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Since when does Lotus needs input from Genii portfolio of high tech gizmos?! :blink:

Genii is an investment firm they have partners in the automotive industry yes and so what !?

Lotus Engineering is leading the pack and has been leading the pack for years in high tech and lightweight materials!

Whether it's engine tech, Kers, shocks and braking systems, composites... you name it! They don't lack the tech they lack the money!

Lotus engineering portfolio of OEM clients is only matched by Porsche and probably Magna Group!

The tie in with Renault tech may be bringing engine and tranny, don't they already have that with Toyota!? :wacko:

Access to Russian market hum I'll believe it when I see it! Mangrove Capital has been active other there it's true but wasn't really able to generate much money so far!

Since the partners for the Renault F1 team have been coming and going awfully quickly...! True they probably need more time

Lotus wants to sell in Russia not manufacture (or do they?) in Russia for that they don't really need help from Genii do they?!

Don't they have a new chief of sales who spent the last 3 years building a network for a certain italian company!

Speaking about Ruthless: a CEO spends a reported 100M dollars over a 5 year sponsorship+equity deal, then the same CEO threatens a bunch of people to take manufacturing elsewhere if he's not granted a 40M pounds credit line so he can build a new factory!?

My gosh there are ruthless people everywhere these days, business is not what it used to be!

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Why does everything here must benefit only Lotus? Remember people, they are now a subsidiary of Proton, which is trying to do a lot more than just supercars. With all the supposed tech and knowhow, and clients, oem and customers, we've always wondered why the tech coming back for proton are tuned suspensions, GTi upgrades and a c*** engine in the form of CamPro. Heck, those tech should be in Proton cars by now, but it seems like Lotus was this gaping black hole swallowing money without ever seeing something back. Proton has kept Group Lotus alive, but we are now seriously questioning things. Why do you think Dany Bahar was brought in? Old management had 10 years to do something, but the only thing coming was elise, a variant of elise, another elise, whoops, exige (altered elise).

To us, it seemed that before Dany Bahar, nobody at Lotus had any vision or idea what they wanted to do going forward.

And don't tell that under Proton's management, nothing benefitted the Brits. The outfit is still in Britain, when the sensible thing to do was just close shop and ship every piece of bolt back to Malaysia, if we wanted just the tech. No, Proton went on sponsoring a football club, and successions of Lotus Management managed to really make taxpayers here question what exactly is the benefit for holding such a company. So after we are about to pour close to a billion (ringgit? pound? euro?), don't tell us the Brits can't pony up 40 million pounds.

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Why does everything here must benefit only Lotus? Remember people, they are now a subsidiary of Proton, which is trying to do a lot more than just supercars. With all the supposed tech and knowhow, and clients, oem and customers, we've always wondered why the tech coming back for proton are tuned suspensions, GTi upgrades and a c*** engine in the form of CamPro. Heck, those tech should be in Proton cars by now, but it seems like Lotus was this gaping black hole swallowing money without ever seeing something back. Proton has kept Group Lotus alive, but we are now seriously questioning things. Why do you think Dany Bahar was brought in? Old management had 10 years to do something, but the only thing coming was elise, a variant of elise, another elise, whoops, exige (altered elise).

What about the Evora? What about the money to do anything more? It maybe that Mr. Bahar's great legacy will be to have gained the promise of half a billion pounds' investment in the company but it's a high-risk gamble. It will be fantastic if it works. It will be a disaster if it only half works.

To us, it seemed that before Dany Bahar, nobody at Lotus had any vision or idea what they wanted to do going forward.

And don't tell that under Proton's management, nothing benefitted the Brits. The outfit is still in Britain, when the sensible thing to do was just close shop and ship every piece of bolt back to Malaysia, if we wanted just the tech.

That would not have been the sensible thing at all. The "tech" lies in the staff. They are the major resource. Most would have stayed in Britain had the company moved to Malaysia. It wasn't possible for Proton to move the "tech" to their home country.

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What about the Evora? What about the money to do anything more? It maybe that Mr. Bahar's great legacy will be to have gained the promise of half a billion pounds' investment in the company but it's a high-risk gamble. It will be fantastic if it works. It will be a disaster if it only half works.

That would not have been the sensible thing at all. The "tech" lies in the staff. They are the major resource. Most would have stayed in Britain had the company moved to Malaysia. It wasn't possible for Proton to move the "tech" to their home country.

The Evora? Hot selling? More Money? Folks, as many here liked to point out, many times over is that Lotus has the engineering capabilities bla.. bla.. bla.. Why do you think Proton bought the company? Precisely because of the engineering capabilities. However, engineering capabilities means nothing when you see red ink all over the place. What was the previous management doing if Lotus couldn't turn a small profit, or even a nice breakeven even with Lotus providing all the engineering capabilities to everyone else? Were they getting paid or not? Is the company bloated or something? What did the previous management tell Proton? When it seemed like the company was standing still.

There are many other ways though. Proton could just set an R&D for them to design, but move the production somewhere else cheaper. Bet that's cheaper than fully supporting an assembly line in England. Again, it has to be said that this option wasn't explored by Proton, leading to questions now about Proton being shortchanged in a sense regarding what they get from Lotus.

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"So after we are about to pour close to a billion (ringgit? pound? euro?), don't tell us the Brits can't pony up 40 million pounds."

First off who are "we" ? (do you speak for Group Lotus, Proton, the Malaysian Gov, or as a Malaysian citizen when you reference your money?)

Secondly, there once was this car idea by an ambitious American built in Northern Ireland that failed miserably (Delorean) It sure was supposed to create jobs in N. Ireland, but somehow it went bust and the UK Gov funding money and jobs disappeared with it. (Puerto Rico should breathe a sigh of relief the UK deal was more attractive than theirs) In these times I believe there needs to be more money from the business via its own private backers as governments and taxpayers are broke. If it's a good business case then there should be private backers that did their homework and believe that too.

Mr. Bahar seems to have an overly ambitious plan IMHO. He can be the hero in the end, but if not there is far more money riding on his gamble than ever before. If I were the UK gov I would be studying the Bahar plans VERY carefully before contributing anything on his gamble.

Edited by comem47
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I get the impression that a Government / EEDA (or Go Norfolk or whatever the agency is called now) contribution of less than 5% total project is par for the course. As has been alluded to several times previously, Lotus must have a black mark against their name with Government money spent at Dunmurry, and a proportion syphoned to Hethel.

That said, Proton are not the sama management, and a five year deal to the value of forty million IS cheap if there are 1000 extra jobs sustained over that timeframe

Group Lotus are planning to make Lotus Renault GP a fully owned team of Group Lotus in the future, when this is the case they will create a new history for the Lotus brand in F1. The first win under the new Lotus team will count as number 1, not a extension of Team Lotus wins.

Group Lotus have a right to be proud of the history of Team Lotus as many innovations from the F1 team made it into the road cars creating a link between the two. This is the reason they use the motorsport history when promoting the new cars, showing how what was learnt in Motorsport also made its way into the cars helping make Lotus a leader in the automotive engineering industry.

You seem to speak with some insight; so tell me, if the Lotus sponsored Renault F1 team evolve into a fully owned team of Group Lotus, will it race under the French, Malaysian or British flag? It is all a bit of a Charade either way, whether you look at Toleman / Benneton / Renault or Team Lotus / Pacific / Lotus Racing. At the end of the day everyone on here is a fan of a British sportscar manufacturer with heritage, whichever F1 team is followed is a bit of fun, would be nice to also follow a British F1 team

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£40m is the Houses of Commons meal subsidy allowance, it's peanuts in the big scheme of things. I am under the impression that Lotus are struggling to build to expand at Hethel, hence why aftersales have moved (again) to free up factory 4 for production. If Lotus were to go to Norfolk Council who are permanently turning down their planning applications with £40m of the govt's money in the bank and a requirement to create 1,000 jobs with it, the bureaucrats in Norwich would struggle to stop them due to pressures from above. Why they turn them down is beyond me, it's an old airfield in the middle of nowhere, it's hardly prime land but they have done, time and time again!

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Locally, theres 2 schools of thought on that Bibs.

One is that theres a Norfolk County Councillor who lives just round the corner with alot of clout in the council......I know this to be true as it was him that stopped Lotus being able to open up the other entrance on that open day. Also The local residents are especially resillient to any change and, infact, push for tightening Lotus restrictions constantly (Saturday track use is limited now, Sunday is not allowed etc etc).

Two...

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Your name initials are DB. Wouldn't be Dany Bahar would it? devil.gif

It maybe! wink.gif

Mind you my English is a little too good don't you think? lol

Lotus are a automotive engineering leader, that is true. One thing they can't do is manufacture components, so by partnering with Genii they have access to specialists who can produce the components for them. They can also access technology they don't currently have at Hethel.

This forum seems to be quite anti Bahar, before they guy even gets a chance to prove himself. Let's give the guy a chance!

He is taking one hell of a risk which could backfire, making it the biggest mistake in automotive history. On the other hand if the team at Lotus pull this off they would be written in history as achieving what looks like the impossible.Some of us will not like what he is trying to do, nothing wrong with that.

The thing is us British need to start supporting our automotive industry, it's starting to become very fragile. We have lost way to many marques, which are starting to be built away from these shores. Proton have kept Lotus in Britain even when it's been bleeding them money, we should be grateful they never moved it abroad. They are taking a huge risk trying to make Lotus something us Brits can be proud of, something I'm very grateful for.

The Malaysians are pumping up to £800 million into Lotus to keep it a British icon, what do we do moan about loaning them £40 million. Sure shows you how much we care about our automotive industry doesn't it when a foreign country does all the work for us. It will be them who take all the glory, saying us Brits never helped if it all goes to plan. Maybe one day in the future our children will see a Britain that is proud again of what it has, wishful thinking that isn't it?

Britain sure needs to wake up, it was once was the envy of the world. These days we are the laughing stock!

The French are up in arms because Lotus have purchased what was the Renault F1 team, it's a nice change to see a Britsh name starting to take over a foreign name for a change. Enstone has always been a British based team with several French owners, so what's wrong with it having a British based owner instead?

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"So after we are about to pour close to a billion (ringgit? pound? euro?), don't tell us the Brits can't pony up 40 million pounds."

First off who are "we" ? (do you speak for Group Lotus, Proton, the Malaysian Gov, or as a Malaysian citizen when you reference your money?)

Secondly, there once was this car idea by an ambitious American built in Northern Ireland that failed miserably (Delorean) It sure was supposed to create jobs in N. Ireland, but somehow it went bust and the UK Gov funding money and jobs disappeared with it. (Puerto Rico should breathe a sigh of relief the UK deal was more attractive than theirs) In these times I believe there needs to be more money from the business via its own private backers as governments and taxpayers are broke. If it's a good business case then there should be private backers that did their homework and believe that too.

Mr. Bahar seems to have an overly ambitious plan IMHO. He can be the hero in the end, but if not there is far more money riding on his gamble than ever before. If I were the UK gov I would be studying the Bahar plans VERY carefully before contributing anything on his gamble.

Take your pick. If you are talking about Proton, you talk about the Malaysian government and naturally the Malaysian citizens footing the bills through taxes and all.

In Malaysia, the feeling is that Proton needs to stop taking money from the government for projects like this, and began funding everything on its own. The more pragmatic approach now, such as platform swaps with mitsubishi, allowing rebranding of Proton cars by partners in other markets and going into brand new territories such as electric and hybrids. And there are some successes by the new management (although they do sometimes make boneheaded decisions, like disposing off MV Augusta).

But the most important thing of all is what to do with Lotus? The call to move it somewhere cheaper has been going on for ages here, among other things because Proton has capacity for car production, and definately would be cheaper than doing it in England. Racing track aplenty, good roads for transport, nice port etc etc, all here in Malaysia, so much that a few names are assembling their cars here now (partly because the tendency of Thailand to blow themselves up now and then). If you can't test your car properly in England, then maybe Lotus should look at places where they could? If what Dany Bahar is doing is not the best for Lotus, then what is? Ten new variants of Evora? Any suggestion?

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My impressions are that TF got above his station. It all started well, everyone united. But the purchase of Team Lotus episode no doubt pushed Group over the edge?

Only Group can manage how the Lotus name and brand is projected.

In my eyes what TF is now up to is disgusting - he's only in it for the money, if it wasn't for the money he would of renamed hes team Air Asia or whatever. He talks a good game - not wanting to damage the brand and such like, but in fact I believe hes actually doing the opposite.

Sorry. Went a bit [OT] there. Group and the Enstone team tie-in is genius. The way Enstone turned that team around following the Singapore scandal has been rarely acknowledged this year. If Group and Enstone can remain united this could prove to an outstanding partnership.

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The French are up in arms because Lotus have purchased what was the Renault F1 team, it's a nice change to see a Britsh name starting to take over a foreign name for a change. Enstone has always been a British based team with several French owners, so what's wrong with it having a British based owner instead?

bftd! Where did you read that!? I live in France and believe me, nobody other than - some specialized media people - is screaming about it! Remember France doesn't have a GP, doesn't have a driver, so not having a team is not that important, actually next year France will not even have a broadcaster if Canal+ doesn't pick up the tab!

Sorry this is OT but reading comment about Lotus production being moved from Norfolk just beats me!

Ok up to an extent any car can be made anywhere! It's true for cheap cars and the most exclusive ones! Porsche Boxters are made in Finland, Aston Rapides is made in Austria, Even Ferrari has its Scaglietti made outside 'Modena'! However Nobody would be ok to see these three companies relocated elsewhere. At best they can move to new factories not too far from their previous site! Now moving the entire production out of a country is just equivalent to brand murder! Not just company murder! Lotus stands for excellence in engineering which means the company and brand number one asset is its staff! You move production outside the UK you lose everything! Yes I know some will say keep R&D, engineering and design in the UK and move the rest elsewhere! For some reason I don't think that method will ever work in the automotive industry! If it was to work why would start ups like Fisker and Tesla invest massive amount of money in buying and refurbishing their own factories!

Now to all the ones saying that Lotus did not offer much back to Proton for all the money Proton invested! What were you thinking!? Lotus can develop the most potent. most fuel efficient engine and chassis! They will only engineer it provided the client can pay and manufacture it! Remember that the old Ecotec engine used by GM was designed by Lotus! Now Lotus had no problem designing that engine cause GM could pour the equivalent of what Proton poured in Lotus - in the last 14 years - in one big lump and was able to develop the engine platform afterwards! Seriously Lotus can only do so much it is down to their client to manufacture what they can! Proton production is estimated to 160,000 cars a year, GM sells about 4M cars a year their respective budget for R&D are not the same! The tooling in the factory is not the same either! Therefore the product you get is not the same! Why is the 'campro' such a bad engine cause between the R&D engine and the production engine, a more elaborated camshaft design was dropped! Why was it dropped? I don't know but complexity and cost may have been the reasons!

By the way Proton new hybrid city car propulsion tech has been developed by Lotus and you'll find the same engine in Jaguars! How is that for payback! The most modern tech packaged in an Ital Design skin! This is what everybody wants!Right?! However up to now Proton has been more famous for rebadging Mitsubishis and not much else! I'm not putting the blame on them! They are a young company and they are developing at their own pace and it's a slow pace! They have started to roll their own design with Savvy and Gen 2! They look ok on the outside! You sit inside and you realize that they have a long way to go to reach the levels reached by Hyundai/Kia! I wish them the best in their development even if I think that turning down VW offer was a mistake! Now the deal with Genii and Renault maybe a godsend for them!

Now to go back to Lotus Renault GP!

Will the deal profit to Group Lotus? If they can win races or score podiums and rebrand the cars by 2013 if the other F1 teams allow rebranding! Dany Bahar not being popular with some team owners I wish them luck!

Will the deal profit to Lotus Cars in terms of engineering? Maybe but I don't really know what they have to learn, Exos was the demonstrator that they have the capacity to develop a F1 car in house! Kers they already have that! Carbon & Composites ok now that would be a joke! Now in terms of exposition to the masses definitely provided the media play the game! They are a carmaker in F1 to help sell car!

Will the deal profit to Proton? Definitely as I said, we could easily imagine Proton getting more modern mass market engines 1.2, 1.4, 1.6 and 2.0 petrol and diesel, more modern gearboxes since the Renault-Nissan alliance has a lot to offer!

Will the deal profit to Genii! Could they hope for anything better!? The Mastercard deal did not materialize, they lost the support of Renault Group even if they'll keep the engine for now! Showcasing Lotus was the best that could happen to them!

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bftd! Where did you read that!? I live in France and believe me, nobody other than - some specialized media people - is screaming about it! Remember France doesn't have a GP, doesn't have a driver, so not having a team is not that important, actually next year France will not even have a broadcaster if Canal+ doesn't pick up the tab!

Nedasay! looks like the media are doing it again, spreading rubbish as usual.

It's a real shame France have dropped mostly out of F1, they have had a fantastic team with Renault F1.

People might think I'm going OTT with it all, well I just think it is better for a proper link to Chapman's Lotus to have a go at resurrecting the Lotus name in motorsport.

Group Lotus is owned by Malaysians, funded by Malaysian money, but it is still the same road car company owned by Colin Chapman.

They are not claiming the rights to carry on the Team Lotus history, they will gain a new history to go along side it.

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£40m is the Houses of Commons meal subsidy allowance, it's peanuts in the big scheme of things. I am under the impression that Lotus are struggling to build to expand at Hethel, hence why aftersales have moved (again) to free up factory 4 for production. If Lotus were to go to Norfolk Council who are permanently turning down their planning applications with £40m of the govt's money in the bank and a requirement to create 1,000 jobs with it, the bureaucrats in Norwich would struggle to stop them due to pressures from above. Why they turn them down is beyond me, it's an old airfield in the middle of nowhere, it's hardly prime land but they have done, time and time again!

I still think Lotus is politically a "No Go" area for the British Conservative government after the Delorean Scandal, the press would have a field day digging up all of the old Colin Chapman/John Delorean/Fred Bushell GPD who did what to who stuff If Lotus was given any sort of loan.

It maybe! wink.gif

Mind you my English is a little too good don't you think? lol

Lotus are a automotive engineering leader, that is true. One thing they can't do is manufacture components, so by partnering with Genii they have access to specialists who can produce the components for them. They can also access technology they don't currently have at Hethel.

This forum seems to be quite anti Bahar, before they guy even gets a chance to prove himself. Let's give the guy a chance!

As Genii are an investment capitol organisation, I dont really see how they can get Lotus any better access to component manufacturers than they currently have.

Lotuses problem with component supply is the small quantities they require compared to the mass produced OEM, and the fact they cant take advantages of economies of scale unless the component is shared with a mass produced vehicle.

I myself dont class myself as anti Dany Bahar, indeed he may be a great guy on a social level, but you have to admit he certainally seems to bring out the worst in quite a few people with his comments and actions..

As for whether you are Mr.Bahar, I dunno, but I do know the past Lotus CEO had the courage to publically be a member of a couple Lotus internet forums and commented on various events he was a party too, without resorting to hiding behind a psudoname.

Edited by billy fish
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This is OT

Nedasay! looks like the media are doing it again, spreading rubbish as usual.

It's a real shame France have dropped mostly out of F1, they have had a fantastic team with Renault F1.

bftd, there's something you need to understand! For many people in France the only real french team was Ligier/Prost GP and that team disappeared years ago!

Renault F1 Team was seen as the Renault team yes but not as a 'French' team. It's just a culture thing for the team to be really french it would have required the factory to be based in France! It wasn't, part of it was! The worst thing was that the french side and the brit side were sometimes at war behind closed doors! The team never had much support from big french companies cause autoracing has a terrible image! Yes I know even with Loeb being 7 times WRC WC!

Will Lotus Renault GP gain new history!? Yes definitely but people will only remember that a Renault won a GP or a championship! Lotus is a sponsor, Yes they'll have a say in things cause sponsors always do have a say! That will be it! The worst thing being that Renault will have very little to do with it! Still their name will stay in the statistics and history!

You want my opinion, untainted one. I don't blame Dany Bahar he's doing thing the way he sees fit! I don't fully agree with it from a marketing standpoint it looks like it's all smoke and mirrors! However I like what he's done in building the most solid mgmt team! I like the prototypes he put on display in Paris! Now I would like these prototypes to come to dealerships but it doesn't look like it. It looks like they are changing their mind on the engine which will generate delays! At the Paris Autoshow it was said that Esprit would hit the streets in 2012, now the word in Lotus PR is 2013! Elan was supposed to be 2013! Elise should be 2014 and Elite would be 2014! Four completely new cars in the span of 2 years!!! They signed with Genii Renault to help sell cars that are little more than vaporware right now and they barely advertise the current range!!!!

I blame Proton cause yet again they messed up badly on this one! You don't grant a name to change your mind less than a year after especially if you commit with a marketing specialist who arguably is a better negotiator...!!! The deal the had with TF was for 5 years! TF will use that in court against them it will be hell to pay! It will drag on for years!

When Proton bought Lotus they didn't do their due diligence properly they did not talk to the owner of the F1 team! Recently they failed to acquire the rights from the owner of the Team Lotus brand! TF didn't! He went to Proton and obtained the rights! He then built a solid team in six months while others struggled! He said they would finish tenth in the championship and they did! He built tremendous support with the fans of Lotus and the Fans of F1! He obtained support from Ecclestone! Now the guy is no angel! How could he be an angel?! On a daily basis he fights the like of Kingfisher, Virgin Airlines, Tiger airways, Chinese Airlines... His business is growing and fast! He plays hardball but is he doing anything that Ryanair, Easyjet, Southwest, Flybe wouldn't!? Hell no! He's a businessman he protects his interest and he will lobby for it!

Dany Bahar will have a terrible time obtaining a name change for the Lotus Renault GP chassis cause he'll have to fight Team Lotus, Ferrari, RBR, STR and Williams! Yup they will have to convince all teams to agree to it and yet these four teams may not see it that way!

Besides when madfry says that Proton has been pouring money in Hethel for the past 14 years! How much money are we talking about! Definitely not the type of money that Ford, Audi and Fiat have been pouring at Aston Martin, Lamborghini, and Maserati! Mind you Proton doesn't wrestle in the same league I know!

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My problem with Dany Bahr is that for a so called marketing genius the maner to which he has conducted everything has been in my view a public relations disaster.

No matter what the truth he has come across as a bully and brits don't like that kind of thing - hence the support for TF as he's the underdog AND a victim.

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Ok up to an extent any car can be made anywhere! It's true for cheap cars and the most exclusive ones! Porsche Boxters are made in Finland, Aston Rapides is made in Austria, Even Ferrari has its Scaglietti made outside 'Modena'! However Nobody would be ok to see these three companies relocated elsewhere. At best they can move to new factories not too far from their previous site! Now moving the entire production out of a country is just equivalent to brand murder! Not just company murder! Lotus stands for excellence in engineering which means the company and brand number one asset is its staff! You move production outside the UK you lose everything! Yes I know some will say keep R&D, engineering and design in the UK and move the rest elsewhere! For some reason I don't think that method will ever work in the automotive industry! If it was to work why would start ups like Fisker and Tesla invest massive amount of money in buying and refurbishing their own factories!

Now to all the ones saying that Lotus did not offer much back to Proton for all the money Proton invested! What were you thinking!? Lotus can develop the most potent. most fuel efficient engine and chassis! They will only engineer it provided the client can pay and manufacture it! Remember that the old Ecotec engine used by GM was designed by Lotus! Now Lotus had no problem designing that engine cause GM could pour the equivalent of what Proton poured in Lotus - in the last 14 years - in one big lump and was able to develop the engine platform afterwards! Seriously Lotus can only do so much it is down to their client to manufacture what they can! Proton production is estimated to 160,000 cars a year, GM sells about 4M cars a year their respective budget for R&D are not the same! The tooling in the factory is not the same either! Therefore the product you get is not the same! Why is the 'campro' such a bad engine cause between the R&D engine and the production engine, a more elaborated camshaft design was dropped! Why was it dropped? I don't know but complexity and cost may have been the reasons!

By the way Proton new hybrid city car propulsion tech has been developed by Lotus and you'll find the same engine in Jaguars! How is that for payback! The most modern tech packaged in an Ital Design skin! This is what everybody wants!Right?! However up to now Proton has been more famous for rebadging Mitsubishis and not much else! I'm not putting the blame on them! They are a young company and they are developing at their own pace and it's a slow pace! They have started to roll their own design with Savvy and Gen 2! They look ok on the outside! You sit inside and you realize that they have a long way to go to reach the levels reached by Hyundai/Kia! I wish them the best in their development even if I think that turning down VW offer was a mistake! Now the deal with Genii and Renault maybe a godsend for them!

Now to go back to Lotus Renault GP!

Will the deal profit to Group Lotus? If they can win races or score podiums and rebrand the cars by 2013 if the other F1 teams allow rebranding! Dany Bahar not being popular with some team owners I wish them luck!

Will the deal profit to Lotus Cars in terms of engineering? Maybe but I don't really know what they have to learn, Exos was the demonstrator that they have the capacity to develop a F1 car in house! Kers they already have that! Carbon & Composites ok now that would be a joke! Now in terms of exposition to the masses definitely provided the media play the game! They are a carmaker in F1 to help sell car!

Will the deal profit to Proton? Definitely as I said, we could easily imagine Proton getting more modern mass market engines 1.2, 1.4, 1.6 and 2.0 petrol and diesel, more modern gearboxes since the Renault-Nissan alliance has a lot to offer!

Will the deal profit to Genii! Could they hope for anything better!? The Mastercard deal did not materialize, they lost the support of Renault Group even if they'll keep the engine for now! Showcasing Lotus was the best that could happen to them!

Have you ever driven a Proton with a first generation CamPro engine from Lotus? As you have said, Lotus developed engines for GM so why is ot when the parent company asked, they came up with an engine, whose annoying torque dip between 2000 - 3000 rpm is the stuff of legends here in Malaysia? In the end, Bosch came in with IAFM just to rectify this. Bosch. Not Lotus, BOSCH.

So, a more complex engine idea was dropped. This is Lotus we are talking about. Famous for engineering simple, elegant, powerful & cost-effective solution (was going to say cheap).

Hybrid propulsion? Does the name Frazer Nash ring any bells? Lotus didn't actually do everything themselves.

Why blame Proton for the shenanigans of Tony Fernandez? He knew very well there were limits to the use of Lotus name by Proton, limits that in the end Proton couldn't tolerate. Ask yourself, if dear old Tony thinks that Proton unfairly withdrew their licensing, why on earth did he pay David Hunt for the name Team Lotus? He could have just sued Proton for breach of contract, instead of squabbling over Team Lotus name.

Last night on the national news, he suddenly gave interview on National tv that he is interested in partnering with the national carrier? With the national carier angry enough with this guy to actually create a budget airline brand just to compete with the guy? With the long history of bad blood between the two airlines? But hey, that's Tony - Make Money. Sure, root for the underdog if you want, but here in Malaysia he is a crony capitalis if there is one.

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There are a couple more:

MERCEDES GP PETRONAS F1 TEAM

SAUBER F1 TEAM

From here: http://www.fia.com/e...2011_entry.aspx

I would expect that there will be an updated entry list within a few weeks where the Renault F1 Team name will change to Lotus Renault GP.

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Latest from Twitter....

@WTF1.co.uk - "Sources say Tony Fernandes' team will race as '1Malaysia F1 Team' in 2011 but will remain in the green and yellow livery of Team Lotus."*

*It's from WTF1 so don't take it too seriously! :lol:

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Somebody else jumped ship.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/27122010/23/mansell-chapman-group-lotus.html

It seems that for many, especially the Chapmans, they supported Lotus Racing based on the fact that Group Lotus was supporting them. They never wanted anyone to resurrect the Team Lotus name, which to many ended when it fell to bankcrupcy raiders.

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I'm not impressed. Just what did the Chapmans expect was going to happen when they sold off their interest in the team?

If they were so concerned they should have kept ownership. They took the money and it's not their say anymore.

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