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LEAKED : Paris 2010 : Lotus new Esprit, Elan, Elite & Elise - Page 7 - Lotus / Motoring / Cars Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


LEAKED : Paris 2010 : Lotus new Esprit, Elan, Elite & Elise


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....we'll each go our separate ways. Sad, but maybe inevitable.

It's not always a bad thing.

:)

The postive side is that Lotus have not made a car that interests me since they launched the S2 Exige. This keeps every Lotus i'd want to own affordable so that can only be good.

:thumbsup:

However i have never felt less interested in the badge, the cars shown here could be anything, the F1 is meaningless. I don't want to only drive Lotus cars forever, i did not sign up for that and TBH that's very limited and very boring. For me anyway there has probably never been a easier time to buy another marque, and if the badge and the company becomes something i'm not bothered about, AND i've had my fill of the great cars they have made already, thats what i'll do.

I am entirely unconcerned with how well these cars sell, if they make them, and who buys them.

:)

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Elan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcnw05biUuE Elite Elise Esprit Eteme New Elan New Elise New Esprit New Elite

These are awesome looking cars !!!!!!! Definitely carrying on the tradition. WOULD LOVE TO DRIVE THEM !

When I was a teenager, back in the seventies, I really aspired to all things Lotus, especially the Esprit of course. I would imagine that most of the current teenagers will now do the same again -

Posted Images

(Hedgerly - go for it. Graeme will look forward to the visit! I assume the S? )

I just did Al - got back an hour ago. I'd called in for a chat with Graeme about the launch and 'new' Lotus. He was in handover mode with a guy about to drive off in a black Evora. I had a natter with him and it seems the Aston Vantage was on his list but after driving the Evora (his eighth Lotus!) it was a no brainer........

So, with a twinkle in his eye Graeme asked if I was interested in taking one out. I finally succumbed. Oh my, everything I've read and heard and then some. It seems almost other worldly how it steers and rides. My Esprit now feels like a tractor! Of course I now feel exactly how I knew I'd feel which is why I've resisted for so long. But you know what finally tipped me over the edge? New Lotus and New Esprit. As I said, no doubt it will be an awesome car, but for me its taking the brand to far.

So now what do I do - pay my Corporation Tax bill at the end of the year or buy an Evora? Tough call.

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I think its great. This has stimulated some great postings and I am all for that. Its refreshing to have a debate around the pros and cons.

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

Lotus Espirt Turbo S3    

Lotus Esprit S4 

Lotus Elise S2 Sport 130

pig_zps6d7342f1.jpg

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Does that mean Bibs has to start 'TheNewLotusForums.com'

Were better off starting the separation sooner rather than later... :stuart:

I have heard rumours that Bibs is planning to announce the start-up of 5 new forums next month covering Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Aston Marting, helicopters and private jets. I think he's going to over-stretch himself and cannot afford it and I will be suprised to see any of them on the web.

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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“We will continue to follow performance through lightweight, but that doesn’t mean that our cars must weigh less than 1,000kg. It means they are the lightest in their class. That is what performance through lightweight means to us.”

But this statement is not really incorrect, is it? The elise was built as a lightweight sportscar. I doubt it would ever convince someone to sell their Ferrari or Aston Martin to buy one simply because it is lighter and performs better. If one of these models convinces someone to leave their current marque and venture into Lotus ownership because the Lotus is lighter than their current car and outperforms it for a 'like' sort of vehicle, isn't that the point? Otherwise, after the elise, why did Lotus build anything else? It was the lightest (except for the Ariel Atom I'd wager).

Showroom conversation:

(Customer rocks up in whatever current sportscar/supercar you care to imagine)

I'd like a nice high performance sportcar thanks.

Sure, here's an elise. Tiny 4 cyl engine and goes like a scalded cat.

Have you got anything a bit more comfortable with a bit more room and somewhere to chuck a bag.

Nope. Just this. What colour would you like?

Not sure yet. What about stereo and climate control options.

Nope. Just this. What colour would you like?

What about a bigger engine?

Nope. Just this. It's the lightest out there. What colour would you like?

Lotus went from the 4 cyl engine to the 8 cyl 'cos a lot of people said it needed an eight to break into the markets that it had not made a lot of inroad into. Didn't matter that we knew it handled better than some far more expensive cars, it didn't have 'that' sound and it was only a 4. 'Real' cars have lots more cylinders that that. The esprit got heavier and is slower in standard form than an S4 0-100mph. I'm not interested in top end speed. Can't use it here in Australia anyway. But lots of esprit v8's are owned on here and no-ones griping.

Personally, I like the new line-up. Will these look like this at production, I highly doubt it. For instance,why would you have those futuristic side mirrors but then leave a normal interior one in the car? Carbon wheels? Doubt it again. The elite fold down roof? Not sure because as I said before, there doesn't look to be enough real estate at the back for the roof to go into. Sill vents in the esprit are still a possibilty. The cars are a long way off yet.

All the best to them. I can't afford one, but Mr. Bahar ain't aiming for my business.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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I have heard rumours that Bibs is planning to announce the start-up of 5 new forums next month covering Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Aston Marting, helicopters and private jets.

Talking of private jets, these are Lotus staff and customers on the way to Paris. Surprised I didn't get an invite!

62400_436148040996_601125996_5692338_8296807_n.jpg

62941_436148130996_601125996_5692339_6009597_n.jpg

62941_436148145996_601125996_5692342_1989331_n.jpg

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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'Real' cars have lots more cylinders that that. The esprit got heavier and is slower in standard form than an S4 0-100mph. I'm not interested in top end speed. Can't use it here in Australia anyway. But lots of esprit v8's are owned on here and no-ones griping.

I'm not disagreeing with your argument, but your maths is somewhat off. S4 gets to 100mph in 11.9 secs, an S4S in 11.4 and a V8GT in 9.5secs. (A V8GT is also over half a second quicker to 60mph than an S4 and S4S)

Sometimes big power is a good thing.

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Are those light weight planes? How many cylindersdo the engines have?

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

Lotus Espirt Turbo S3    

Lotus Esprit S4 

Lotus Elise S2 Sport 130

pig_zps6d7342f1.jpg

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You're correct lord Pilko. I hit the m instead of the k when I typed I'd say. Hmm. I read somewhere that the S4 was 4.6 and the V8 was 4.9s to 100kph. Ah. Newbie...:getmecoat:

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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I am the target market for Lotus. I have had my deposit paid for almost two years so I can have the first Esprit in Australia. After seeing the concept, will I go ahead with the sale? Not unless they do something radical with the styling.

I agree with absolutely everything that Jonathan said earlier.

The Elan - 100% hit the mark. Absolutely perfect to go against the Gallardo and 458.

The Elite and Eterne - again - defintely hit the mark and I'd consider either one of them to replace my ContinentalGT or whatever I'll be using as a daily in 4/5 years time.

The Elise - totally missed the mark. An Elise over a ton???

The Esprit - again, as Jonathan said, it's not outrageous enough to be what an Esprit it's supposed to be. Right now, between the new Esprit and the LP640 it's a no brainer - LP640 all the way. And the Murcie family is rather tame for Lambo, except the Reventon or the new SV. The Esprit from S4s onwards could hold its own against a Diablo looks wise. This new one cannot hold it against the current Murcie family, never mind the new Jota that's coming out in March which is supposed to make the Murcie SV look tame.

The new Esprit should have looked like the earlier mentioned new Jag concept. Add this new Esprit headlights to the Jag and OMG! I'd be beating Lotus' door down to buy one!

As someone else posted earlier - when I saw an Esprit for the first time, an electric jolt went through my body. Only the Esprit and the Diablo have done that for me. Even now, even though I have them in the garage, if I see others on the street I lose my mind like a little kid. Does this new Esprit create that emotion? Nope.

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You're correct lord Pilko. I hit the m instead of the k when I typed I'd say. Hmm. I read somewhere that the S4 was 4.6 and the V8 was 4.9s to 100kph. Ah. Newbie...:getmecoat:

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it, Michael. The figures I have been able to locate for the V8's 0 to 60mph (essentially the same as 0 to100kph [62mph to be precise]) performance are all over the map, though all sub 5 seconds. One of the most extensive reports on the car (when it first came out) even issued a disclaimer that the acceleration tests were done "in the wet" (but were still quite impressive nonetheless). I've come across at least three figures for 0 to 60 mph, the lowest (IIRC) being 4.4, and the highest 4.9. In any case the number will vary for any given day (temp, elevation, wind direction and speed, even humidity to a small extent) and, of course, driver technique (and weight!), i.e., shift selection points (redline or otherwise/torque vs hp), throttle left wide open or let up on during shifts,etc.)---most car mag tests try to standardize their methodology (know I'm preaching to the choir on this), i.e., RPM set to 3000 before launch, half filled tanks, etc., but even that can vary from mag to mag.

Bottom line: the car is very very quick, in either 4 pot or V8 models.:)

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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So most criticism is that the Esprit is too Lambo but for you its not Lambo enough? LOL I do like the look of the LP640 but I guess you need to see the Esprit in the flesh. I dont think any of the previous Esprits have been as radical as the Lambos?

Is the price of the LP640 £190,000? If the Esprit is available for £110,000 thats quite a big difference.

Buddsy

 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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“We will continue to follow performance through lightweight, but that doesn’t mean that our cars must weigh less than 1,000kg. It means they are the lightest in their class. That is what performance through lightweight means to us.”

"When we first got together, Colin said, 'Mario, I always want to make a car as light as possible.' I said, 'Well, Colin, I want to live as long as possible. I guess we need to talk.' "

Mario Andretti

(from the new book by Karl Ludvigsen, Colin Chapman--Inside the Innovator)

Ludvigsen-275x350.jpg

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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If they ever make them, they will sell a lot of them, look how many Audi and BMWs are sold each year. Lotus was never about quantity of sales so much as quality of design and engineering.

I just don't see myself wanting one, just like I don't want any of the German cars. I guess I am not the target market.

On the bright side, by the time the Esprit comes out I'll have finished saving up for a Sport 350! :guitar: (and my track car might be finished)

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A few comments in this thread speak to these new Lotus models as not "proper" Lotus cars, dont you think that all those people at Hethel who will have put many hours work in these designs will find it pretty insulting to hear that their current work is not consdered proper Lotus. Quite a few read what goes on in here and must be pretty disappointed with reading those words. Its that kind of sentiment that could lead them to think sod all those owners of previous models, why give them any support inthe future?! Its fair to have negative opinions about the new designs if the look or specs of them are not to your taste but to insult their new efforts as somehow not being real Lotus is really chirlish at best.

On the specifics of being lightweight, if you get better handling, more comfort and equal or quicker times by increased power why is that not considered good evolution. I dislike the noisy basic or sparse nature of the elise and that fact it is awkard to get into. If they can improve on that with new design and materials etc why not make a car like that?I think it would probably appeal to more poeple than the existing models do and thus have more people into Lotus.

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So most criticism is that the Esprit is too Lambo but for you its not Lambo enough? LOL I do like the look of the LP640 but I guess you need to see the Esprit in the flesh. I dont think any of the previous Esprits have been as radical as the Lambos?

Is the price of the LP640 £190,000? If the Esprit is available for £110,000 thats quite a big difference.

Buddsy

It's too much entry level Lambo than top end Lambo. That's the problem. That's what the Elan is for.

Price is irrelevant to me as I only like to purchase what I perceive it's the best (that includes a combination of things).

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Very interesting thread and some good discussion points raised by many contributors.

I was always a Guigiaro/Stevens Esprit styling purist and even loved the Stevens Elan, but I had reservations after Thompson's revisions to the Esprit shape in 1993 (however his Elise was lovely). Upon seeing the Evora I pretty much lost interest in Lotus for the future and envisaged myself driving a Lamborghini or Ferrari if I were to aquire any other supercars someday. Some of the artists impressions of the future Esprit over the last few years convinced me even more that the marque didn't agree with me anymore.

Then I was informed about the Paris unveiling the other day. This is the first time in years that Lotus has done something that has brought me back towards the brand, and renewed my hopes for their future as a contemporary manufacturer.

Having had a chance to look over the designs again a few times since the other day, I still feel positive about them all as I did upon first glimpse. There is a very high Penguin Approval Rating of these concepts (if you don't know, don't ask...)

Many of the styling inspirations apparent in the new look of these concepts are among my favourites of the current era: I like the front end based on Ferrari and reminiscent of the last Honda NSX revision. I like the short nose balance across the wheel base of Lamborghini's, emphasising the larger engine area at the rear. I like the return to sharper lines, as well as retaining some flowing curves. I like the effort shown in the charactered rear-ends which so often get overlooked and end up an afterthought.

I could nit-pick and say I'd like to have seen a bit more character in the front lights (since pop-ups are unfortunately illegal now), but I can live with what is there happily enough. I'd like the Esprit to have sill or side air intake strakes (which I noticed the Elan has, but are missing on the Esprit!), I think a slightly longer nose would have differentiated the designs a bit more from the rivals and linked better to the balance of the original Esprit shape... but again, I can live with what they have done. (Perhaps the stubbier front is due to crash test regulations?) I don't know if any of the designs have gull-wing or butterfly doors, but if not, that might have been cool (scissors would be too Lambo so a no-go area).

I must be one of the few that feels that the Elan front end is too similar to the Esprit, with a poorer back end design; and that the aggressive variation of the front end on the Elise is quite cool.... However, for me all this is nit-icking. Nothing is perfect for everyone's eye and the good news is that they have proposed an entire range of vehicles to appeal to a subtley variable set of tastes. All the cars will likely have outstanding performance and the driving experience will ultimately win the buyers, since the looks and styling are not polarising.

They could have gone one of two ways:

The first way would have been to create something that no-one else has done yet and create a controversial storm. A massive risk, get it wrong and you have pretty much ended your mass market appeal winning only niche buyers that have a fetish for the unusual. That's financial suicide which will lead them back to the good old days of limping from crisis to crisis, with only enough money to bring one or two models to the road, with likely cheaper parts and reliability, as well as cheaper prices and reputation. Get it right and the company has just made history and won the equivalent of the corporate lottery. To do that, you need the kind of luck and timing that appeared when the Guigiaro's wedge design captured the imagination in '76. At that time, there were many wedge concepts floating around, some even more flamboyant with gull-wing doors or Space1999 style details. But conceptually, Guigiaro and many other designers were experimenting with that 'wedge trend'. It was not that 'new', but since only few made it into real driveable cars it was revolutionary and distinct on the road. To my recollection, only the Esprit and the Countach are remembered on the road, with the Esprit being the subtle alternative. Today, Lotus is too late to the party, Lamborghini beat them to the new wedge 10 years ago with the Murci and later the Gallardo. Ferrari competed with the successful 360 and onwards utilising flowing curves and sharp lines, culminating in the stunning Enzo.

The second way would be to create a blend of classic and successful features that are current and have been popular in this era. That may not create waves of hysteria and mass adoration for the revolution in design talent, but it puts food on the table by guaranteeing accessibility to the tastes of a larger customer base, which is currently the sole preserve of their rivals. Plus it has the advantage of having been tested by the others and proven to sell. This in turn means that they can use better quality components and offer more current technological standards in the cockpit, while at the same time leaving behind the image of 'Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious'. No matter how sexy and individual your car looks on the road, if you can't drive it more than ten miles without something falling off, then it will not sell to anyone who isn't handy at getting his toolkit out and enjoying a good tinker, which are the minority of the customer base. I think many people that may be disappointed by this latest effort are people that also may admit to enjoying the exclusivity of their Lotus for the very fact that it does not sell to the masses, and therefore is a rare sight on the roads. Correspondingly, they also have a dislike of the popular brands because they are so common and stereotyped. Are we really saying that we don't want the yuppies and execs to become Lotus custiomers because it cramps our style? Possubly, but then you can't have both, a successful affluent cutting edge company rivalling Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini, but that only sells a handfull of cars to 'those who know the difference'.

If Lotus is to do more than just survive, and actually grow to offer door handles that don't fall off and engines that don't leak (exaggeration!), than it has to sell a lot of cars at a high margin of profit for re-investment. It's my opinion here that the designers of this new range chose not to try anything that would risk alienation, but instead chose to combine modern classic elements into a widely appealing look. The ground breaking shapes may come in the future after they can pay the mortgage.

I can live with that. Of course, this is all just my take on it and everyone elses opinion is just as valid. So would I put my money where my mouth is? Yes, if that kinda cash was no object, put me down for the new Esprit yesterday! Unfortunately, it's more likely I'll be buying an older secondhand Lambo if prices fall far enough someday.

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some pictures from our trip to Paris last weekend:

33911_1622357286872_1474656160_1608994_3094903_n.jpg

http://www.facebook....60&l=2b46561147

2. part:

http://www.facebook....60&l=770d2e5785

Ciao,

JB

'88 Excel SE - monaco white

'99 Elise 111 - azure blue �

'87 TurboEsprit - calypso red

'02 BMW 325ci convertible - diamond black

wwwlotusexceldebannernew300eu5.jpg

http://excelregister.lotusexcel.de

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When were these new cars designed ? was it under MJK? if not then they did a hell of a job to get them turned round so quick.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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