Cliff Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Ferrari not fast enough. Buyer wants refund... http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Next people are going to start wanting money back, because the vehicle doesn't get the rated fuel economy.... my Toyota doesn't get 60mph.... Oh jeez it only does 175... Quote Joey Spencer WV Found my Esprit, but due to family issues, money went to other things I guess I just have to wait for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EspritMiltonKeynes Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) Hmmmmm..... Personally I have no desire to reach such insane speeds even on an autobahn. A casual 120mph does me quite fine. Any faster and I don't actually trust myself... It's also the maximum speed pursuit police cars are allowed to drive at here in the UK. However... trading standards are trading standards. And if it won't do 186mph when brand new and straight out of the factory then it's a bit cheeky to advertise it as such. If it were 183mph or 181mph I'd say 'on another day, with a following wind' - BUT 175mph is a full 11mph under the stated and a worrying 94% of the advertised top speed. On a completely separate note: a 60yr old German in a Red Ferrari? wtf?? It works if you're Don Corleone and doing 25mph through twisting Sicilian farmtracks but PLEASE... someone get this man a top end Merc! He can spend the rest down at the playboy mansion.... Edited March 21, 2006 by EspritMiltonKeynes Quote EspritMiltonKeynes - ironically now lives in Edinburgh London (SE4) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Not really suprised as alot of cars wont reach their advertised top speed I think he should get his money back or have the car "fixed" so it will go as fast as advertised. Poor bastard probably hates Porsches chewing on his ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Under what conditions is the top speed rated by ferrari? Am i being dumb, but i'd expect them to get that figure in a car with no passenger, no spare wheel, perfect road surface, favourable wind or at least no side wind, and just enough fuel to get the figure etc.. hard to reproduce on the road. Or are there stricter fairer guidelines they have to follow? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) Dont Ferrari do all there high speed testing at Nardo in Italy? I heard the Esprit SE will only do 95 mph with an electrician driving, catwoman as a passenger and a trunk full of chocolate eggs Edited March 21, 2006 by WayneB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esprit350 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 not true Wayne I was behind paul and oneshot on the run to lisa's on sunday and it was many bananas faster than 95 !!!! Quote The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. Friedrich Nietzsche find me on Tripadvisor http://www.tripadvis...mbers/espritguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toua Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 ok ok... so does the Esprit really reach 175mph as advertise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Depends if you trust the speedo or not. On my private test track I have done x2 the uk limit yet GPS was telling me I was about 10 mph slower. Look at the gear ratios / RPM / wheel size to calculate theoretical values but as paul says these speeds are probably chaieved on an optimum day (air temperature is important) wind direction and laden weight...fill the car up with fuel increases its weight thus requireing more hp to get to the top. Quote facebook = jon.himself@hotmail.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Lotus got the stock V8 to do 175mph at Nardo. That's an 11km circle and even that's not enough due to the scrubbing of the front outer tyre. If you want the true top speed you need something like a dry lake (e.g. Bonneville) but the salt is murder. The longest tarmac straight is the old VW test track at Ehra Lessien - which is 9km if I recall. The Macca F1 did it's 241 there as did the Veyron's 252, but VW (i.e. Bugatti) won't let anyone else near My VMAX 179mph was on a straight and the car was still accelerating fairly hard. Runway was 2 miles with timing beams at 1.4 miles. 1.4 miles may seem a lot but when travelling at 3 miles/minute it is bugger all! Quote May: DON'T hit it with a hammer! Clarkson: Why? May: Cause it's the tool of a pikey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragingfool35 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Under what conditions is the top speed rated by ferrari? Am i being dumb, but i'd expect them to get that figure in a car with no passenger, no spare wheel, perfect road surface, favourable wind or at least no side wind, and just enough fuel to get the figure etc.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> weight has no effect on top speed. Quote chris90SEjust because I don't CARE doesn't mean I don't UNDERDSTAND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Grey Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 MotorTrend did 179mph in the 98 Esprit V8 (with the big 98 wing) on a test track in Arizona in the US. It was redline limited in 5th... Still had power left they said. Weight does have some effect on top speed, but the forces are dominated by drag. Weight effects friction in the tires and other driveline components. If you want to go fast, put really skinny tires on the car, well and raise the limiter or make the gearing taller. Quote Travis Vulcan Grey 89SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Someone on here done a calculation on the effective drag on an Esprit and how fast it could go. Came out to about 190 if the gears were long enough - funny thing was I did a quick experiment on GT4 (hahah) and came out with the exact same result. Then they calculated you needed about 400 BHP to get to 200mph, done that experiment and again came up with the same figure (who knows might actually be a good simulator). As for weight - at those kinda speeds to increase in a small amount of speed needs a fair bit of power in comparison to accelerating at lower speeds. Eventually the weight of the vehicle will start to cause a negative effect on the top speed (albeit not by massive amounts but then again the customer was only complaining about 1% of his max speed missing). By loading the car up (espeically un-evenly front/back - left/right) you'll affect the car, at those speeds little changes can make noticable differences. I take it thats why you over inflate the tyres as well on a high speed runner, less friction, less heat. Wasn't it Vauxhall that got rapped about this also with the Astra GTE ? Didn't they strip the thing right out and present its 0-60 times (yes I know thats not top speed but it's a manufacturer's claim) well below what the porduction car could do...read something along those lines anways. Quote facebook = jon.himself@hotmail.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_hooper Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Ferrari not fast enough. Buyer wants refund... http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I bet its as simple as Ferrari were lazy or more likely has a marketing department who didn't have the courage to quote a slower top speed than the standard car... or engineers and marketing never actually talked about it - Dilbert cartoons spring into my mind for some reason!. With the extra aero package on the Challenge Stradale it generates a lot more downforce than the slight power difference can overcome at 175+. With wind resistance squaring with speed it bound to make a big difference. Well done to Lotus on this point (Elise/Exige).. they would honestly say the Exige is slower on top speed at a given power output in a back to back comparison with a standard Elise. Forget top speed which is academic anyway, its designed to and it will lap a track significantly faster than the standard car. To be honest give me a car that goes where I point it around corners and does it at silly speeds. I'd happily exchange a second of my 0-100 and better handling for 20MPH of my top speed anyday.. My mate has a Rover V8 engined racing kit car that will do about 130 tops but corners and outsprints my V8 Esprit significantly.. It has a massive advantage on power to weight but is as aerodynamic as a brick. But I know which one I'd pick for a fun quiet road or track day. Anyway for Edited March 22, 2006 by jeff_hooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 weight has no effect on top speed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is that a fact? Is just it takes longer to get there then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAndretti42 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Is that a fact? Is just it takes longer to get there then? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. That's the main effect although, it will increase rolling resistance of tyres slightly. I thought that, if you advertised a given performance of you car nowadays, it had to be able to meet those claims. I know that production engines have to be within so many percent of the claimed figure and a government representative has to witness the dyno test that gives that figure. If the car is 5% down on top speed that's 15% down on power. That's a lot. If I were the owner, I think I would get a rolling road check of the engine performance ot just keep sendig it back to the dealer to have it checked over (under warranty). It should do what they say. Quote S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killboy Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 weight has no effect on top speed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, it does. Perhaps the odd kg here or there will not be noticeable but weight (extra or less) will affect both acceleration & top speed of a vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molemot Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Top speed is reached when (in aircraft terms) thrust = drag. For a vehicle on a level road, thrust equates to the force produced by the engine, through the transmission, to the driving wheels to produce acceleration. Drag becomes a combination of the aerodynamic drag and the rolling resistance of the chassis due to the tyres, brake drag, wheel bearings etc. Once thrust = drag at maximum power, no further acceleration is possible and the top speed has been reached. Weight acts at right angles to the thrust/drag axis and thus has no influence on top speed on a level road. Of course, if you're going downhill, more weight = more speed! Quote Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Weight acts at right angles to the thrust/drag axis and thus has no influence on top speed on a level road. Of course, if you're going downhill, more weight = more speed! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is probably where i thought less weight = more speed... I empty my tools onto site whenever i can so the van goes quicker, But you are quite right, it's on the inclines (quite obviously) that the lack of speed is most obvious, on open flats i suppose it would reach it's top speed, with enough road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Well the 10 tonne Thrust SSC was a bit nippy..... (btw, I've had my old V8 Gt up to an indicated 183 at 6800 rpm in 5th. It was still noticably accelerating) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) The theory being discussed only works if the engine powering the vehicle is capable of developing the torque needed to overcome the weight at higher rpms. My Buick wagon will do 135mph flat out (6500Lbs.) With a car trailer behind it loaded (total weight 10,500Lbs.) It will max out just over 100mph. I know the added friction of the tyres and surface areas will account for some of the speed loss, but the main reason is the engine develops its 300hp/350ft.lbs. at lower rpms , so it cannot deal with the added weight at higher RPM (where it develops less power) Edited March 24, 2006 by WayneB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRTurbo909 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 With a car trailer behind it loaded (total weight 10,500Lbs.) It will max out just over 100mph. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So is this a good tow vehicle wayne? Im looking for something but i hate SUV/Trucks. Been around them too much i guess when i used to like in Riverside... Shah Quote My Beautiful Car http://www.glcforum.com/ukesprit/forums/in...CODE=12&CID=182 ... Proud to be a G-car owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 These things are a great tow vehicles (Caprice and Roadmaster LT-1) And there dirt cheap! And you can sleep in them if your Mrs. chucks you out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Well the 10 tonne Thrust SSC was a bit nippy..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 110,000 horsepower does help shift it though (reminds me I must go and see that car) Quote facebook = jon.himself@hotmail.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Wayne, how odd I have a 1992 Buick Roadmaster... not the LT1 version, but Buick roadmaster non the less... Great long distance driving car as well... Quote Joey Spencer WV Found my Esprit, but due to family issues, money went to other things I guess I just have to wait for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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