S3 1982 NA reluctant starter

[pas]

Since my son was born (2 yrs!) the S3 NA esprit 1982 has done only a few 100 miles sadly, but all that is about to change.

However, poss due to the lack of use it is a really poor starter. To be precise: fuel is fine, battery fine, no choke connected, usual two pumps of the peddle gets her going. Now she'll fire up, cough and splutter but the moment I breath on the throttle she cuts out.

My garage reckon unleaded fuel has deterioted the carb diaphragm. I use unleaded with my own phosporus additive from Halfords and have done for years now.

So my question: Anyone reckon it could be other than the diaphragm, and is this a job I can do myself? Can we get Dellorto kits, and will I ever be able to tune it again?

I'm getting desparate now, coz summer's on its way.

Please post any relevant info re Dellorto's, much appreciated.

[nicksoldies]

You can get the overhaul kits from the specialists. I overhauled a pair of Dellortos on a non Turbo S3 a few years back. I bought my kits from Paul Matty. It's not too difficult to do the work, the kits are very comprehensive but don't include the carb' mounting 'O' rings so you should really buy eight of them as well. I found it was neccesary to get the float levels very accurate to obtain perfect response but it was worth the effort.

I could well see that if the accelerator pump diaphrams have split, it could give the symtoms you mention, but I would have expected only one to do so which means it should only affect the front or rear pair of cylinders, even though there is a balance pipe. More likely gummed up jets if it has stood a fair while.

[Ray]

Hi Paul

Have you still got the same fuel that you had 2 years ago, if you have this may be part of the problem as the fuel deteriorates with time. If there is only a small amount in the tanks then putting some more in will dilute the old and be ok.

Then once the car is started and up to temp a good run should help clear all the jets that may have clogged up bit while the car as just been standing.

Hope this helps

Ray

[WayneB]

I agree with your garage man, the fuel has rotted out the carb accelerator pump diaphragms.

Modern fuels have all sorts of god knows what addatives and seem to eat the non-metal components in the carbs.

And as the others have mentioned they turn to a gell if left too long.

If you are lucky you might get away with changing the diaphragms with the carbs in situe, be carefull not to loose the springs

I get my Dellorto spares fromGower and lee

Dont buy any cut price made in godknows where Dellorto accelerator pump diaphagms as they wont last 5 minutes.

Edited March 18, 2006 by WayneB

[pitstoppete]

after youve changed anything thats knackered, try actually making the chokes work, as they are the best way of starting the engine from cold. pumping away at the gas is bad news.

dellortos - choke out 3/4 of an inch, ign on, pump clicking away i hope, crank crank, no gas pedal. they should start like that, lovely sucking of air noises, and its the best way. no gas pedal. no bore wash. proper atomised mix.

[WayneB]

Paul, I found this place on Ebay that sells Dellorto Rebuild kits for 31 quid (for both carbs)

They also have the kits for the Turbos at 69 quid (cheap) I ordered a spare kit for my car

Dellorto Rebuild Kits

Its true what Pete says about the choke, your engine will last longer if you use it instead of pumping the gas pedal to start it.

[Jussi]

How's the engine last better with choke?

On my previous racecars there was trouble if I tried to start with choke (other had double solexes and the other double dellortos). Then we get rid off that choke, it started a lot better with pumping the gas.

[WayneB]

Jussi, every time you pump the gas pedal to start the engine, it squirts raw fuel into the engine.

Some of this fuel washes the oil deposits off the cylinder walls, and finds its way into the oil in the sump(diluting it)

This leads to premiture wear of the piston rings/cylinder walls and bearing and oil pump components.

My race cars have the chokes removed or blocked off also, (so they dont cause a airflow restriction, or have to have the linkage installed) but as they are warmed up fully before operation, it doesnt matter so much (and they are rebuilt frequently)

But bore wash will wear out a road engine quite quickly!

As for your starting problems with your racecar, (using the choke) , your carbs were either jetted too rich, or the choke was not adjusted correctly/ malfunctioning.

Edited March 19, 2006 by WayneB

[molemot]

If two pumps of the pedal gets it going, then the accelerator pumps are obviously still working. Thus the pump diaphragms are probably intact. You may well have blocked jets; these can be removed and inspected with carbs. in situ. As previously suggested, if your fuel is twoyears old, this is likely to be your problem as petrol does deteriorate with age and will give exactly the symptoms you describe. With regard to the "choke/no choke" argument; I had an Alfa with twin DCOE Webers which would not start if you used the choke; conversely, my Esprit turbo won't start without it! The Esprit seems to like to start with full choke and no throttle; once running, it takes a little while before it will accept any throttle and the transition has to be done with finesse - but then it's fine. This only applies to initial cold starts.

Finally, it's always a good idea to inspect and diagnose before you buy any parts; spending money on stuff you find you don't need tends to be galling!

Edited March 20, 2006 by molemot

[Jussi]

Wayne, choke was fine (had 3 cars and all have the same problem). Maybe carbs were too rich, still they were highly tuned engines and some problems with lower rews, after 5000rpm. they started to sing

I remembered that you don't use choke on your car at all...or was I wrong

[WayneB]

Pull the air filter and look down the throats of the carbs (use a mirror if you cant see otherwise)

Operate the throttle linkage to the fully wide open position, you will see (and smell) the fuel squirting if the diaphagms are good.

Moleman, I have had cars that start with knackered accelerator pumps, so its still poss there shagged.

Its also a good idea to change them once in a while as they start leaking, drip fuel on the dizzy and cause a fire (small if your lucky)

Edited March 20, 2006 by WayneB

[WayneB]

Wayne, choke was fine (had 3 cars and all have the same problem). Maybe carbs were too rich, still they were highly tuned engines and some problems with lower rews, after 5000rpm. they started to sing 

I remembered that you don't use choke on your car at all...or was I wrong 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jussi, I always use the choke on my car (starting it from cold)

It runs like sh*t without it(until its warmed up)

[pas]

Wow, guys thanks for all the advice.

It's an interesting topic on whether to use choke or not to start. I guess we all have our methods, my very trusted previous garage recommended I didn't choke and actually cut the cable (I use the cable switch in the cabin to turn on my stereo amplifier!).

Sounds like I will just have to give it a blast on the motorway and see if it clears the jets! The fuel isn't old and was refreshed recently. I use unleaded but add my own additive, but I agree there's still a lot of cr*p in the fuel that our cars just weren't built to handle.

Anyone else had similar symptons though?

[WayneB]

Paul, an old school method of cleaning carb jets was to stuff a rag in the carb intakes (one at a time) with the engine idling to induce a vacuum into the carb throat and hopefully suck out any shit in the jets.

Try that (its free)

[molemot]

Not only free, but often effective...done it myself several times; I usually stick my palm over the intake - that way you're less likely to get stuff sucked into the maw of the motor. Could lose your watch - or arm(!) though. Choke or no choke: all engines have their own personalities. Don't ever fall into the trap of thinking machinery has no feelings! My old Alfa used to sulk if I left it locked up all week and refused to start on Friday night for the drive back to London from the RAF. If I just opened the garage door a couple of times and said "Hello!", started up perfectly. No choke, though, wouldn't start with it!

[WayneB]

My Marina van would never start if I parked it the night before facing into the wind!

Something to do with damp air not being compatible with its fabulous ignition system

No problems so far starting my 1974 Alfa 2000 GTV (yet)