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LEAKED : Paris 2010 : Lotus new Esprit, Elan, Elite & Elise - Page 6 - Lotus / Motoring / Cars Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


LEAKED : Paris 2010 : Lotus new Esprit, Elan, Elite & Elise


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No chance.

It was also reported in the Sun today.

Do you really think Lotus could relocate and still carry on? 90%+ staff lost, years of production lost, centuries of experience lost? MJK said the same when the council upped the rates by £200k, it's similar now.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Elan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcnw05biUuE Elite Elise Esprit Eteme New Elan New Elise New Esprit New Elite

These are awesome looking cars !!!!!!! Definitely carrying on the tradition. WOULD LOVE TO DRIVE THEM !

When I was a teenager, back in the seventies, I really aspired to all things Lotus, especially the Esprit of course. I would imagine that most of the current teenagers will now do the same again -

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Hey Bibs, haven't seen to many comments from you yet, someone who was actually there. What was the general reaction to the launch in the hall and what is the consensus amongst you 'hacks' about the state of Lotus and the plans?

I will not be making any comments here, except to say that I have been waiting a very long time for the new Esprit and was prepared to wait even longer. I have resisted all attempts by my dealer to get me into an Evora - until now. I will be heading his way to book an Evora test drive very soon.....

Edited by hedgerley
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the elan has the intakes on the sills beneath the doors and the esprit doesn't?... wtf.

that's been a staple of the esprit since forever, and to put the intakes on a car that was originally a 2 seater roadster and not on the one that they belong on is just stupid....

i really hope that lotus is paying attention to these forums and the numerous other places discussing these new cars... because for ***** sake those cars REALLY need some bigger side mirrors! I really love the overall design execution of the "elansprit", but i'm really hoping they tweak some things to differentiate the cars a little more when they actually do come out....

also, are spoilers a thing of the past now? the arch above the taillights on both would lend itself nicely to a subtle body moulded spoiler.

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I'm just finishing my write up, 30 mins?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Owen that was a good vid thanks

Although I really like the way the company is going I think to build cars else where would detract from the cars. Dany Bahar talks abot heritage and I beleive most of Lotus Herritage is being a British car manufacturer. Could you imagine Ferarri leaving Italy? Porche leaving Germany? I just hope its a ploy to keep the [email protected] from the local council in check who want to do what ever they can to make life more difficult for manufacturing companies!!!

Buddsy

 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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"the elan has the intakes on the sills beneath the doors and the esprit doesnt?... wtf.

thats been a staple of the esprit since forever, and to put the intakes on a car that was originally a 2 seater roadster and not on the one that they belong on is just stupid...."

Jamie, you'd think they'd learn what works and what doesn't. The ears on my S2 Esprit are noisy at speed (the wind being trapped behind your ear). The move down to the sills made sense.

-Bob

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Just thought I'd my twopenearth. Like most of you I think they all look fantastic, although some look better than other's. Can't help wondering though if this forum was around nearly 40 years ago would the conversation have been pretty much the same, when the Elan, Elite and Seven owners saw the Esprit, Eclat and Elite for the first time. It was a bould move by Lotus and Colin Chapman at the time and to be honest if he hadn't can't thinking I might not be such as big as a fan.

I Hope these cars make to production as I think it will put Lotus were it should be, up there with the big boys. Some 30 years ago if you had a Lotus you had one of the fastest and best handling cars on the road with head turning looks to boot.

Anyway I don't want the new Esprit to look like my one, there's only one Esprit whch has urned its place in history as all time classic probably never to be repeated.... :unworthy:

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Let me guess they want to build them in Italy!?

Ok let's imagine some parts are manufactured outside the UK and then brought to the rolling chassis in the UK it is ok, I think! The panels for the current Elise are made by Sora Composites, in France, already! I can conceive that Hethel has become too cramped for this line up production especially if the cars are mostly aluminium and carbon fiber.

Moving to a new facility like Aston did quite recently and Lotus did in the past is not illogical! Now should the cars not be built in Norfolk then they fail! Nobody would buy a Ferrari built away from Modena! Porsche manages to do it with its cars but I don't know if Lotus, Lamborghini and Ferrari could!

From the renderings Lotus will share most of their interior visible components! However their use of carbon fiber is for sure bringing the price up! I do understand the need to be ambitious but like Joe Savard reported on his blog if it is all smoke and mirrors! I hope the cars make it to production and I hope they make it in due time! I'd like to see them with their final packaging.

Should one car fail to make it to production in time and Lotus would become a laughing stock!

Dany Bahar, Proton Berhad and the new management went all in, it better not be a bluff!

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From the Autoexpress article Graham posted:

“So over the next 10 years we will invest £770m."

“We have to adapt Lotus DNA to today’s requirements. I have not seen it written down anywhere at Lotus that the engine has to be in the middle. Or that it cannot be in the front or in the rear. "

“We will continue to follow performance through lightweight, but that doesn’t mean that our cars must weigh less than 1,000kg. It means they are the lightest in their class. That is what performance through lightweight means to us.”

I like that he Dany has convinced Proton to pony up significant cash for this future, and that Lotus will not be bound to a mid-engine format.

I really do not like that "lightness" has gone from being an absolute to being relative. Like everyone else on here, I believe that is totally against Lotus heritage. I find it irritating that an outsider has taken over and used marketing speak to spin what "performance through lightweight means to (Lotus)".

No sir, being the "lightest in their class" is not at all the same as designing simple, elegant, lightweight designs, which is what lightweight used to mean at Hethel, what it used to mean to Lotus.

I guess the "us" at Hethel has changed, and that is the loss, I suppose, I am trying to get over. I understand it has to happen, it is just that I am not really ready to accept it quite yet.

"At home, I have a King Sized bed. Now, I don't know any Kings, but I would imagine if one were to come over, he would be comfortable." -Mitch Hedberg

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Its been interesting reading the posts on here and on Pistonheads today. There is an interesting divergence of opinion. If one assumes Pistonheads carries a very broad audience, across a wide range of cars then there appears to be almost universal acclaim of what Lotus has presented with a huge range of compliments and wishes for the lottery win. Here on TLF, populated mainly with Lotus diehards, the reception has been much more muted, more of a 'nice but....' kind of response, me included. Are we being left behind?

By the way, here's the local news' take on the plans, with a particular emphasis on where the new cars may be built. The interesting bit is at the end, when they confirm Lotus is in discussion with the Government (BIS) about securing loans to expand Hethel. In the current 'age of austerity' that is surely going to be very difficult, if not impossible. We can but hope.

http://www.itv.com/anglia/lotus-ambitious-plans94097/

Edited by hedgerley
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In my opinion these cars are very likely perfect for the future generations of potential sportscar owners because they don't appeal to me at all...

They are obviously not bad looking, by all means, but there isn't a single memorable detail on any of them; I didn't expect a copy of the old Esprit, mind you, but while the old Esprit has (imho) a timeless shape that one can definitely recognize from other cars, these are a collection of design cues taken from other existing cars and put in a blender, not randomly but without a glimpse of uniqueness.

The pictures of the white or silver Esprit just strike me as the exact shape a Nissan sportscar would have if they made one.

I don't think I hate modern designs, in fact while I appreciate the "new retro" cars (Ford GT, etc.) I think the prototype Jaguar is pretty amazing, now that is one stunning car, while I would not use "stunning" to describe the new Lotuses, "aggressive" and "modern" sure, but not stunning; even the wheels couldn't be more anonymous.

Something else that amazes me is also the choice of engines, I mean historically Lotus has used comparatively small-displacement but highly tuned engines, with savvy use of forced induction; now that small displacement and forced induction engines are coming back what do they use? 5.0L V8 plus supercharger, very Lotus.

I most definitely wish Lotus my very best, and I think they will find buyers for these cars if/when they will produce them, but I am just so glad I purchased the Sport 300!

Cheers,

Francesco

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I think the styling is pretty dramatic and it doesn't bother me, as a longtime Lotus fan, that there is no obvious link to the styling of older Lotus. As someone has pointed out, the same charge could have been leveled at the Elite, Eclat and Esprit when they were announced. Don't want any of them, though. Way too over-powered for me. It may be big but it's not clever which was, I believe, Lotus' USP.

I don't understand why they can't have a more regularly-shaped steering wheel. They look most uncomfortable.

I do like the idea of the KERS boost. With that, why do they need so much power? 150 mph is enough for a top speed for nearly 100% of the customers. You would struggle to beat that at most tracks. 300 hp for the Elise? I bet it won't be any more fun to drive than the original 118 hp version.

Interesting that, while Lotus are getting heavier, Lamborghini announced a lightweight concept saying that that was the only way forward for sports car. And this was in response to a Ferrari 1,000 kg concept car.

I suspect they are as much to gauge the market reaction as anything with the intent of putting into production only those which get a really positive response.

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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If nothing else, the unveiling of these new designs has caused quite a commotion in the automotive online world. In my time on this forum I can't recall any other thread going "viral" so rapidly. !0 pages in a little over two days, with no signs of letting up .If our little microcosm is representative of the larger scheme of things, then Lotus has definitely touched a nerve. With the passage of those days, we have had time to partake in further reflection on our initial response to the release of these vehicles. I would be engaging in personal hubris if I said my opinion (on anything) was immune to the thoughts, impressions, and inputs of others regarding the ephemeral subjectivity of "art" in general, and automobiles in particular. Nonetheless, I remain highly pleased with this most recent effort by Lotus to usher in a new era for the company, and wish them well. That said, I am quite content to retain my soon to be "vintage" Esprit. It is now assured of iconic, timeless status for all time. The "break" between it and the "new" Esprit is sufficient to ensure its uniqueness for automotive eternity, and, to my mind, that is a good thing.

Edited by Iconic Ride

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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I totally agree with you John on your last paragraph - if nothing else the last two days have made me more pleased about my own "proper" Lotus cars (for want of a better description) and I think this move will give the older cars a certain something extra, it does seem to a lot of guys on the forum that this is more the end of the era rather than the dawn of a new one.

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If the current line up becomes the future of Lotus, then I am all for it. Its just another chapter in the potfolio of the company. I will always love my Esprit and the future models do not diminish that in any way. Personally, its about time. It would be even better if they could bring the cost of future product to a more attainable position.

I get the light weight position but what are people comparing it too?

Look at where the Elise started with the S1 to the current encumbent in the S3. With more mod cons than before along with more power to compensate, is this folly or are Lotus making a car more appealing to a wider audience, or could it be that the people who actually BUY the cars and where the majority of future sales are expected, have subcsribed to Lotus that these additions in future builds are required because its what the customer wants? Perhaps light weight is not as appealing as in the days of old and that modern technology actually surpasses this in the current day and age?

Lotus Elise S1 731kg

S2 860kg

S3 876kg

Each to their own. Roll on Lotus.

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

Lotus Espirt Turbo S3    

Lotus Esprit S4 

Lotus Elise S2 Sport 130

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You have to hand it to them - they've done a great job of the re-launch as a show, it's been very well received and that you have to applaud them for.

It wasnt the Exos / Evora s and some other clay rubbish.

It's going ahead regardless and you have to wish them every success - a flop would be so hugely damaging to the brand....perhaps they might end up with a cheap light weight sports car again hehe

Whether the cars even get made / built is another matter - mock ups to real cars are often not the same beastie

Elise MK1 was an example of this.

When you look at the evolution of Lotus I guess we shouldn't complain - I just wish they hadn't have gone with that stupid gob on the front of them.

The Esprit (when you see it propperly) does actually ahve SOME deisgn cues.

I'm looking at my white Esprit S300 wannabe and there are a lot more similarities esp on the air intakes and the rear deck, its just spoilt by the silly face and the dumb branding - a lot of the time I listen to Bahar and go "ay, come again....what are you talking about". The New Esprit, faster than sound (oh and chuck a panther in there).........it's dipshit, someone asked if that was the new Jaguar hahahah

Lesson 1 in how to lose your branding...

They should have simply kept the Evora, done a body on that and then taken the New esprit further on, forget the Elan, yep it looks OK but it's a bitesized Esprit and boring for my liking.

The Elise is horrific, no other words, they've taken a true Icon and destroyed it - I think they will suffer with it and I think they will suffer without having an Exige too to gap that midrange between the Elise and the Elan.

It'll also be more likely the cheaper cars will be made elsewhere and that will not necessarily bode well for the brand.

The saloons are great, I hope they do well.

I just wish they'd have hung onto something of the past and perhaps joined the new Lotus with the Old one a bit better, instead of simply taking the herritage they all keep crowing on about and wiping the slate clean (doenst say much for their love or herritage does it)

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I just wish they'd have hung onto something of the past and perhaps joined the new Lotus with the Old one a bit better, instead of simply taking the herritage they all keep crowing on about and wiping the slate clean (doenst say much for their love or herritage does it)

Did you read the news article?

paris_167.jpg

paris_172.jpg

paris_24.jpg

paris_176.jpg

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Wow

what a line up and what great reaction from the forum and also from other areas of the non-lotus world.

I am going to Paris next weekend and cant wait.

The Esprit and Elan are stunning - of course there are styling cues but you can always find similarities if you look hard enough.

Elise - this seems to have had the least positive response form the forum but personally i think it is probably the best design - very individual.

Remeber how unique the orginal Elise was 15 yrs ago.

If they had retained the current design and simply 'refreshed it' they would have been described as lazy/

Life moves on and i think the new Elise is a perfect example of this (design wise - the weight is a different issue of course)

Elite - nice but not my cup of tea.

Eterne - No way for me, but if Aston Martin can get away with the Rapide then who knows.

The weight issue is a big thing but unfortunately life has moved on again.

People now expect a few more creature comforts like good sound systems, a/c, traction control etc etc.

These things inevitably add weight.

If they can keep the class leading handling then i am certainly happy to forgive a bit of extra weight.

So where does this leave the Evora ?

It does seem to be part of the 'previous' lotus family but if lotus go upmarket then hopefully this will help the Evora used values hold up well in the long run.

The lotus fraternity are used to a 'family' atmosphere and that looks certtian to disappear which is a shame.

But if this is the solution to allow the brand to say alive in the long run, then i think it is well worth it.

Overall i like. A lot!

construction and property consultants : My company

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A couple of web sites are saying

2013 Esprit

2014 Elan (my favourite - I can see the old Esprit in this a bit)

2015 Elise

2015 Eterne

With the Elite and City cars as concepts so no dates. Source http://www.automobilemag.com

What I find most odd about this is the Elise - does this mean that the dealers are going to have 5 years of customers saying can I buy and old shape Elise on the cheap? It might also be difficult to shift the Evora with the Elan on the horizon?

Perhaps this explains why there will soon only be 3 Lotus dealers in the UK? They will not be selling enough cars to share around more than 3 dealers until 2015?

Alan

PS - The three dealers quote taken from the BBC news site seems to have been a mistake. See comment from Bibs below.

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What I find most odd about this is the Elise - does this mean that the dealers are going to have 5 years of customers saying can I buy and old shape Elise on the cheap? It might also be difficult to shift the Evora with the Elan on the horizon?

Perhaps this explains why there will soon only be 3 Lotus dealers in the UK? They will not be selling enough cars to share around more than 3 dealers until 2015?

Alan

Only 3 dealers ??? That's insane... is that for real, are there any details on this? thumbdown.gif

I agree on the pricing of the existing range too, I'm in exactly that situation, I've toyed with an Evora but it's going to take a serious hit, I've spotted a few being advertised with quite heavy discounts already, although that could just be coincidence. What I really want is the Elan which I'm guessing is essentially a series 2 Evora but in the meantime what to drive for the next 3-4 years?

On the matter of the change of market place etc, as someone else pointed out, this is no different to the situation in the early/mid 70's when Lotus introduced the new Elite and Esprit. That must have been a similar shock to the system given that the range consisted of the Seven S4, the Elan and Europa.

Edited by Stirling_Villeneuve

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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3 dealers was a mis-quote and the BBC have been asked to correct this. There will be fewer dealers than there are now but it's more likely to be closer to 15-ish.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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WOW! I have been out of internet comms for about 5 or 6 days and then come back into this lot! With the slow connection we have offshore it is taking forever to load and read everything.

I agree with so many parts in so many postings I do not intend to list them or my thoughts on the individual models although I do think all a bit "samey" and if no badge fitted would you ever guess manufacturer? As a relatively new to Lotus customer (altough dreamt Esprit for donkey years) I already feel like I am part of the old client base and family ethos! Didn't expect to be saying that! Don't know what it will do for the Evora sales or residuals. Good arguments presented for good and bad things. Time will tell.......

Somebody mentioned that Lotus will have done their market research before this lot just happened. Well I never posted about it at the time but I was selected for market research some time back and have had two different and long winded types of reseach done on me so I can say for sure they have. Both were independent companies and the first telephone interview took about just over an hour and the second internet based one took about 40 minutes with good connection at home. It was not "you have an Evora and what has fallen off it" type questions but all about perceptions, brand awareness, lifestyle, aspirations and more. There were a few what would you like on, or removed from, the car but not much.

Looking forward to a better read of some posts with more photos as they presently just take too long to down load.

(Hedgerly - go for it. Graeme will look forward to the visit! I assume the S? )

A LEGS man and proud to declare it! Lotus Enthusiasts Group Scotland

Autocar's Best UK Drivers Car 2009. Car's Performance Car of the Year 2009; Evo's Car of the Year 2009. Top Gear Sports Car of the Year 2009

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The reason I bought Lottie in 1990 was because , whilst £40k+ was a bit of a stretch, I was just about able to afford her - whereas the alternatives were considerably more expensive, AND I'd been a Lotus fan since the Jim Clark days.

These news cars all look great, but Lotus are going more upmarket than I'll ever afford again. I guess the enthusiasts will split into a 'Chapman-inspired' and 'Ferrari-clone' camp and we'll each go our separate ways. Sad, but maybe inevitable.

Proud recipient of the LEF 'Car of the Month Award' February 2008

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "Wow, what a ride!!"

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