free hit
counters
1990 NA problem with flooding after long drives out - Engine/Ancilliaries - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Knorbert

1990 NA problem with flooding after long drives out

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

I'm relatively new to Esprits, and I seem to have an issue with flooding after the car has been out for a long run, stood for say 1 hour (whilst one munches a bit of pub-grub), and then has trouble starting. The problem is obviously flooding, but it takes literally hours to clear the cylinders unless I take the plugs out. I'm pretty OK with mechanics having owned many classic cars and built a few kits, but I'm relatively stumped about the immediate solution to the flooding issue on the Esprit - the carb mix and balance looks fine.

Can someone please point me in the right direction - I haven't yet got the workshop manual, so need a bit of guidance at this point.

Many thanks and All the Best

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Hi Andy,

When cold - try starting and it normally fires and runs. If conks, then a judicious use of choke.

When hot - try starting, let it turn over twice and if not starting blip throttle.

Nothing different really to other twin carb set-ups I've had in the recent past. Anything, I should particularly be aware of with the twin 45s on the 2.2 engine?

Cheers

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andy,

Yes, that was a thought I had. I had tweeked the carbs to run 'just' on the rich side of the nominal at tick-over to avoid lean burning at high acceleration, which is not good for ally engines. I don't think they're running rich enough to flood the engine from startup as it stands - I still have to use choke on a cold day, and in fact a little for most times I've started the car from cold since I've had it.

What I haven't yet worked out with Dellortos (I've previously used Webbers) is if there is a hot start mechanism that may need adjustment or replacement.

Of course, the numpty factor of just not yet being in tune with the car's character may be the ultimate cause of the problem rolleyes.gif

Cheers

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the later Excels (SE onwards IIRC) there is a hot-start mechanism which is vacuum controlled, it's in addition to the choke, so it may also be present on the X180 NA. Have a look at the inlet manifold, the water pipe that is part of the manifold would have a temperature controlled valve visible between the to carbs. If the car has that then it could be many different things, vacuum issue, valve failure etc, but that would give you more to go at.

As you're using choke I'd agree you can rule out it being that rich, it just struck me as being very rich if the car would start with no choke and no accelerator pump depressions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All carb'd Esprits have problems with warm starting and Lotus even fitted purge pumps to the later carb'd Esprits in order to help warm starting, but it didn't. :thumbdown: If you search the forum you'll find many threads on the problem & many suggested solutions :gathering:

Basically, make sure your battery & ignition system is in perfect working order & to warm start her slowly press the pedal while spinning her on the starter motor & of course, don't pump the pedal.

Your comment on setting the idle mixture rich "to avoid lean burning at high acceleration" is pointless as the idle circuit is only used at idle, as soon as you open the throttle more than a couple of mm you're using the main jet circuit & the idle circuit is redundant.

I would highly recommend you get or download off the forum the workshop manuals as you'll find them invaluable :thumbsup:


Cheers,

John W

http://jonwatkins.co.uk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andy, John,

Many thanks both, for the suggestions. Having a look at the carbs in detail yesterday it may also be worth checking float height and weight, since I don't know in truth how the carbs have previously been set-up.

Have ordered the workshop manual, and will be playing as soon as it arrives!

Must admit I hadn't expected the Dellortos to be so sensitive to pedal on warm start - complete opposite of my Webber'd cars - if I didn't give them some serious pedal not a lot happens. My previous comment about learning the character of the car may actually be the best solution to my problem :horse:

All the best

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an aside, welcome Mark. Where in Bromley are you, I lived in Beckenham for 8 years!

Check out the 'Kent' section of the forums here.


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Bibs,

I'm in Southborough Lane' just down from Petts Wood village. I've already tagged Kent Forums for any new messages, so hope to meet up with the Kentish owners at some point.

All the best

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was in Bromley Common for a year too, just up the road! I spotted an Esprit parked up in a drive opposite The Chequers on S'Boro Lane years ago, never saw it again though so I guess it was a visitor.

Look forward to meeting you at some point :)


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mark

I have owned a carb turbo for 19 months now and whilst it will often fire up first time from cold - usually when the car hasn't been used for a while its a pig to start when hot. I have replaced just about everything from plugs to plug leads, distributor cap, rotor arm, checked timing, balanced carbs, made sure battery is fully charged etc etc. The best I can get is start within two or three turns.

I did recently replace all the vacuum lines and replaced the non return valve which wasn't operating properly. I did notice that the main vacuum pipe from the pump was fractured and repaired this which has made a bit of difference - starting usually after second turn. As I understand it its a feature of these carb engines and you just have to get used to it. Evaporation of the petrol in the chamber seems to be the cause and until the pump fills this up you aren't going anywhere..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for the feedback from your experiences. I have checked the vaccuum pipes on mine, and they seem OK. You're quite fortunate in the 2 or 3 turns to start from hot. I spent an extra 1.5hrs in a pub car park last Saturday (well.... and the bar :rolleyes:), whilst I waited for the plugs to dry out on mine.

I do wait a few secs on mine for the petrol pump to fill the float chambers of the carbs, but what I realise I may be doing wrong is then applying a couple of foot pumps whilst cranking the engine. I guess that the flood of petrol into the cylinders is wetting the plugs too much. I will confess that since I've taken heed of the advice on this topic and not pumped the peddle, the starting is a little better, though I still feel there is too much initial charge of petrol, so I will investigate the floats in the carbs this weekend.

I'm also going to investigate the Bosch 4-electrode plugs, which have a casing contact arm at 0°, 90°, 180° and 270°. This may be a good way of ensuring (if the wetting is from one direction) that I have a good chance of finding a sparkable gap to start the engine. I don't know if anyone's tried these, but they're not too much dosh to try out:

http://www.boschautoparts.com/sparkplugs/Pages/Platinum4.aspx

Anyone already using these?

Cheers

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm also going to investigate the Bosch 4-electrode plugs, which have a casing contact arm at 0°, 90°, 180° and 270°. This may be a good way of ensuring (if the wetting is from one direction) that I have a good chance of finding a sparkable gap to start the engine.

I've not heard any reports of these plugs but if one of the electrodes is wet then I'd have thought that's the route the power will take, not the high resistance, dry route. :wallbash:


Cheers,

John W

http://jonwatkins.co.uk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jonwat,

Petrol is an overtly non-polar molecule that does not conduct electricity at all, so any 'wetting' kills the spark completely. You need a dry anode and cathode to make the plug spark....

Cheers

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark

Not tried the Bosch 4 plugs but seen them advertised on ebay. As you say they are fairly cheap so worth a try . Please let me know how you get on as I may swap from the standard plugs.

Normally I don't pump the accelarator when turning the engine over but I do sometimes pull the choke out a small amount, but only when cold. I do depress the clutch pedal when starting the engine as I read somewhere that this makes starting easier through disconnecting the clutch. It means less load on the starter motor and it does seem to have more life when turning over.

The vacuum pipe on mine which was perished and fractured was the one under the wheel arch where there is a join to the main pipe from the pump and the t piece going to the heater. It was the last one I replaced and the fact that it was perished meant that there was no vacuum at all, so replacing all the visible ones would not have made any difference. Sine replacing this I have noticed a difference in boost and braking efficiency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike,

I'll re-check the vacuum pipes - always worth a double measure on something like this.

I've started to read differing opinions on the Bosch plugs, with some people experiencing worsening fuel consumption, which tends to imply that maybe they require a very decent ignition system.

I'll let you know what I find if I get a set.

All the best

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike,

Thought you'd be interested to know, I removed and tested the vacuum pipe from the air temp switch, and despite all 'looking' well, one pipe was split and did not hold a vacuum. Very revealing...

Have decided to replace all pipes with silicone hose, so let's see if this works.

Many thanks for making me check the pipes again - just goes to show that the best eye-balling still doesn't beat close inspection and test.

Cheers

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark

Glad to be of assistance. If the vacuum is not holding I understand that the car runs weak which is very bad for the valves etc. It can make a significant difference to starting and I also replaced all my vacuum hoses with silicon ones - looks nice in red. Whilst it helps starting I don't think it will be a panacea - they are just difficult cars to start.

Whilst checking make sure you check the non return valve on the vacuum line to the carbs, assuming the NA has one of these. It might not as it has something to do with holding boost pressure.

By the way are you coming to the Xmas meal down in Kent. A good way to meet a lot of fellow enthusiasts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update on the Flooding issue to date - - - - - - -

After checking all vacuum piping, and replacing the pipes to the ATC control valve (fits in the air filter box on the underside on Carb engines), the starting performance has dramatically improved. It starts from hot on the first turn of the key, which is quite remarkable compared to previously.

I can only assume that the loss of vacuum affected the carbs more than a little - the 'T' piece that the ATC short pipe connects too does run directly to the carbs, and this is obviously not a good state of affairs if the pipe does not contain the vacuum.

I would advocate detailed checks of the vacuum pipes certainly for all carb engines, turbo and NA - I'm relatively good on engine mechanics and I certainly missed a splitting pipe simply by virtue of feeling the pipe and not actually formally checking its integrity.

Replacement pipes used were silicone piping available from Ebay by the metre - a cheap, simple and very effective bit of maintenance.

Thanks once again to Mike for suggesting checks on the vacuum pipes.

All the best

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...