superdavelotus Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I had the pleassure of volunteering to man the PNM stand this weekend at the Lotus show. I've been working with Pete to remake certain parts to make them more affordable to owners. I do the donkey work by taking every dimension then making a CAD drawing and PNM get it made. I had a CAD drawing on the wall at the show to show the remanufacturing side of PNM which had all the dimensions on. I didn't think people would stoop so low as to take pictures to try and get it made themselves! I even had one group of Lotus owners asking if they could buy the drawing! I said I could send them a free copy without the dims on, they said it was the dims that they were only interested in! How cheeky is that? The they tried to take a picture of it so I asked then kindly not to. They still hung around and had a discussion how to sneek a photo without me looking and how they were going to get a small group of Lotus owners to chip in and get it made cheaper! I was assuming the part they were referring to was the dash mask which PNm were doing a show special price of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Dave, That'll be $125 for the 'therapy' post. Please send an additional $125 if you want a 'therapy' reply... I know your feelings. I am in the service business and can't tell you how many times people want something for nothing...'Time' can't be manufactured. When it has been used, it can't be returned or replaced. Don't slip while on your soapbox. - Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanR Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Display it next time with the wrong dimensions! Quote DanR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fflyingdog Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Display it next time with the wrong dimensions! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very good point .............but you are assuming Dave hadn't already done that and it was all a conspiracy..................... Quote Simplest things first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyarse Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Display it next time with the wrong dimensions! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That'll teach em! I know what you mean though Dave, would have wound me up to!! Cheers Andy Quote MK1 Volkswagen Golf Owners Club Well, had to get this one in if anyones interested?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 As you know I do some design work. Plagerism and idea nicking is rife in my business. Had my stuff stolen (and used) without being paid a few times Not a lot you can do though Lawyers dont come cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_hooper Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) I had the pleassure of volunteering to man the PNM stand this weekend at the Lotus show. I've been working with Pete to remake certain parts to make them more affordable to owners. I do the donkey work by taking every dimension then making a CAD drawing and PNM get it made. I had a CAD drawing on the wall at the show to show the remanufacturing side of PNM which had all the dimensions on. I didn't think people would stoop so low as to take pictures to try and get it made themselves! I even had one group of Lotus owners asking if they could buy the drawing! I said I could send them a free copy without the dims on, they said it was the dims that they were only interested in! How cheeky is that? The they tried to take a picture of it so I asked then kindly not to. They still hung around and had a discussion how to sneek a photo without me looking and how they were going to get a small group of Lotus owners to chip in and get it made cheaper! I was assuming the part they were referring to was the dash mask which PNm were doing a show special price of Edited March 20, 2006 by jeff_hooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 True, I'm no business head but i guess the cost and develpment costs of making an aftermarket part are recouped in the selling of that part? This means if someone swipes the plans/moulds of the part then of course they can make it cheaper as there are no costs to recoup. So it's still stealing someones labours, albeit on a copied part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragingfool35 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) those cheap bastards! can you send me a copy of the drawing with dimensions? Edited March 21, 2006 by ragingfool35 Quote chris90SEjust because I don't CARE doesn't mean I don't UNDERDSTAND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdavelotus Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Jeff, I know exactly what you mean about PNM copying something then me moaning about someone trying to copy them. The point I was making is that Iam all for anyone else taking their own dimensions which I did then making it themselves. It's when they try to use the dims I have drawn that becomes an issue. I say the more competition then the end result is the owners get parts cheaper. PNM don't put big mark ups on new remanufactured parts like others do. Iam surprised really as they are sometimes the only company who make a certain part but don't capitalise on this. They have a different approach (which Iam still trying to understand?) Pete at PNM isn't the one here doing the moaning and he said that who ever did take the pictures are welcome to getting the parts made. The moaning was from ME. Iam looking at it another way, PNM have priced this pretty low to attrach owners but yet some owners, still want something for nothing. Look, I am really no big fan of LOTUS factory practices on parts with rebagging of other manufacturers stuff with a substantial mark up and also the practice of restrictive contracts with manufacturers to stop owners obtaining direct supplies. Top marks to PNM as they do seem to be pro-active in supporting/enhancing the Esprit mark, more than the factory is prepared to do from my recent experience. But lets stand back and look at this Blog in simple terms. Someone who has copied someones else's stuff is complaining about themselves potentially being copied...... doesn't that sound a bit weird.. Still standing back. it doesn't sounds an awfull lot different to a pirate DVD copier complaining about someone pirating there pirate DVD's....! I appreciate that in legal terms that may be a poor comparison and a completely different issue here and in this case there may be no intellectual or copyright issues involved.... Yes, someone has made the investment of time skill and effort to make the copy, but a copy is a copy and as such can never stand in the same moral ground as the original. Jeff <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissV8 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hey Dave Thanks again for the chat on Saturday - was good to meet you! Now I have to say I fully agree with Dave - Sorry, but that's just cheap! Dave & PNM went to the effort of getting the work done and offering a great product at a great price for the show.... really, what more do people want? How much are you actually going to save by getting your own made?.... a couple of quid perhaps? My view - people should show support for companies like PNM who go to lengths to support the Esprit community. It's a bit like the other cheap skates who buy the Esprit DVD's from eBay instead of from Kato.... just to save a couple of quid! Sad! Quote Rob S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toua Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 plagirism is a bitch! do that in school, and your banned for life from every damn college or work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason S4s Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I'm with Dave. He spent a lot of time working the drawings out to fit the car, so he took the same steps Lotus did and produced a part that looks very much a like but is (in tiny ways) dfferent. I bet Lotus didn't come up with the original idea of sticking ali to a dash so his product is engineered to do the same job in the same way it is bound to look the same. Weras the 'others' just want to produce cheap exact copies of his design. Its like someone painting a copy of the Mona Lisa and someone else putting it on a colour photocopier. One took skill and work, the other didn't and is pointless. just my 2p. Keep it up Dave & don't let the scum grind you down. Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdavelotus Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Thanks Jason! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket63 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I believe the point here is more about the effort that individuals have taken upon their self to provide after market parts and accessories for our cars. I for one whole heartedly support Dave's view on this matter. Its hard enough to find specialists for the Esprit in the first place, let alone find aftermarket parts that enhance the car and give an alternative choice of style or design. And thats before you even consider any time and investment involved in the process. So my 2p says, spot on Dave Quote Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!! Lotus Espirt Turbo S3 Lotus Esprit S4 Lotus Elise S2 Sport 130 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Dr_Fish Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Jeff - I have to say, it's not at all like pirating a DVD... It's more like getting your own bunch of actors and re-enacting it... If he had snuck into the lotus offices and pinched the blueprints.. THEN it would be the same! Where he wouldn't have any moral high-ground is if they said "great idea I'm going to do that ...and can do it cheaper" and go off and do it themselves. That's when he couldn't then compain. A LOT of time and effort had been put into reverse engineering it. Measuring, testing, and re-measuring - the dimensions WERE all the work and labour They had put in the shoe leather re-engineering that piece and they were trying to pinch his 'effort' NOT pinch the idea of making a mask. I think it's completely different and they were bang out of order... and they KNEW it - that's why they were trying to sneak the pics! If people just do third parties out of their work then people will stop developing all these after-market products we're all so keen to buy! Good on you Dave Quote "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me." ------------------------------ G-Car Owner and Proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Well said fishy! Quote kato http://www.lotusespritworld.com' target='_blank'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.