AP Brakes

[bobbak]

I am having a little difficulty understanding the fittment theory with AP Brakes I phoned AP and got stonewalled cos they only sell to Lotus But what I reckon is that the calipers are generic and the mounting is done with brackets designed to mate to the existing Hub carrier but truth is without one in my hand to look at I dont really know for sure.

so can some one enlighten me here please.

regards rob

Oh and if anone has a 350 sport suspension and ap cacing brake set they want to sell I will be very interested in discussing it with you.

[Vulcan Grey]

I am having a little difficulty understanding the fittment theory with AP Brakes I phoned AP and got stonewalled cos they only sell to Lotus  But what I reckon  is that the calipers are generic and the mounting is done with brackets designed to mate to the existing Hub carrier but truth is without one in my hand to look at I dont really know for sure.

so can some one enlighten me here please.

regards rob

Oh and if anone has a 350 sport suspension and ap cacing brake set they want to sell I will be very interested in discussing it with you.

You can do anything you want to, if you do everything yourself...

The AP calipers (front) are just as you said, you could get a standard set, design your own mounting hardware. But then you need rotors... I've heard the Lotus rotors are unique, but there is no reason you can't use standard AP rotors from another fitment. Then you have to design you own rotor mounting hats...

You have to be careful to have the correct offset built into the hats, so that they will fit in your wheels.

The rear calipers are just the same Brembo rear calipers from the other V8's that is mounted at a larger diameter with a new bracket, and a larger rotor.

I've been going through alot of this since I am designing my own set of Brembo Racing brakes for my 89SE.

http://www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/ga...o-Racing-Brakes

I don't know about your laws in the UK, but they may have rules against doing all this unless you use exactly what Lotus has used... I knoe the Germans get all sorts of uptight unless everything is TUV approved... Something to look into.

[pitstoppete]

what size are u thinking of going to Rob?

the front brembos lend them selves really easily to just spacing out a bit further with simple spacers between the bracket and the caliper. ive gone to 312mm audi discs.

rears are even easier. using the sport 350 handbrake caliper bracket and a 320mm non lotus disc, and std. brembo esprit/elise calipers. i have a word file of exactly what i have done to mine if u are interested.

careful measurements are required to ensure the bias front/rear is kept the same. SE is 1.1 to 1, others are slightly different. too big on the front discs, and the surface area is way to big, and there will be much locking up going on. u maight have abs on yur later car though.

also, you can modify the sport 350 rear caliper bracket to take a deeper std pad from another car, if u want the bias spot on.

[bobbak]

what size are u thinking of going to Rob?

the front brembos lend them selves really easily to just spacing out a bit further with simple spacers between the bracket and the caliper. ive gone to 312mm audi discs.

rears are even easier. using the sport 350 handbrake caliper bracket and a 320mm non lotus disc, and std. brembo esprit/elise calipers. i have a word file of exactly what i have done to mine if u are interested.

careful measurements are required to ensure the bias front/rear is kept the same. SE is 1.1 to 1, others are slightly different. too big on the front discs, and the surface area is way to big, and there will be much locking up going on. u maight have abs on yur later car though.

also, you can modify the sport 350 rear caliper bracket to take a deeper std pad from another car, if u want the bias spot on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like at the very least better braking I have spoken to Dave(superdavelotus) re disks from PNM and i am happy just to go down that road as the parts are ready to go. As for size no bigger than yours really max 320mm

But me being me I have got this be in my bonnet about AP's reluctance to sell or divulge what calliper family the lotus 350 sport caliper belongs to. So part of me says just buy from pete at PNM but the engineer part of me says figure out what caliper family I need to buy from and then modify the fitting bracets to get the dogs wotsits of brake function.

Time is on my side on this one and seeing as donny is coming up I might be able to collect a bargin there.

regards rob

Edited February 18, 2006 by bobbak

[pitstoppete]

most special bits supplied to Lotus are like that. they kinda clam up when u ask the supplier. its the way it is.

350's have blue calipers, there probably a std differencial piston AP caliper, just blue. dont know the piston sizes off the top of my head, but ive got one pair here from the same family. (unmatched pair unfortunately, ones a jag one) i'll measure it.

brembo route seems cheaper by far for hardware/pads etc.

pnm discs are good. all fit well. the site shows post 93 brembo upgrade. prices good. even when i worked out exactly what it all was off of, and how to go about doing it, its still good value letting them do the machining etc.

my fronts are a bit different to the PNM brembo conv. like u would need.

coz mines an toyota braked SE, ive got the sport 300 style rear mounted front disc, disc centre opened out to suit hub rear, extra mounting holes drilled, and spacers between the brembo brackets and the upright, and spacers to align the bracket to the disc centre

i think it comes down to how much spondulux u wanna spend. i like doing things myself if its possible. or go for the various mega kits on the WWW, by all the specialists

[superdavelotus]

Hi all, Lotus being Lotus sourced their parts from different places and if they could get a cheap deal then they would. As for the AP brakes found on S350's they are one of the oldest designs AP do, probably old stock or certainly old design so cheap price. AP have a really good name is the motoring industry but the calipers are 20 years old is design if not more.

You CAn buy calipers from AP direct but you need to consider the following:-

1. Calipers have different width for accepting different width discs.

2. The Lotus AP discs and bells are different from the ones you can buy from AP direct both in hub radius, off set and bell diamter. Bell diameter often gets over looked but if your bell is too big then it will clash with the caliper.

3. Brackets need to be worked out in both offset and distance away from edge of disc.

It's not rocket Science to work this out if you have spare time on your hands. A bit pointless if it's a one off.

The PNM discs are 323mm fronts and 321mm rear for your information. I have given you the details of these already, Iam not trying to flog these to you.

I would say that if you want to go down the AP route then I will help in any way I can. It's a shame we don't have a spare caliper we can work to? The more products alaivible the better IMO.

I already have the AP copy discs and bells on my V8 and would consider putting AP calipers on mine. If you do come up with something then let me know. In the meantime Iam still looking at Hi-Spec moneter 6 calipers and billet 4 with integral handbrake caliper of rear.

BTW, do AP do a rear alloy 4 pot handbrake caliper yet?

[bobbak]

I would say that if you want to go down the AP route then I will help in any way I can. It's a shame we don't have a spare caliper we can work to? The more products alaivible the better IMO.

I already have the AP copy discs and bells on my V8 and would consider putting AP calipers on mine. If you do come up with something then let me know. In the meantime Iam still looking at Hi-Spec moneter 6 calipers and billet 4 with integral handbrake caliper of rear.

BTW, do AP do a rear alloy 4 pot handbrake caliper yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont think they do the rear as a four pot when I spoke to them they were not very co-oprative at all, I sent you an e-mail earlier and looking at the info you sent over in your previous mail I think I am going to try the monster set up and do the rears aswell and if you could get pete to send me a picture of the componant parts of this kit I will arange a time to come up and get it done.

by the way thanks for all the help with this and everything else

regards rob

[superdavelotus]

No worries Rob, I will always go out my way to help a fellow Esprit owner! When you're running your car in, why don't you pop over to the NW and meet up? Also there is a mini meet next Sunday at Outlon Park, can you make it?

[Rob]

The lotus caliper is a CP5200. Its the most common AP caliper out there for road cars. TVR also use same caliper, as do Noble etc. Apart from the lotus badge its a stock AP part as far as i can tell.

Marcus sells exactly the same AP caliper without the lotus badge for about half what lotus want for them.

[Rob]

..just to add, Travis's brakes give me the horn

[jimc]

Hi,

I have just ordered a new set of AP breaks for my V8-GT.

I have gone for 330x32 at the front with CP5200 calipers. These are common AP sizes, and widely avalible. I belive the caliper is very similar to the S350 caliper, though it is a more modern design. I have heard that the S350 caliper was first designed as an F3 caliper (I have no way of confirming this). I went for 330 as they were coniderably less exspensive, and had already been fitted to an Esprit in 28 wide flavor. This made it easy to spec the bracket for the 32 wide disc. Went for the 32 as this the same a S350, and should give better heat dissapation.

At the back decided to stick with standard caliper to save money, but go for same size as S350 (320x26). This is an unusual size disc, and therfore exspensive.

Have also gone for curved groves front and back. No holes.

Total package with Ferodo 2500 pads (the pads are from memory - I think I have it right) is about

[jeff_hooper]

Lotus seem to have a very 'anti owner' (its the only way to describe it!) attitude with this unhelpful restrictive spare parts thing.

I remember a mate having to replace a clutch on an s2, many years ago and finding that the clutch came in a box from a usual after market supplier - doing some basic research he found it was the same as in a BL Princess 2.3, he saved himself a few hundred pounds buying the princess item and then getting a local engineering company to change the centre spigot for him for a fiver! About the same time he bought a basic exterior door trim piece for stupid money, labelled 'Genuine Lotus item' packaging, underneath this, it still had part of the original 'Vauxhall' labelling and part number... which was just a piss take......

My V8 has some seriously low quality under fittings which for a car garaged for most of its life are now in very poor condition when compared with my VW golf which is some 4 years older and kept outdoors all its life and is in much better condition the Lotus is a very sad comparison.

I've got a mate with a GT3 that is 6 years old with about 6k on the clock all boringly careful quality dry miles - its a pile of shit quality wise when you look at it underneath.... the sight of this is a regular experience for him as he only has a single garage with lots of head room so when he bought his Aston Martin he had a car mechanics garage lift put in and the Lotus lives on the lift with the Aston underneath... LOL... don't ask what the speed record is up his 1/2 mile long drive but we recon its over a 100.. But seriously you could look at the rusty mess under his GT3 and you would have no hesitation in feeling justified in calling him a liar when he tells you its clinically clean history...

Lets be honest for 60k brand new (the list price of my speced up v8 in 96)! I'd expect Lotus to be feeling VERY guilty about the crappy life expectance of many of the components put on its products and should be falling over backwards to help ripped off owners to keep there cars alive and in good health rather than charging stupid rip of money for basic parts that should have lasted longer than they have, instead of taking massive mark ups for stuff. Also, for many years Lotus seem to have been getting suppliers to sign contracts with sole supply and confidentiality clauses that leaves the industry looks like a ass cos the manufacturers know exactly what bits we want to buy but, WANT us to go to LOTUS and pay a 300% mark up from there supply price if we had used the magic password and asked for the secret part number known only to Lotus...

I'm in the middle of changing rusted out fuel tanks on a 30k mile car that's been garaged for 6 years that I know and only 9 years old and not used at all for 6 winters. This really is VERY poor quality on a car with this age and history. On a 30 years old production run car you'd think they would have had MORE than enough chance to fix this 'known fault...' It can only be described as a pathetic performance for what us British people would like to project on the world stage as as an excellent world class flagship British engineering company..

Okay, its a small volume semi 'kit' car, true... But then look at the cost of replacement discs for the front of a 350 Sport via the factory/main dealer, against getting the same direct from AP! Then you really can't help but feeling that you are being seriously ABUSED and butt f....ed by Lotus.

For many years Lotus seem to feel owners are fair game to rip off and abuse with whatever restrictive supply practices they can arrange and then they are free to charge whatever price they fancy.....

Jeff

(I'm not bitter really, just because I recently found the factory aren't interested in upgrading my 96 ECU to 350 spec cos it seems mostly they aren't interested/can't be bothered!! and yes I do feel I've been fobbed of with the pathetic excuse that the 350 is better cos the fibreglass is thinner! they seem to have assumed I'm a none engineer based moron! Oh and I'm sure its also not cause the torque is held back in all gears except 5th cos the gearbox really wasn't good enought from the very start which they knew about but sold the car anyway...... I know that I'm willing to live with the very obvious risk).

Look Lotus, I have the car, and I know the risks, I know I'm gonna need a gearbox rebuild/upgrade at some stage, cos it isn't up to it. I'm willing and having some perverse fun keeping it going and spending the money!

The more Lotus cars are seen on the road the better. It must save you money on your advertising budget cos they really are lovely looking cars and that must help sales of your truly state of the art new/modern cars.

So get real with your older cars don't try and rip us off on parts prices and don't be so unhelpfull....).....

I yes I really fancy an Elise 240R in a few years time when I am ready... but well given this attitude I'd happily try elsewhere Porsche 997 (not 996!) or better still a Noble M12..

Edited February 20, 2006 by jeff_hooper

[Rob C]

Jeff you want more ECU fun..have an ECU Chip upgrade like i have from Johan