at Vietnam.  Our military was hamstrung by Congress, winning all the battles but losing the war.  Vietnam is still a 3rd world country but in time it too will become a democracy as economics force it (and China) to embrace good old capitalism. 

The basic difference between Iraq and Iran is the bulk of the Iraqi people wanted Saddam out.  In Iran this doesn't appear so as they seem to like their government.  I highly doubt we will be in Iran any time soon.  What is more likely to happen is Democracy (there's that word again) will start to spread across the Middle East and force Iran into some type of therocracy (sort of a religous based Democracy) .  I sure hope Democracy grows there.

With regard to The US and Britian.  You stand with your friends, no questions asked.  Just as the Italians, South Koreans and other nations are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

Just my humlbe $0.02 woth.

Feff

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mark, I think you meant to address me.. LOL..

Once we're in there, we're in there. I don't agree on the "original" reason for going over there. If the US was to put forth some type of humanitarian reason than I could have accepted US going over to Iraq.

Do we belong there? No. However, we are there and need to follow through on this effort and see it to the end.

actwon

------

'14 Nike Shox

'12 Range Rover Sport

'01 Esprit V8

'95 Ducati 916

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe it was closer to 8 million Jewish men, women and children were slaughtered (I maybe wrong) and it is a sad occurence in human history.

Some historians say as low as 3 million and a handful say as high as 6.

The Encyclopedia Britannica places it at a more median figure of 4.5 and I can go with that...

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

ribbon200.gifG-Car Owner and Proud! ribbon200.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love people from all over the US, no matter where they are from, as long as they arent bigots...

YEAH!

I HATE BIGOTS!! :)

:o

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

ribbon200.gifG-Car Owner and Proud! ribbon200.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey thanks for jamming all us LA-folk into one group of "falsies."

I admit that LA has its share of posers but there are some really cool people and I have made great friends out here. Its just as diverse as any other large city, especially if you include all of the LA area. The only problem is if you venture into the trendy Hollywood spots...

Shah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shah:

You are correct. My sister-in-law lives in Woodland Hills, and her friends....WHEW! I shouldn't lump everyone in with her friends as I've had a lot of pleasantries with other LA people.

Feff

Edited by Feffman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got worried then :angry:

If the U.N. had sanctioned an action against Iraq, then we would have all been in this one together.

Dissapointed that the U.S. no longer seems to think it is part of the U.N.

They were making too much money to act against Iraq. The UN memebers were too busy accepting bribes to get around their own imposed sanctions for it work. I think they will be glad to impose sanctions and an embargo against Iran. After all they have had no income since the Iraqi gravy train has ended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Earth i.e mother nature, is gonna kill us all anyway so why we all dont try to make the most of the time left and get on better i dunno!!?

Were all human ( except for bush who is infact the child of satan here to destroy the planet earth!) so lets put all our differences aside and sort this planet out and live in peace for the rest of human history! :angry:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wayne:

Would you have left South Korea to stand alone?  We've been in South Korea for over 50 years and will likely be in Iraq in some form for a similar time.  South Korea is a shining example of what can and will happen with persistance by the US and it's allies.

Would you have walked out of Germany ater WW2?  If we did after the hostilites were over, all of Europe would likely still be under the grip of the Iron Curtain (or the "Evil Empire" as Ronald Regan so eloquently called it) .  Again another case of standing pat and doing the job right. 

Would you have left Japan after the hostilities ended in WW2?  If so the Soviet Union would own the orient right now.  We stayed put and said "Hell No" to Stalin and now Japan is one of the world's greatest economies, a good allie (they write checks) and a good people as well.  Look what great things happen when we do the job right.

Now look at Vietnam.  Our military was hamstrung by Congress, winning all the battles but losing the war.  Vietnam is still a 3rd world country but in time it too will become a democracy as economics force it (and China) to embrace good old capitalism. 

The basic difference between Iraq and Iran is the bulk of the Iraqi people wanted Saddam out.  In Iran this doesn't appear so as they seem to like their government.  I highly doubt we will be in Iran any time soon.  What is more likely to happen is Democracy (there's that word again) will start to spread across the Middle East and force Iran into some type of therocracy (sort of a religous based Democracy) .  I sure hope Democracy grows there.

With regard to The US and Britian.  You stand with your friends, no questions asked.  Just as the Italians, South Koreans and other nations are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

Just my humlbe $0.02 woth.

Feff

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think what you said was really nice. I do believe we Americans do, do some good to the world, and every country has their flops. But it's better to do something good then to sit there and let people die.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

( except for bush who is infact the child of satan here to destroy the planet earth!)  :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wait -- does that make Bush Sr., our president from 1988-92, Satan himself?!? :angry:

Tony K. :)

 

Esprit S1s #355H & 454H

Esprit S2.2  #324J

1983 Turbo Esprit, Investor Edition #03

1991 Esprit SE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My dad worked with Bush 1 when he was in the CIA with him. apparently he's a nice guy.

He hates Bush 2 though. (he's not extreme enough for my dad... anymore)

My dad's met every president since nixon I think, but he's mad about only having a picture of him and Clinton :P

His comment- Clinton has big hands. Sounds like my dad "meeting" someone has a different meaning entirely :P

Edited by slade

"It's called a fire hydrant. Firemen like to stick their hose in it, and eventually squirt water from it."

Owner of 86 TE HCI, and 55 Chevy. Stare at broken down TR7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weren't a large proportion of the population disenchanted with Roosevelt, regarding him with suspicion as a warmonger before Pearl?

Eisenhower then brought the world to the brink with confronting the reds and was followed by Kennedy escalating matters especially with the Cuban standoff.

Johnson and Nixon alarmed everybody with their gung ho support of the Vietnam war and the waste of lives.

Regan reached the height of instilling international fear about doomsday destruction with his starwars and cruise missiles and lately there's been the Bush duo.

My point being how all eras can be alarming, but what worried us twenty, thirty, fifty years ago fades into history.

Are we now in the worst period of all?

DanR

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry if I'm retreading anything, I haven't had enough energy to wade through 7 pages of half page long posts...

But I think back when the USSR was in existance, the world "appreciated" the US outarming the Soviets more? Not that anyone having weapons capable of obliterating entire nations is a comforting idea no matter who has them...

Reagan's arms production with the Soviets forced them into an economic position that they couldn't win. They didn't have the capacity to produce as many war implements as we could, as a matter of fact they could barely feed their people, thus they collapsed.

Our greatest weapon against the Soviets turned out not to really be nuclear weapons etc. but our economy. The cold war ended much more peacefully than it could have because of it. Whether the dissolution of the USSR was a just cause or not is up for interpretation of course, but at least that doomsday never came. Well, hasn't yet, and when it does it's certain the USSR won't be involved.

Of course those weapons (developed by both sides) are creating a problem now :P

Of course the Middle East situation is much more complicated than the cold war ever was as I'm sure has already been illustrated somewhere in here...

slade

"It's called a fire hydrant. Firemen like to stick their hose in it, and eventually squirt water from it."

Owner of 86 TE HCI, and 55 Chevy. Stare at broken down TR7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are we now in the worst period of all?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stalin, Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini combined killed over 30,000,000 people.

Roughly 20 countries went to war, destroying cities, schools, churches, and families all over Europe and beyond.

The United States took a marvelous new technology and used it to obliterate two Japenese cities.

How many people total--combatant and civilian--died from the violence and destruction of WWII, to add to the genocides committed in the name of social/ideological movements?

I'd say that, between Marxism (and related/competing ideologies) and WWII, the 1930s-1940s were the worst period of all. There has never been a more genocidal generation in world history. . . . well, at least in Western Civilization.

. . . then, of course, if you look east, roughly twenty years later Mao Tse-tung killed as many or more people in the span of just a decade. . .

IMHO, we have it pretty good now--we are far from being in the worst period of all. There are always problems in the world, and right now they appear to be building up to something, but at the moment most of our problems are comparatively trivial, and stem from our own complacency and hedonism at the societal level.

Looking forward, I hope and pray that the world learns from the horrible mistakes of the 20th century, both diplomatically, and (perhaps more importantly) ideologically.

Edited by Tony K

Tony K. :)

 

Esprit S1s #355H & 454H

Esprit S2.2  #324J

1983 Turbo Esprit, Investor Edition #03

1991 Esprit SE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reality of the horror of Nuclear armed conflict has kept the world at (relative) peace for the longest period in recorded history.

I think the poster above appears to have forgotten the Russian contribution to the Cuban Missile Crisis (cuba in retaliation for Turkey!) Also though, don't forget that it was in fact Khrushchev who backed off, knowing where it could go.

Wikipedia on Cuban Missile Crisis

To say that Marxism was the cause of the problems in the 20th century is (im sorry to say this) but a typically American response. You guys have such a jaundiced and unbalanced view due to your own media and governments in the past. Before you start trumpeting all the ridiculous things done by some of the left wing governments - I wouldn't begin to deny it - but there has been just as much crap emanating forth from U.S supported Right wing ones (<cough> Pinochet <cough> Hussein, House of Saud etc etc) I'm not advocating one side or the other but I've never encountered a realistic view of the debate from an American :) (Now here *I* go sounding all anti-American! (I refer all to my inital post!))

Incidentally I, as did many Europeans during the Cold War, never felt particularly threatened by Russia and never felt a need to be saved from them. I'm glad that the peering over the parapets at each other has stopped as supsicion between nations is never good but as Khrushchev demostrated, they had no more stomach for Global Thermonuclear War than the West. (although there will have been militaristic Hawks on both sides advocating a first strike policy... - Jeeze - imagine if Cheney et al had been in power during the Cuban Missile Crisis!!! :) ) * BOOM ! ! ! *

Also in terms of eras of peace - we have only to look further back in history to see continual mass bloodshed (eg Crusades / Albigensian Crusade etc etc)

What we are enpountering at the moment is frankly, very minor (the fear is it may have the *potential* by a suitably motivated and stocked nutter, fundamentalist :) ) to be drastic :P

(and by fundamentalist I tie that to NO specific religious group as there are nutters on the fringes of every last one of them)

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

ribbon200.gifG-Car Owner and Proud! ribbon200.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

History is typically written by the victors.

Before the Spanish Armada set sail to depose the heretic Queen Elizabeth of England, King Phillip ii of Spain had his top bishops and cardinals administer a special service on the wharves. There was a dispensation for all the sailors, forgiving them their sins and promising they would go to heaven as a reward for their holy crusade! Deja vu.

DanR

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.


×
×
  • Create New...