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FastMatt

New Dyno from today 512 RWHP & 430 RWTQ SAE!

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I notice Americans talk a lot about power but not a lot actual overall performance/cornering...... Maybe Clarkson has a point!

Anyway, doesn't most of the USA have a 55 mph speed limit which at full bore on 500BHP will be maybe 3 1/2 seconds to 55 then virtually running on tickover? Big country and lots of long straight road (which is why Americans never take any interest in handling) = maybe 30 seconds at full throttle every 100 miles.. lol., Maybe this is how the reliability is achieved because most of the time the power is there but you only use 50BHP of it?

Jeff

PS. From what appears on this site it seems the V8 is very lucky to do 40k between rebuilds on standard outputs... so yes, a very very interesting project but I'd like to have an update at say 20,000 miles....

PPS. I'd love to see some of the big power quoted cars on this thread in a real life fun European situation on a proper road/circuit that test the cars dynamics.... Just chasing power is only part of the overall package and becomes restrictive if the rest of the package isn't able to compare with the power increase... Easing of the throttle and matching a boy racer in his hothatch in the traffic lights Grand Prix was always fun in an S2 (some 15 years ago), then watching the boy racer bottle out and disappear backwards at the first bend when they HAD to slow down with the S2 just sailed round with grace and accelerating with confidence said so much more that a quick 0-60 time and was so much fun... British cool and understated..

Edited by jeff_hooper

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ya you are seriously killing your midrange power with those extremely low (rich) A/F numbers. You want it to be steady right aroun 11:1 - 11.5:1 not below 10. You can tell b/c as soon as the A/Fs run below 10 the power graph gets REAL shaky and jagged indicating ECU is trying to correct but it just cant b/c the numbers are just too far outside the parameters. but other than that fantastic numbers. congrats! :blink:

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I think you have really gotten to the real core of this thread. The debate has mistakenly centered around the question can you make XXX hp with an Esprit reliably.  But for people like Matt (and myself), that is not the question at all.  I'm guessing Matt will continue to push the HP levels until he runs out of cash or moves to a different project.  Parts failures will just be A: part of the learning exercise, B: opportunities to beef up internals for yet more power, and C: proof that he is actually trying hard enough to push the HP boundaries.  Its just a very fundamental difference in how you see the ownership experience.  In his case it is not just about owning and preserving a Lotus.  I can respect the preservationist approach, but I agree more with Matt's approach.  I most enjoy working on my cars and have often described them as more "science-fair project" than museum pieces.  Certainly Colin Chapman was more of the mindset to push marginal (but creative) engineering to its absolute limit.  So indeed Matt's approach to performance tuning is a bit more in line with Mr. Chapman's spirit than the Porsche-style conservative approach to tuning that is being recommended in this thread.  Certainly if reliability was weighed heavier in our minds than performance, most of us would not likely have chosen the Lotus in the first place.  (although the PO for my car said he bought it because it looked like a Lamborghini , but was cheaper)   

When I explained to non-car people that buying an Esprit was a dream for me, they automatically assumed it was just some shallow materialism or ego issue.  I even started to wonder myself for a moment.  But, when even after working a 16 hour day I would still make time to be excited reading page after page of the workshop manual or gleefully browsing the parts manual.  I was reminded that for me, its not about being seen in it, even driving it is secondary.  (I drove it 1300 miles home, and then took it apart for service and upgrades) Instead, its about learning about what these passionate engineers came up with in building their version of a supercar.  They certainly didn't want to build Hondas.  I think Matt's approach honors these engineers by removing the compromises they made in order to ensure that Lotus would not get battered financially by warrantee claims, bad press or lawsuits by people who could not handle 500+ hp.  There is a lot of value in really proving how much power can be produced by this engine in close to stock form.  I think his ~600hp is very impressive, even if it necessarily will shorten engine life.  Its fun and exciting to be a pioneer on the tuning front.  If following this approach myself means I may have the pleasure of disassemble my beautiful 918 to replace a piston or bearings, then so be it. 

Besides, someone has to break stuff, just so everyone else knows where to best spend available funds on bulletproofing, or where the ever-changing HP/reliability line really is.  Based on these efforts we can each make our own decision on the power to service interval trade off that fits our individual budget and preferences.   

So even if you don't agree with Matt's approach, you certainly don't want to convince him to stop.  Instead, just encourage him to report back all the gory details when/if something breaks.  This is very important info that is not available in the service manual.

Regards!

Rod

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Rod

thanks for one of the bests posts that I have seen. you are 100% right- it is all in the owners perception on why he bought a esprit. Mike and Matt are probably both correct in many of their posts regarding this. I think what Matt is doing is fantastic , especially if he keeps updating us on how the car is progressing and holding up, it can help many present and future owners know their cars limitations without having to go through the trials and tribulations themselves. Matt is actaully helping us out on this and we should thank him for it.

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Car is still running grate. And fast ass hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How's the transaxle holding up?

Man, I remember running DR-650's on my 93 VR4 back in the day LOL! If you wanted big power, should have TT'd the viper man.

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Up-date, to all those that thought "the stock motor will never last at those power levels" Well I have been driving the car at those boost levels and even a few trips to 20psi every time I drive the car. Still running like a champ not even a hick-up.

These motors are allot stronger then people are leading you to beleave. Just stay away from detonation and thy hold up just fine. As soon as I get some time I m going to be installing some 310cc injectors in my quest for 550+ RWHP

Those who say it cant be done are most of the time interrupted by those that are doing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great stuff!! Get some more video to if you can. This is great to keep updated on what you have done. For future owners like myself as well.

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How's the transaxle holding up?

Man, I remember running DR-650's on my 93 VR4 back in the day LOL! If you wanted big power, should have TT'd the viper man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

holding up just fine so far, just no power shifting I think is the Key.

A former VR-4 owner I see. cool

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Hmmmmm. An Esprit is probably the LAST car I'd try to crank up to 750-1000HP. Too delicate. Too hard to find parts. Too rare to trash. For that, I'd go with a Viper, as a good friend of mine did. Broken parts are much easier to replace (and he's broken plenty), the the engine is much more robust (and heavy), and the transmission is, too. Plenty of 'em around to play with. Or with a Mitsu EVO, which is really heck on wheels, right out of the box. Lots of engines available, lots of performance shops sell parts. Not too pricey. AWD.

I like the Esprit for the whole package - the fact that it gets off the line relatively well, goes like heck, sounds great ('02 on or with aftermarket exhaust), fits me perfectly. Comparing the Esprit to a Toyota, Mitsu, etc. is like comparing a Timex to a Rolex. The Rolex does not keep better time - and who cares? It's more about style, feel and uniqueness. And the Timex is just fine for games, running, hiking, etc. where you just know you'll bash the thing up. Easy to replace. There's millions of 'em around.

What I can't understand is the British. They actually DRIVE their Esprits. Lots of British cars with 75K miles. Not too many with 500 HP, though. Well... there WAS that 5th Gear Esprit - sort of an embarrassment, I guess. (just kidding!)

In the '60's and 70's Chevelles, Mustangs, Pontiac GTOs a few years old were cheap, and we fixed em to go fast and broke 'em, fixed 'em..... Today, those cars are the Honda's, Mitsu's, Toyotas, etc. Sure. Crank 'em up! Blow 'em up. That's what they are for. But. Offer to trade a Lotus Esprit V8 for a "quicker" (I did not say "faster") rice rocket and I'll bet the ricemobile owner will jump at the offer.

I have one buddy who has boosted his Viper to nearly 900 RWHP via supercharger, chargecooler, ethanol injection, etc. He has the quicker and faster car, no doubt about it. And another has a Mitso EVO (that's on its 3rd engine and nth transmission) that performs about on par with the Viper in the 1/4 mile (lighter with 4-wheel traction). He's installed a rotary magazine to let him change clutches on the fly with the push of a button. (just kidding, again - but not a bad idea... hmmm patent time!) Both hang over the Esprit, though. And both recognize its not a car to beat on.

The funniest articles I've seen list the 1/4 mile and 0-60 times of Ferraris with F1 trannys using the "secret launch" mode. Secret because these cars, like the Esprit were never intended for drag racing. "Secret Launch" mode is also "secret self-destruct" mode. Built for high-speed driving in style - and great sound effects... at a price. Not drag racing. Which is where HP and Torque gains really help. Unless you really feel the need to exceed... 180 MPH. OK, OK.. maybe you do. Can I watch? From a safe distance, that is.

Thanks for life and stress-testing the Esprit V8. Glad its yours and not mine. Gordonie already did this and has explained to many what the results are.

Now I have to go into the garage and polish the V8 for a while. Why would anybody ever really drive this mobile piece of art? Note to myself: Need to change air in Esprit tires, rotate jackstands and apply a fresh coat of varnish to license plate.

Best Regards, with a little humor,

Jay

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what i'd like to know is how a mortal can cope with the extra 200-250 hp's on a circut? and matt, please use a little spell check. it will lend loads of credibility to your posts.

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what i'd like to know is how a mortal can cope with the extra 200-250 hp's on a circut? and matt, please use a little spell check. it will lend loads of credibility to your posts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember my first experience of track laps in an Esprit V8. When driving hard on a warm day, the engine needs a chance to cool down after 10-15 minutes; Without intercooling of any kind, the IAT just gets too high.

I may be wrong, but I don

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Mike,

i had that very issue with my car (run stock), i spent a huge amount of cash on a griffon radiator with bigger fans, and i seem to be going along allright. that being said, you don't go much longer than 15-20 minutes at a casual track day. i think i am going to take your advise on the tranny cooler, though.

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what i'd like to know is how a mortal can cope with the extra 200-250 hp's on a circut? and matt, please use a little spell check. it will lend loads of credibility to your posts.

What a ridiculous question!

How did the guys driving Group C cars manage 1000hp? Or the men driving Turbo F1's with 1200+hp out of a 1.5L V6, in a car weighing 1400lb?

The pedal on the right controls the power... Less power makes you go less fast... You don't have to use full throttle if you can't handle it!

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Mike,

i had that very issue with my car (run stock), i spent a huge amount of cash on a griffon radiator with bigger fans, and i seem to be going along allright. that being said, you don't go much longer than 15-20 minutes at a casual track day. i think i am going to take your advise on the tranny cooler, though.

As Mike said, high IAT causes problems.

IIRC the stock V8 Esprit IAT is often around 214deg F. The Esprit SE, with chargecooling, has MAT temps around 5deg higher than ambient (that's around 95deg F on a hot day). Makes a big difference in reliability and power.

With either system, a high intake temp will cause the ECU to reduce power to control knock.

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What a ridiculous question!

How did the guys driving Group C cars manage 1000hp?  Or the men driving Turbo F1's with 1200+hp out of a 1.5L V6, in a car weighing 1400lb?

The pedal on the right controls the power...  Less power makes you go less fast...  You don't have to use full throttle if you can't handle it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i doubt that anyone on this board is an f-1 driver, or a group "c" driver. i do enough track days to be realistic about the talent versus power equasion. and i wish you would quit responding to my posts because all you ever do is whine.

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Mike,

i had that very issue with my car (run stock), i spent a huge amount of cash on a griffon radiator with bigger fans, and i seem to be going along allright. that being said, you don't go much longer than 15-20 minutes at a casual track day. i think i am going to take your advise on the tranny cooler, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am confused you said that you had

IAT issue but you replaced your radiator

and fans and that fixed the problem?

are you talking about the engine or charge

cooler radiator?

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I am confused you said that you had

IAT issue but you replaced your radiator

and fans and that fixed the problem?

are you talking about the engine or charge

cooler radiator?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I

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I recently purchased a Lotus Omega and this has a charge-cooler for each of the two T25 turbos. The peak boost level is no higher than the Esprit and it still amazes me that Lotus elected not to intercool the V8 in any way..... 

Plus the Carlton/Omega chargecooler design is extremely compact, not adding much overall bulk to the engine. Although the Carlton's straight six would be a bit easier to work with than a V8.

But at the end of the day, the output of the V8 was never the problem. It was the gearbox's max 400 Nm torque (way less than the Carlton manages). Even without chargecooling the engine had to be further detuned to stay within this limit.

The stock V8 in 5th or S350 in 2-5 don't run the full 11psi boost until 5k. Below this it's reduced since the volumetric efficiency is better, and would result in more than 400Nm torque :)

But being positive, the end result is an incredibly flat 400Nm torque curve from 3k upwards which gives superb drivability...

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Plus the Carlton/Omega chargecooler design is extremely compact, not adding much overall bulk to the engine.  Although the Carlton's straight six would be a bit easier to work with than a V8.

But at the end of the day, the output of the V8 was never the problem.  It was the gearbox's max 400 Nm torque (way less than the Carlton manages).  Even without chargecooling the engine had to be further detuned to stay within this limit.

The stock V8 in 5th or S350 in 2-5 don't run the full 11psi boost until 5k.  Below this it's reduced since the volumetric efficiency is better, and would result in more than 400Nm torque  :(

But being positive, the end result is an incredibly flat 400Nm torque curve from 3k upwards which gives superb drivability...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, of course your right. In this case, charge-cooling would only make the detuning need greater. If Lotus could have worked outside of the constraints of the transmission, all V8 owners would be driving more performant machines.

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Yes, of course your right. In this case, charge-cooling would only make the detuning need greater. If Lotus could have worked outside of the constraints of the transmission, all V8 owners would be driving more performant machines.

Absolutely. I'd love to know the real story behind the Quaife six-speed box:

http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page13.htm

Lotus eventually backed out saying it would work out too expensive per unit. But they must have come pretty far. As I recall they got so far as a straight cut with bellhousing (obviously not suitable for the road) and a helical but no bell housing...

Even in minute numbers the Quaife box can still be fitted aftermarket for 10k. So if Lotus had gone with it for the Esprit, say 5k. I think that would have a fair premium - box with chargecooled V8 and you're talking 450-500bhp.

Ultimately, I reckon it's just a brick wall with the Esprit past 350bhp. Past that and the transaxle goes. Fix that and the driveshafts break. Fix that and the chassis starts bending. Etc...

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Absolutely.  I'd love to know the real story behind the Quaife six-speed box:

http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page13.htm

Lotus eventually backed out saying it would work out too expensive per unit.  But they must have come pretty far.  As I recall they got so far as a straight cut with bellhousing (obviously not suitable for the road) and a helical but no bell housing...

Even in minute numbers the Quaife box can still be fitted aftermarket for 10k.  So if Lotus had gone with it for the Esprit, say 5k.  I think that would have a fair premium - box with chargecooled V8 and you're talking 450-500bhp.

Ultimately, I reckon it's just a brick wall with the Esprit past 350bhp.  Past that and the transaxle goes.  Fix that and the driveshafts break.  Fix that and the chassis starts bending.  Etc...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I investigated the Quaife unit and even committed to buy a second hand unit, in excellent condition with some custom ratios. In the end I was advised to back-out by someone who had a first hand experience of using the transaxle on the race car. It was for them a cheap alternative to the Hewland transverse sequential (30K each and now no longer in production). When they installed and tested the gearbox, they just couldn

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