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I had the pleassure of volunteering to man the PNM stand this weekend at the Lotus show.

I've been working with Pete to remake certain parts to make them more affordable to owners. I do the donkey work by taking every dimension then making a CAD drawing and PNM get it made.

I had a CAD drawing on the wall at the show to show the remanufacturing side of PNM which had all the dimensions on. I didn't think people would stoop so low as to take pictures to try and get it made themselves! I even had one group of Lotus owners asking if they could buy the drawing! I said I could send them a free copy without the dims on, they said it was the dims that they were only interested in! How cheeky is that?

The they tried to take a picture of it so I asked then kindly not to. They still hung around and had a discussion how to sneek a photo without me looking and how they were going to get a small group of Lotus owners to chip in and get it made cheaper!

I was assuming the part they were referring to was the dash mask which PNm were doing a show special price of

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Dave,

That'll be $125 for the 'therapy' post. Please send an additional $125 if you want a 'therapy' reply... :lol:

I know your feelings. I am in the service business and can't tell you how many times people want something for nothing...'Time' can't be manufactured. When it has been used, it can't be returned or replaced.

Don't slip while on your soapbox.

- Cliff

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I had the pleassure of volunteering to man the PNM stand this weekend at the Lotus show.

I've been working with Pete to remake certain parts to make them more affordable to owners. I do the donkey work by taking every dimension then making a CAD drawing and PNM get it made.

I had a CAD drawing on the wall at the show to show the remanufacturing side of PNM which had all the dimensions on. I didn't think people would stoop so low as to take pictures to try and get it made themselves! I even had one group of Lotus owners asking if they could buy the drawing! I said I could send them a free copy without the dims on, they said it was the dims that they were only interested in! How cheeky is that?

The they tried to take a picture of it so I asked then kindly not to. They still hung around and had a discussion how to sneek a photo without me looking and how they were going to get a small group of Lotus owners to chip in and get it made cheaper!

I was assuming the part they were referring to was the dash mask which PNm were doing a show special price of

Edited by jeff_hooper
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True,

I'm no business head but i guess the cost and develpment costs of

making an aftermarket part are recouped in the selling of that part?

This means if someone swipes the plans/moulds of the part then of

course they can make it cheaper as there are no costs to recoup.

So it's still stealing someones labours, albeit on a copied part.

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Jeff,

I know exactly what you mean about PNM copying something then me moaning about someone trying to copy them.

The point I was making is that Iam all for anyone else taking their own dimensions which I did then making it themselves. It's when they try to use the dims I have drawn that becomes an issue. I say the more competition then the end result is the owners get parts cheaper.

PNM don't put big mark ups on new remanufactured parts like others do. Iam surprised really as they are sometimes the only company who make a certain part but don't capitalise on this. They have a different approach (which Iam still trying to understand?)

Pete at PNM isn't the one here doing the moaning and he said that who ever did take the pictures are welcome to getting the parts made. The moaning was from ME. Iam looking at it another way, PNM have priced this pretty low to attrach owners but yet some owners, still want something for nothing.

Look, I am really no big fan of LOTUS factory practices on parts with rebagging of other manufacturers stuff with a substantial mark up and also the practice of restrictive contracts with manufacturers to stop owners obtaining direct supplies.

Top marks to PNM as they do seem to be pro-active in supporting/enhancing the Esprit mark, more than the factory is prepared to do from my recent experience.

But lets stand back and look at this Blog in simple terms. Someone who has copied someones else's stuff is complaining about themselves potentially being copied...... doesn't that sound a bit weird.. Still standing back. it doesn't sounds an awfull lot different to a pirate DVD copier complaining about someone pirating there pirate DVD's....!

I appreciate that in legal terms that may be a poor comparison and a completely different issue here and in this case there may be no intellectual or copyright issues involved....

Yes, someone has made the investment of time skill and effort to make the copy, but a copy is a copy and as such can never stand in the same moral ground as the original.

Jeff

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Hey Dave

Thanks again for the chat on Saturday - was good to meet you!

Now I have to say I fully agree with Dave - Sorry, but that's just cheap!

Dave & PNM went to the effort of getting the work done and offering a great product at a great price for the show.... really, what more do people want? How much are you actually going to save by getting your own made?.... a couple of quid perhaps?

My view - people should show support for companies like PNM who go to lengths to support the Esprit community.

It's a bit like the other cheap skates who buy the Esprit DVD's from eBay instead of from Kato.... just to save a couple of quid! Sad!

Rob S
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I'm with Dave.

He spent a lot of time working the drawings out to fit the car, so he took the same steps Lotus did and produced a part that looks very much a like but is (in tiny ways) dfferent.

I bet Lotus didn't come up with the original idea of sticking ali to a dash so his product is engineered to do the same job in the same way it is bound to look the same.

Weras the 'others' just want to produce cheap exact copies of his design.

Its like someone painting a copy of the Mona Lisa and someone else putting it on a colour photocopier.

One took skill and work, the other didn't and is pointless.

just my 2p.

Keep it up Dave & don't let the scum grind you down.

Jason.

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I believe the point here is more about the effort that individuals have taken upon their self to provide after market parts and accessories for our cars. I for one whole heartedly support Dave's view on this matter.

Its hard enough to find specialists for the Esprit in the first place, let alone find aftermarket parts that enhance the car and give an alternative choice of style or design. And thats before you even consider any time and investment involved in the process.

So my 2p says, spot on Dave <_<

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

Lotus Espirt Turbo S3    

Lotus Esprit S4 

Lotus Elise S2 Sport 130

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Jeff - I have to say, it's not at all like pirating a DVD... It's more like getting your own bunch of actors and re-enacting it...

If he had snuck into the lotus offices and pinched the blueprints.. THEN it would be the same!

Where he wouldn't have any moral high-ground is if they said "great idea I'm going to do that ...and can do it cheaper" and go off and do it themselves. That's when he couldn't then compain.

A LOT of time and effort had been put into reverse engineering it. Measuring, testing, and re-measuring - the dimensions WERE all the work and labour

They had put in the shoe leather re-engineering that piece and they were trying to pinch his 'effort' NOT pinch the idea of making a mask.

I think it's completely different and they were bang out of order... and they KNEW it - that's why they were trying to sneak the pics! If people just do third parties out of their work then people will stop developing all these after-market products we're all so keen to buy!

Good on you Dave :D

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

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