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With the advent of more and more smartphone/tablet sat nav is the death knell being rung for traditional standalone sat navs? iPhone satnav starts at £4.99 and even the most expensive is less than £70, who would spend £300 on a TomTom or even up to £2,000 for a built in system in a new car which is old software, clunky and £200+ for a maps update?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Ita fair point Guv. I have copilot on the Iphone. Its excellent at £25

Edited by rocket63

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

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I don't have a plan that includes unlimited internet access so I don't have GPS on my 'phone but we do have a 5 or 6-year old Garmin which we use often. I wonder which is more reliable, GPS reception or cellphone reception?

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Sometimes it's nice not having to navigate through a few (not many ) menus to get to sat nav on a phone, and with some people still not using that sort of phone you end up loaning it out (maybe that's a drawback of stand-alone sat nav).

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What you really need is sat/nav, music, phone, bluetooth, freescan, climate control. Touch screen controls, i'd fit in the console. Go to some boffin.

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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Audi is researching the possibility of including everything on their upmarket models. Heated seats, sat nav, bluetooth etc hardware will already be installed on the vehicle. However to activate them, you'll be required to purchase the appropriate app.

Stand alone sat navs will always be popular (the base model Garmin is under £80) simply because they are accessible and not everyone wants to have an iPhone. Car manufacturers do need to up their game with the inbuilt units and Renault are addressing this with a collaboration with TomTom

.

It's frankly a rediculous situation that a cheap sub £100 Tom Tom will out perform a dedicated system that's mostly fitted to German marques. The only complication is the fact that the screen is usually required for other functions of the car's info/hifi systems.

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The sat nav receiver chips in stand alone sat navs are a huge improvement over those included in phones (esp the current iphones).

Most phones are a compromised solution trying to do lots of different things so something has to give,

The iphone solution for example "works" but it can be quite a fragile signal. It doesn't matter which software you use as the problem is hardware related (although how the software copes does make a small difference).

However, that being said, I don't see why car's can't include a bluetooth GPS receiver as part of their standard spec and that would solve alot of problems with phones (bar the iphone which doesn't allow this although I think that may change as thats how the TomTom GPS enhancer cradle works).

But the story was similar to my Vauxhall VXR8 - it came as standard with the 9" Colour TFT screen in the centre console as this controls all the aircon and radio. *All* that was included when you ticked the sat nav box was a wired GPS receiever and a Nav DVD.

The price? £1500?!? I just don't get it - surely the majority of the cost was always the screen and the software - I actually found the software available direct from the manufacturer retail site for £200 so £1300 on supplying and fitting a wired GPS sensor that could only cost less than £30.

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No, becuase ;

1. not everyone has a GPS phone, not everyone has a phone, no everyone wants to pay super high tarrifs for a gadget phone.

2. GPS software is not portable over some makes of phone (see iPhone) - bad news when you wanna change phone :lol:

3. Performance is not as good as a dedicated unit

4. Shared platfrom issues (battery life, someone else can borrow it etc)

Having said that my GPS phone outshone itself this weekend.

Dunno any tomtom that is £300 ?

Check Halfords, a decent one is about £150-170 - which again when you bosh off the cost of a high contract phone is quite good sense.

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http://www.google.co...http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=GO+950+LIVE&hl=en&scoring=pd

Remember satnav on mobile devices is in it's infancy compared to the mature standalone market. Google are releasing free satnav on android devices too which could be a market changer. The more manufacturers see their chips ending up in smartphones the better they will become.

Not everyone does have a GPS smartphone but it won't be that long until they do. For the average Joe, given the choice between buying a standalone or getting the next free mobile upgrade with GPS, it makes sense which way they'll go and even boggo phones will have good GPS chips in them before long.

It is inevitable.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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iPod Touch? Dell Streak? Same price as a top end satnav with same features but tonnes more? You can see the point though or would you spec up a new mota with a £2k rubbish satnav still?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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It is inevitable

That may be true.... but at the moment I'm unwilling to let the smartphone companies 'experiment/iterate' on me until they get it right...... when 'getting it right' usually means a device upgrade at huge cost... yes, I know, lots of people can swing it via their business but I am not in that position.

My UK/Europe SatNav is 4 years old and still seems to work fine, but I must admit that the battery does not last as long, when unconnected, as it used to. My USA SatNav (Radio Shack cheapie) has served me, and 2 other people, well on 4 trips so far involving about 14 different states. But I have yet to find a phone, either Symbian or Windows which has a spreadsheet function that is truly to my liking and that's all I personally want out of a phone.

I can't see the attraction of being glued to a 2" screen, developing even rounder shoulders than I already have, oblivious to the dangers around me because I'm listening to 'my' music as I stumble under/hit oncoming traffic due to the constant distraction of trying to ignore real life by immersing myself in all sorts of apps/activities that I haven't realised I don't need because I'm blinded by the minature nature of the latest shiny/black gadget to hit the market.

I prefer mature technology rather than being an early adopter and chasing it with piles of cash.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

<br />

In practice, there is!

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You've never played Angry Birds have you...

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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You've never played Angry Birds have you...

I think I've been out with a few... but like these modern gizmos, they didn't last long!

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

<br />

In practice, there is!

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Bibs, those are mug's prices :whistle:

You can get 950 LIVE much cheaper in Halfords, net alone shopping around.

You cannot compare the 950 live against a mobile phone, phone apps are more comparable to the lower end satnavs. Navigon satnav on my iphone is anything but brilliant - it's good, when it works, but it has serious flaws.

The fact is linking in pricey software for things like satnav and games etc on 1 unit is how companies keep their audience fixed into a brand.

I've pretty much GOT to go on contract with a new iPhone or I can flush my perfectly functioning satnav down the toilet - thats the issue with rolling it all up into 1 - to some its a benefit, to others its a pain in the harris.

If you just want a satnav why on earth would you go out and buy an ipod touch and ponse about with itunes, buying an app etc when you'd save yourself about £100 on buying a decent dedicated system - it just doesn't tick everyones boxes.

Oh 1 huge flaw in the plan, last I looked, iPod Touch doesn't have GPS

:lol:

Edited by Jonathan

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Just as an aside, as I said to someone at the weekend, "When did an Apple product last, actually live up to the pre-release hype". :lol:

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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I don't have a plan that includes unlimited internet access so I don't have GPS on my 'phone but we do have a 5 or 6-year old Garmin which we use often. I wonder which is more reliable, GPS reception or cellphone reception?

I use the tomtom app on my iphone, it uses the built in GPS not cellular reception & does not need any internet access to work. The only internet access needed is to download the app in the first place which I did on my PC.

Oh 1 huge flaw in the plan, last I looked, iPod Touch doesn't have GPS

Doesn't need it mate, tomtom offer a car charger/cradle with built in GPS. It's not cheap at £99 but allows you to plug in your ipod (as long as you've purchased the tomtom app) so you can use your ipod touch as sat nav whilst transmitting your music to the radio.

tomtom_ipod_touch_specific_gps_car_kit.png

Oh, and you can convert your iphone to a pay as you go phone so you havn't GOT to keep on contract to avoid flushing your perfectly functioning satnav down the toilet.

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My dads just bought a sat nav purely because of the massive screen size it has.

:thumbsup:

A phone with sat nav would be absolutely useless to him, unless they start some trend in making massive mobile phones with 5" screens for those that want to use them for sat nav but don't want a poxy smartphone sized screen.

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It's out tomorrow :thumbsup:

http://www.o2.co.uk/dellstreak

dellStreak5.jpg

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Am sure he would still prefer a small 'phone sized' phone and a seperate massive sat nav unit mate.

This is why wristwatches with TV's never caught on, sometimes you want a watch the size of a watch and a big TV, not a clever mix of the two thats not as good as either.

:thumbsup:

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So you need a tomtom app £60 + £100 of cradle...you can get a respecable stand alone for that.

Perfect if you want to roll it up into 1 package but not so perfect when you upgrade your player or base kit and then find it doesnt fit the cradle (iphone 2G > 3G being a perfect example of small case changed to make ppl re-buy accessories they already had).

Thought of pay as you go, but tbh there is a lot of money locked up in the phone (mines scratch free / good nick) - if I went down that route I'd just sell the iphone and with the money buy a 1/2 decent standalone + change, which will be much better at the job and have a much better battery life.

Thing is I'm not going to get nothing back on the app bought with the phone so effectivly I am flushing it away unless I force myself to use it.

Its nice having an all singing all dancing, roll it all up into one bit of kit, but it doesn't always work out which is why standalones will most probably be there, cheaper and fit for their purpose.

We'll see what iPhone v4 (what ever the hell it's called) will offer.

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Map book..............£3.99

Works for me everytime,............................so far!!!

Dont worry,be happy.............

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Nissan Connect, offered on Qashqai, Note and Micra,and recently launched on a number of US models. Comes as a pack with bigger alloys, full length sun roof etc (depending on car). Fit rate currently running at around 50% on Qashqai. Developed in Cranfield, Beds, UK with wonderful suppliers based in Germany.

It proves that there is still a very definite demand for built in navi if it can add other functions (ipod control, Bluetooth connectivity, reversing camera etc) , offer the benefits of full integration and still be offered to the customer at a price that isn't too far removed from that of a high end PND.

Edited by Malc Holmes
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Laura, dont get me wrong....I dont hate the iphone (shock / horror), this weekend it was absolutly invaluable and I would have been totally shafted without it.

I just think it's 75% of what it could be, it started off as an amazing tool backed by good developers thats been junked into a money spinning cash cow / marketing ploy. I do however fully hate Apple / itunes.

Satnav is just one of the niggles that grinds my gears over it - I'll prove I dont hate it becuase as a browser, email client, photo browser, music player and all around handy item (conversion, shares, weather, news, maps) - it is outstanding.

Example - Why for the love of god does the iPhone STILL not support GPS dongles via bluetooth to make the thing so much more accurate ? Answer, buy the tomtom cradle at £100, I rest my case...

Sticking to 1 brand becuase you buy into the extra software is something I have learned not to tow the particular line to just from owning the phone - thats why I haven't bought an app on itunes for months, possibly a year becuase people bring out better phones with different and more attractive ideas. That makes all your investment a complete waste of time and only serves to line Steve Job's pockets. Some people are happy with that, I'm just not one of them, I'd rather have the choice to change if I want to.

IF the iPhone was be all and end all (I wish it was) I'd buy into it, but it's not - the competition is equally as good - if I chose to move to another phone because of a myriad o reasons, there's no way in hell I'll buy a satnav program for it - lesson learned.

Thats not just a dig at apple / iphone - it's a dig at the system.

My point is Satnav on mobile devices is still flawed :

- The device is not powerful enough to run it as quick and smoothly as a dedicated unit.

- GPS reception is sketchy, and not as good as a standalone - my phone has lost signal / crashed too many times at critical stages now.

- You cannot change phone and easily (if at all) take your software with you across brands.

It does have some very good bonuses I will admit, but I can live without that.

This goes for anything I have seen on the market upto about 3 months ago, and why if I do change phones at the end of the month I will highly likely buy a standalone GPS system.

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