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Lotus T125


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Of course if this were a way of circumventing the testing restrictions of formula one. :devil:

Eheh, yes Trulli and Kovalainen would have to be there to show the customers how to use their new T125... :)

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  • Gold FFM

OK, now I see all this discousionis only about the T125 monoposto track-day car. But even with this in mind -would'nt be way cheaper to have an used F3000 or similar to go for the *Euro-Boss* series ?!

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Why do people buy Aston Martin's when Toyota is a much cheaper way to own a car. The Exos is different Gunter, not everyone wants to race an F3000.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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The Exos T125 at the Pebble Beach show.

When I asked Why, the answer was: To show the world that Lotus is back with it's strong lead in the automotive engineering world. For a price just a little north of one million dollars you also get one year of Lotus support at the European club racing series. US buyers can buy the car without the support for less money. This is basically a F1 club racing car!

Wayne

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Edited by WEllison

The Older I get the Faster I was

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As for buying in chassis...Lotus always used to; the original Elan chassis had a bought in works cost of about £10, iirc...

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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I am sorry you think this is so crazy, maybe someone else shares you opinion, maybe someone else shares mine.

Anyway I am referring specifically to the chassis and chassis components; instances of companies using externally sourced engines are abundant, whereas instances of companies outsourcing the chassis and most other chassis parts are not that many, and those latter instances are the ones I consider somewhat degrading.

I am sorry but using somebody else's engine is not quite the same as using somebody else's chassis, bodywork, suspensions, brakes, aerodynamics, etc. or is it?

I also doubt that they turn up completely ready-made, but if that was the case (or similar) then I would definitely consider that degrading.

How do you know that this chassis hasn't been designed by lotus just manufactured by somebody else?

As in with every elise and exige ever made for example?

To say Lotus had zero input on the chassis design I think is crazy.

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What interests me is the 640BHP at 9800 revs for a 650kg car, and it has a "push to pass" button that takes it up to 10,800 revs. Max torque is 450Nm at 7800 revs. The Cosworth GPV8 with the PectelSQ6 ECU shouldn't get too stressed.

Potential owners should be heading for the gym to strengthen their neck and arm muscles

Why is it set to run at 101RON when race fuel is 102? The 55 litre fuel tank isn't exactly generous.

The choice of a 4 point harness is also baffling.

The A5 EXOS booklet has an air of space style mystery with a simple statement on the front "live beyond."

The whole concept looks like it will deliver the expected conflicts akin to the Marmite issue, but will it be sufficient to stir the non Lotus fans into looking more closely at the brand? A hook to catch the new customer base willing to spend £80,000+ on the next new road car base model?

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So far we've had plenty of posts saying what people who buy old F1 and other racing cars would do but none from anyone who is actually in that position and I'm not about to change that now.

However, I did speak to a guy I know who is in that position, owning an ex-Andretti 79, several other DFV-powered F1 cars, which he regarded as relatively inexpensive and cheap to run, and some Le Mans series prototype class sports cars. He also drives the F1 cars in historic GP races, with a lot of success. Despite having been in Monterey last weekend, he wasn't aware of the Exos. I explained the car to him and he said that he wouldn't be interested as he was more interested in the car's history rather than a trackday toy. He also talked about the Corsa Cliente programme with Ferrari where they look after the car and you turn up to drive and are treated as a VIP which, he felt, pandered to the egos of the people who go into that programme and can buy whatever they want.

To summarise, he didn't think it would have much appeal to people like him (who want cars with history) or to those who can afford an ex-F1 Ferrari. This is not to say, of course, that there isn't a third group who want the thrill without the big investment in car, crew, service or worry of smashing up an irreplaceable car.

I suspect there is another market no-one has mentioned yet. Several companies offer drives of old F1 cars, usually old Benettons and Arrows powered by Judd V10s. These look old-fashioned now. Usually run the wrong engine which reduces their value and provenance. I would imagine that spares are hard to get and the engines need more frequent rebuilds than the Cosworth. So, I imagine, the Exos would appeal to these companies as an alternative experience to sell.

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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The 55 litre fuel tank isn't exactly generous.

This is an interesting point, and when I first read the car's specs I wondered if the capacity cited was a typo. It equates to just over 14 and a half gallons (U.S). Wiki says the average F1 car gets a shade over 3mpg, The official F1 site says 4mpg. These figures, of course, are based on using racing fuel and a powerplant turning up to 18,000 RPM, almost twice the T125 numbers. So it's somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison, but still provides a jumping off point for Exos mpg considerations.

Let's assume an optimistic 5mpg ("at speed") for the Exos. That gives a range of 72.5 miles to dry tanks. Subtract [say] 2 gallons as a "reserve" and an allowance for possible fuel guage inaccuracies (do they have a guage?), and the usable range becomes 62.5 miles. The average F1 course is around 3 miles long, providing the lucky owner with about 20 laps of spirited driving experience per outing.

Is that sufficient? Personal taste and limitations now enter the equation. For some, the physical strength required for 20 laps of intense driving might prove to be a reach. For more fit individuals it might be merely a "tease."

Thoughts?

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Of no importance since the car most likely will be impailed in a fence with 49 litres left.

Average competence of your average mega wealthy ego tripper.

No brakes until up to racing temperature,

No downforce until racing speeds.

Either "F1 Experience" is optimistic, or I'm returning to the UK to commence business repairing T125s. :yes:

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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It wouldn't surprise me if the brake compound was "learner friendly" and so not quite so fussy with temps. As the owner improved different setups could be swapped out.

I know what you're saying about 20 lap range however after 5 laps in a f1 car I was seriously fecked.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if the smaller tank was to meet some safety regs... not sure though.

Also smaller tank reduces the fuel burn effect and with rookie drivers you don't want a car that suddenly transforms the handling after 20 laps.

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That gives a range of 72.5 miles to dry tanks. Subtract [say] 2 gallons as a "reserve" and an allowance for possible fuel guage inaccuracies (do they have a guage?), and the usable range becomes 62.5 miles. The average F1 course is around 3 miles long, providing the lucky owner with about 20 laps of spirited driving experience per outing.

Is that sufficient? Personal taste and limitations now enter the equation. For some, the physical strength required for 20 laps of intense driving might prove to be a reach. For more fit individuals it might be merely a "tease."

Thoughts?

I only get between 80-90 miles out of my 211 when on track........................ and that'll be a less tiring drive than the Exos.

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My vicarious thoughts ride with you, Jo. The only 211 I own would be the post at the top of the page.:D

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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  • Gold FFM

Bibs, can see one positive thing in the T125 -this engine ...will it be available for the Esprit ?! :animier:

'gear driven doh-camshaft' ...whohoo ! 640HP - If we can get the gearbox too .. every owner of the past cars will love it :harhar:

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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Like it's pointed out above, I don't think many would make 4500km......

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My back of the envelope calculation says 4500 km = 2796.1703650665 miles (it's a long envelope). Divided by 3 that equals 932.0567883555 laps of high quality driving entertainment. Divide 932 by [say] 60 laps to get a shade over 15 equivalent grand prix "events," not quite a season's worth, but still pretty good bang for the buck.

All of this assumes, of course, many things. Not the least of which is whether on not an Exos powered Esprit would be permitted to compete "out of category" on an F1 track (not likely), and can the lucky owner manage to complete 15 grand prixs without a shunt (as alluded to above, even less likely)?

My suspicion is that the owner would be tasked with considerably greater "rebuilds" of chassis components, long before the engine rebuild would become a player--excepting the not all together improbable likelihood of a blown engine early in the "season."

Now, what Gunter is talking about is more along the lines of "daily driver" fun 'n games. Needless to say, a 640hp Esprit would be an animal indeed, a tarmac predator to be reckoned with for certain. The larger issue would be just how one decided to "ration out" those precious 2,796 miles of glory. Many Esprit owners already ration out the miles on general principle----riding the fine line between special pleasure driving time and garage queen storage. For them a 4500km rebuild requirement might just be doable. But really deep pockets would ease the journey.:yes:

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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  • Gold FFM

lets say so, an 918 can run a lot of miles without an rebuild -as long as you keep an eye on the belts & water consumption :detective:

...but from technical terms i think it is an interesting engine within the Exos ..my Diesel-estate is fitted with an 'gear driven' valve timing system too ..307.890km, a damaged rocker arm, perforatet liner , no oil change for the last 30.000km or so ...and it just does not want to die for some mysterious reasons.

The factory should offer me an Exos for hard-core testing ...just to prove how good it really is :welcome:

But for fun days on weekends I still would prefer an Euro-Boss compatible 'older' car ..as long as I would have to pay my own money for that matter. All those F1/F3000 single seaters are still fast enough for most not so professional enthusiast we could say.

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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Fortunately I guess their market research extended beyond just asking you! :lol:

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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  • Gold FFM

for my Master-studies there will still be an placement needed ...so the 'Lotus' project is not dead for me in this term :animier:

And I think you need to be emothionless for engine testing :whistle: -or is it just my 'heavy transport' :construction: comercial truck mechanics background that influenced me on this?

post-1463-039989800 1283117804.jpg this does not match the Exos on simple HP rating ..but I'm sure the *Cursor*-engine in it would rip the monoposto in pieces anway :thumbsup:

Edited by Günter

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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  • 3 weeks later...

Oooh, oooh........hold on a moment.........I think I know who that is, even if the shot is off center.

So what are the Blues Brothers doing in Monterey anyway?

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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  • 2 months later...

Feeling wealthy?

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The itinerary is not quiet as impressive as thought, 2011 will be 4 track days at Hethel and they'll take you to F1 races as a top flight guest* if you like. (*all F1 packages are an extra cost!).

Great if you're a gazillionaire!

Here's the whole brochure...

Type 125 EXOS.pdf

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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