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fastdave92649

Engine won't fire

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Is 15K Dollars with 'material only' ?? As I think the 918 engine is some sort of 'userfriendly' if it comes out to rebuilds. Just look into Mikes engine projects, or even my engine (it's only an half 'rebuild') -done in something like a shed (or call it wintergarden..).

Get you'r hands on one of the 918 workshop-manuals (not the partslist..) in the 'www' -several 'special' tools can be handbuild in DIY. The rest is only on sorting out of the parts sources... .

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I can't fathom how an engine rebuild could cost $15k USD, seriously, these things aren't magic. I'll be hard pressed to spend $5K on mine(forged pistons and ARP studs as well), serious profit being taken imo.

Stick with the 918, if you do go LSx just get a LS1 from an earlier F-body (still has cable throttle). LS7 is huge expense for little gain, a good LS1 based engine will produce as much if not more power for alot less $

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12,500 for the entire rebuild, parts and labor is what I was quoted. Although I like to error on the high side as once you pull it apart there is always a few things that you did not plan for. I'm sure they would do a spot on job in the rebuild, unfortunately I'm in the middle of a kitchen remodel as well.. so the timing in having a professional do it is not going to work out.

I will be taking it to my friends garage where I actually own a lift and have access to the engine stands etc. Once I pull it I will look at what needs to be done and go from there. My biggest worry is once I rebuild the engine and have it back to 100% the transmission will go out on me..

I completely agree that it's just an engine, regardless of who makes it; it's still pistons and valves, intake and exhaust..

If i did go LSx then it would be an LS1 with an inverted G50/xx transmission and I would not have to worry about the trans and parts would be super cheap compared to Lotus parts. If this is the path I take then it would end up SC down the road and provide for an entertaining little car. Although as mentioned then I need to determine SMOG and CARB issues, although I bought the car to be a track whore I would still like to keep it road legal. It would also make for a convenience when I finally get around to starting my next project (GTM) I can pull the kit out of the Lotus and put the 918 back in.

Anyone know the weight of the 918? and Trans? One thing I do not want to do is upset the balance of the car by sticking an engine/trans combo that significantly raises the weight from original.

Lots of things to think about.. Maybe rebuild the 918 and work the adapter plate out to mate the G50 transmission to it.. :thumbsup:

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Check your messages, I've just sent you an option on an engine from Lotus which is cheaper than a rebuild, might help with the decision :thumbsup:

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Thats hot Bibs..

Haven't even started looking at my engine yet. I'm going to pull it and see how much is damaged.

Only negative I see about going new factory engine is I would rather have forged pistons.. Time will tell how much is actually broken.

I'll keep you all up to date as I start this adventure.

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hmmmm......lovely, an Euro3 rated engine !

by the way: the timing pointer is an factory upgrade, isn't it :question:

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Strobe light . . .

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Sorry to hear Dave. The LS7 and G50 would be a nice with not much more weight but your car will be worth much less.

BTW, were your belts replaced or adjusted recently? If so when and by whom?

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Belts have not been checked or changed recently. Car just turned 16k miles so it was on my list of things that needed to be done. Although I have not pulled the front cover off, I think the issue is with the Primary timing chain that is under the front cover. The bolt that holds the cog for the crank has a nasty habit of backing out. I have drained the fluids and prep-d the engine for removal so getting to disassembly time.

Everyone here will be overjoyed, I have decide to rebuild the 918. I was only considering the LS1/7 with the G50 to save costs. Well now that the GTM, GT40 and Ultima guys are using the G50 for their application those transmission prices have gone from 2-3k to 6-8k saving me nothing.

Current plan of action:

  • Disassemble Engine.
  • Pull the pistons and drop in forged ones. Will probably have this done at a shop and have them hone the block and balance the assembly. I'm assuming if the liners and bearings, etc are all in good shape they don't need replacement?? Should I pull the liners and replace or reseal them even if I have had no issues with the sealant??
  • Pull apart the heads and replace any valve train components that may have been damaged/bent.
  • Maybe have the heads ported and 5 angle valve job done.
  • Will have the manifolds coated for heat control. Anyone recommend cryo or treating any of the other parts. What coating or treatment is recommended for the pistons??
  • Not sure what to do with the turbos while the engine is out, maybe coat them, port them or replace them with GT2860R's.
  • Drop a GTO 6 speed dog box gear set into the transmission and call that done. :lol:

Any assistance or comments on parts and pieces that I should replace while the engine is apart? New gaskets are a given, new bearings if the current ones are worn or damaged, oil seals?

Also any advice on the must have Lotus specific tools, especially the Cam/Crank positioning pins, where can I get them?

Edited by fastdave92649

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Timing-disk ->DIY part

Setting & tolerance Pins ->DIY (drills from a 'home depot' shop)

Crank position tool ->DIY (measure crank-sensor port diameter for tight fittmend, cut a aluminium, steel -or even plastic tube to length, add the slots in the middle axis -ready!)

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Well the engine is out and fully disassembled, sent the heads off to the machine shop for rebuild. They will be doing some light porting on the exhaust side, a 5 angle valve job, and replacing the 2 bent exhaust valves, 6 bent intake valves, and all the guides and such. The block is also there for the installation of the forged coated pistons from JAE and the usual deck work, honing etc etc.

I am starting to source the sealants and some of the lotus specific tools for assembly of the front cover, rear cover, etc.

Can anyone give me a ballpark cost of the Lotus specific tools below (in any currency)? Depending on the cost I will either purchase them or possibly look for anyone willing to let me borrow them once I get the block back from the machine shop.

Locating plate for front cover intermediate shaft.

TOOOT1248

Intermediate shaft locating bush

TOOOT124/1

Flywheel Locking Tool (transmission removed)

TOOOT1249

In case anyone wants to know the root cause of this endeavor... once I pulled the plastic guard off the front cover section I took 2 fingers and very lightly turned the intermediate shaft bolt that holds the cam sprockets on the shaft. With VERY little force the bolt spun right out, a far cry from the 80 ftlbs spec for this bolt. Once I took the sprockets off I manually spun the crank (heads off at this point) and the intermediate shaft spins fine. So one bolt not properly torqued (or reused by PO) gave me the excuses needed for the wife to green light the engine rebuild. :blush:

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If you don't want to do the tools by yourself -ask Mike, looks like he has all of them... .:blush:

Butz from my point -you don't need them (appart from this damn 'crank angle sensor bracket' setting tool -if you already have one of the older engines with seperate bracket. All others are not generally neccessary I would say:

The setting & trolerance pins -as said above -DIY (drills from a home dept shop .It was alrerady an advice in this board ..and I have used it this way and can confirm that it works best )

To set up the guide-brackets for the intermediate-timing chain: Udse the cleaned (not sealand on the faces/edges) original cover of your engine. Place it like it shoulkd (keep in mind to position it flat and even, without steps on the sump-face -or to the side..) . Use an older spanner [13mm] to fabrikate an really flat & small spanner for the M8 screws on the brackets. Tighten only one bold 'by hand' , place the cover in position and tighten with the *special DIY-spanner* the other screw on the bracket after position the bracket to the chain -like said in the workshop book. This way (done on both sides/brackets) you will have an acurate positioned original cover, and screws on the chain brakets tight enough to undo the cover and undo one srew after the other and refit /retighten with thread-locker glue as mentioned in the manual. Means a little more work -but as I think you will not use the factory tools often enough , it saves a lot of money ?!

As for the flywheel-tool -why not fabrikate one tool that fits between the flywheel-srews ...and is based on a simple metal bar ?

And if you have one who can assist -just block the crankshaft on the flywheel with a big screwdriver ...if you want to undo the flywheel screws. It works a liitle if you use a 'hot air' blower...and head one screw up after the other ...the glue on the treats gets weak behind a specific temperature (same works for the srews on the camshaft pulleys !)

for references, see my *caught by murphys law..* topic in the rebuild section :)

Edited by Günter

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Quick question for the group.

I have heard from a few people that the intermediate shaft pulley bolt is torque to yield use once bolt. Is this correct and should I replace those 5 (intermediate shaft and the cam pulleys) bolts during my rebuild?? I see no mention in the manual of these bolts NOT being reused?

Also torque specs for the oil filter housing to the block would be help full as I can not find that in the manual either.

Thanks

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Hi Dave,

You should be able to re-use the intermediate shaft and cam pulley bolts - there is no mandatory requirement to replace them each time.

The oil filter housing to block should be torqued to 20Nm.

Good luck with your re-build.

Cheers,

Mike S

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Hi all,

I figured i would update this thread as it has almost been a full year the car has not been running.

The Current plan of action:

  • Disassemble Engine. Done
  • Pull the pistons and drop in forged ones. Done: Had the machine shop hone and deck the block and install the JAE forged pistons in stock size.
  • Pull apart the heads and replace any valve train components that may have been damaged/bent. Done: 6 Intake and 3 exhaust bent (might have this backwards), replaced them along with all the other bits, and had the heads ported with most of the work being done on the exhaust side and a 5 angle job.
  • Maybe have the heads ported and 5 angle valve job done. Done
  • Will have the manifolds coated for heat control. Done: Had the exhaust manifold double coated with ceramic and the turbo housings (both sides) ceramic coated.
  • Not sure what to do with the turbos while the engine is out, maybe coat them, port them or replace them with GT2860R's. Done: Pulled the stock turbos out and replaced with a pair of GT2871R's. To facilitate this had to create custom compressor housings, and I had to install a sump pump to push the oil return back to the pan. Also had to notch out the bell housing similar to Mike's first build.
  • Drop a GTO 6 speed dog box gear set into the transmission and call that done. NOT Done: Decided to wait on this due to finances, will be installing and breaking the engine in with the stock box. Not my ideal scenario but the wifey took away my blank check.

Stuff done but not on the list: ARP head studs installed, R&B water pump pulley, complete audio system updates, Sport350 engine mounts, custom intakes (similar to Mikes current project) I used K&N Apollo filter housings and used the flex pipe included to run the cold air from the scoops to the intakes.

Here are some pictures:

Engine Build Pictures

I'm priming the oil system and working on the last few bends in my 3" exhaust setup, so it won't be long before it's fired up!! I will be working on Rev2 of my intercooler system as I replaced the sections mating turbos to cooler pipes with V-Bands, I will be keeping the BOV silicon and the TB silicon, the rest will be V-Bands. I'll also be switching my coolers from push on fittings to 10AN braided line and fittings.

Edited by fastdave92649

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Dave,

Well done that man ! You are a superstar - you´ve managed to get the GT2871s in there..... and with v-band outlet :unworthy:

I really like the solution to change the compressor outlet direction - very clever.

Looking forward to more news as you move forward.

Couple of questions:

- What clutch set-up are you going for?

- What flow rate on those injectors?

Cheers,

Mike S

Edited by mike_sekinger

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Thanks Mike...

For the clutch I will be using the standard carrier but going with the ford 1" spline and disc's.

Injectors are Bosch 0280155715 and flow 25lbs/hr at 43psi (3 bar). Should have enough flow and headroom for the break-in period at low boost but I will have to watch my AFR's once I get it on the Dyno and start raising the boost up. Right now I have my Forge gates set at 7 PSI which with the larger turbos should get me right around the 12 PSI of the old stock turbos. After break-in and the transmission gets done I will be cranking up the boost to about 12-15 PSI.

Futures would be an Aquamist HFS-3 kit with a 50/50 blend of water and methanol, then maybe crank the boost up a little more! :)

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Hi Dave,

That is the same clutch set-up that I have, mated to a GTO 5-speed gearbox. The reason for asking about the clutch, is that I am not at all convinced about the strength of the standard cover.... we really need something with significantly more clamping force and I was hoping that you had something up your sleeve. :construction:

With those chargecoolers and relatively moderate boost (even stage II is still low), I doubt that you would actaully need the water/methanol injection.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers,

Mike S

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There are a couple of options I can see for this clutch cover issue.

We can search for a fit from Tilton, Exedy or the other major manufacturers that produce multi-plate clutches for a fit, we would need all the spec's of the current setup. I think it's a 7.25 inch disc, not sure on the depth, bolt pattern/spacing, throw-out bearing specs, total depth of the cover etc...

The second option I was looking into is having one of my local specialty shops rebuild the stock cover with stiffer pressure plate spring fingers. Luckily I have 2-3 top clutch rebuild outfits in my local area. I have talked to the guys at ClutchNet Manufacturing and one other outfit already, just need to bring in my stock setup for them to have a look at. Also took my AP setup to the North American Distributor of AP Racing and they told me although it was AP racing product the only option would be new through Lotus.

When I'm ready to do the GTO 6 Speed I will be starting with the second option and taking it to see if a rebuild with a stiffer pressure plate setup is viable. I'm still going with the 1in spline and discs regardless of the cover status. Would love to find a nice triple disc carbon setup that fits but may be harder and much more expensive than just uplifting the existing cover.

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Just updated my pictures in the link on page 3.

Added some shots of the intake setup I used, the intercooler to turbo sections with there V-bands, and the preliminary exhaust.

I need to re-work my exhaust sections from the turbos over the axles, I'm not happy with them. I was originally tring to put the cats as close to the turbo's as possible. This puts the V-band flanges right in front of the cross member and I feel once the engine starts moving on the mounts I will have nasty cat rubbing on my frame. I will be mocking up the back box and then using my 120 degree pipes to swing the cats outboard more and backwards so I can extend the axle pipes backwards more so the v-band is behind the crossmember.

All makes sense in my head.. LOL

The hardest part about using the V-Bands on the exhaust is there is no room for error on the angles and connection points.

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It's ALIVE!!!!

Engine fired up for the first time last night. :) Running pretty rough as I first fired it up without the IAT and intercooler setup on. This put me in limp home mode with P0111 and P0113, cleaned the IAT connections and temporarily installed the intercooler cores and BOV's to close the intake loop. Hope to get the idle set, coolant system bled, etc...

One area that I am not happy with is the fuse I'm using to trigger my relay's for the turbo oil return scavange pump and the intercooler pump. I currently have it tapped off a fuse that has 12v when the key is in ACC position. This means when the engine is not running my scavange pump still is. I would like to find a fuse that is only on when the eninge is actually running??

Anyone know of a fuse that is only on when running? I may have to run the relay trigger wire up to the front fuse block....

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