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Lotus Renault GP


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Still pedantic and more to the point perhaps, what does it matter?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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I think that Group Lotus need to demonstrate that there is a stronger link than just being there as a Renault sponsor, and this being a marketing exercise, before they can "claim" jim Clark.

Somethink like this?

lotusevoracupdrivenbyjarnotrulliatsnetterton-630.jpg

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I want to support a Lotus Formula 1 team. I was gutted when I bought my Esprit in '94 as a huge enthusiast to see the then F1 team fold that season.

I waited until last year to see the name return.

I can see the reasons into all these developments (though agree to the uninitiated it must seem very confusing).

I'm excited by the Group Lotus developments with the Road Car side (if they can make it happen) because of the Esprit development as its why as an owner I entered this forum years ago.

I have to say I do feel a bit for Fernandes - I know ultimately he is a businessman who saw the potential of having a sleeping giant of a brand like Team Lotus associated with his new team - but do believe he really wanted it to represent what once was. That goes for Norfolk man Gascoyne.

Nothing will ever replace Colins presence. That said I was still passionate for the team without Colin up to '94 under Peter Warr etc.

I'll support both teams bearing the brand though it seems Tony may go the 1Malaysia route now. He is based in Norfolk still and CTL did use some of the old F1 cars to display at their factory.

I hope the Renault/Kubica/Petrov Lotus does well given they are/were a current longstanding team but I was also expected the Lotus Racing car to improve.........

We'll see - whats not changed is my support for the Marque. :thumbsup:

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Im looking forward to the 2011 F1 season, had not been much of an F1 fan for the past 10yrs or so, When the lotus proton joined last season it was a bonus as the layout of the F1 season seemed to of changed for the better i.e rules, classes etc. To find out that another Lotus team has now joined is even better! I must admit the new black and gold car looks stunning and hope the car performs well in its first season.

All in all both teams are good for the brand! In the long run i think it will help push sales on the new road cars that have just been un veiled by lotus, Just wish both teams the best for 2011, and look forward to some good races this year :thumbup: I think the fact that there are any teams with the name lotus on them these days is a big bonus for us lotus enthusiasts, so im sitting on the fence as i hope they both do well enough to be seen in 2012 :thumbsup:

Regards danny

A

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Im looking forward to the 2011 F1 season, had not been much of an F1 fan for the past 10yrs or so, When the lotus proton joined last season it was a bonus as the layout of the F1 season seemed to of changed for the better i.e rules, classes etc. To find out that another Lotus team has now joined is even better! I must admit the new black and gold car looks stunning and hope the car performs well in its first season.

All in all both teams are good for the brand! In the long run i think it will help push sales on the new road cars that have just been un veiled by lotus, Just wish both teams the best for 2011, and look forward to some good races this year :thumbup: I think the fact that there are any teams with the name lotus on them these days is a big bonus for us lotus enthusiasts, so im sitting on the fence as i hope they both do well enough to be seen in 2012 :thumbsup:

Regards danny

Of course the car is going to well, its the Renaut R31, the successor to the R30, both being Renault. It may be "Lotus Renault GP"'s first season, but it isn't the teams first season.

That team can never call their car a Lotus, unless they throw all the data they have off of the Renault team and create a car from scratch, as Lotus Racing/Team Lotus, Virgin Racing/Marussia Virgin Racing and HRT did in 2010.

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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That team can never call their car a Lotus, unless they throw all the data they have off of the Renault team and create a car from scratch, as Lotus Racing/Team Lotus, Virgin Racing/Marussia Virgin Racing and HRT did in 2010.

Not at all. They can get all the other teams to agree to them changing the name of the car to Lotus, but that is not likely as I would not expect Team Lotus to agree, or they can decide to forgo the privileges and money that they earned with their constructor championship position in 2010 and start as the 12th team in the standings. They do not have to redesign the car or get rid of the data they gained as Renault. But it would cost them $50 million or so which would not make sense.

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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Hmmmm, Group Lotus buys into an existing GP team as a marketing ploy or Malaysian entrepreneur rents,then buys a Lotus name for his team, also I guess for marketing purposes.

I dont think either option is in the true Colin Chapman spirit of Lotus,passion,innovation and technical excellence so I will carry on supporting Williams in 2011.

Edited by billy fish
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Looking at the new livery I noticed that the car is sponsorbare other than Lotus, Trinasolar, IWT, Renault and Total!

Therefore Lotus Renault GP was unable to retain any of the sponsors from last season other than Trinasolar!

That doesn't bode well as I think Lotus money only will not be sufficient to take the team to the next level!

if the rumor reported by Joe Saward is true - Lotus now being majority shareholder not to say sole shareholder - Dany Bahar will have to work marvels to get sponsorship on the car!

As for renaming the car not only will they have to face the natural opposition of Team Lotus but they will also have to convince a Williams, a team formerly sponsored by Air Asia! Ferrari where Dany Bahar left a lukewarm souvenir and Redbull where he also left a not so positive impression! I hope he can pull it for the sake of Group Lotus but getting the authorization to change a chassis name requires unanimous vote! Don't think that McLaren will be to keen on helping them either now that they are looking at cutting their own share of the sports car market!

In addition, at the moment the media is still calling the team Renault! Worse getting Jean Alesi - a Ferrari stalwart - to be a Lotus ambassador for the T125 Exos program is a poor joke in my opinion! Dany Bahar, Gino Rosatto and Claudio Berro are pushing it very far! This is my opinion!

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I believe that Lotus Renault GP could morph it's name without agreement when the Concorde agreement renews (2013?). This "just" requires the funding to keep going for 2 years.

Personally I fear it just as likely that there will be no Lotus team by then (although there may be a 1st Malaysoa Team Air Asia) Renault wobbled big time in the middle of last season, and i do not believe that the French will enjoy watching "their" team morph into a British team. I do not see Genii having any loyalty to anyone who is not writing cheques regularly

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Group Lotus will not be allowed to name their chassis 'Lotus', because Team Lotus' chassis are named 'Lotus'. They will have to name something like 'Lotus Racing' or 'Group Lotus'.

I still just think this is a advertising ploy to try and sell their new new cars.

To me, Fernandes' Team Lotus will always be Lotus and Lotus Renault GP will always be Renault.

That is just my own view, as I wasn't around when the original Team Lotus was racing, and over the past couple of months I have researched both Team Lotus and Group Lotus and Fernandes' Team Lotus has more of Colin's inspiration in the team

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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I still just think this is a advertising ploy to try and sell their new new cars.

You know that an F1 car is often defined as a fast moving advertising medium. F1 wouldn't currently exist if it wasn't for advertising, that's the reason it's so big and where it is. What manufacturer of sports cars wouldn't want their own F1 team.

As I've said before, I thing Lotus Racing did an awesome job last year, they're a great bunch of guys and really have engaged with their fans better than any other team in history but 14 months ago, what did they have to do with Lotus? Nada...

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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What manufacturer of sports cars wouldn't want their own F1 team.

Group Lotus haven't until until a couple on months ago. Until they realise they could cash in on Fernandes' hard work!

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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You think Dany Bahar, ex Ferrari & Red Bull only had the idea to get into F1 when Tony Fernandes did? They're in every major race series in the world now and these plans were as good as in place before he even signed a contract, F1 not being on the list would have been a whoopsy!

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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So you should admire their business acumen if nothing else.

Mind you, it could be argued that all Fernandes has done is cashed in on Chapman's hard work.

Maybe he is, but without him, the Lotus name would not be back in F1. Tony, Mike and the rest of the team did a great job to achieve what they did in 5 months, building a car from scratch with a small budget, in F1 terms anyway.

That is just the way that Colin set up his team, they know that aren't going to be instantly successful, and that is the mindset you should take into the sport. If you go into the sport with the mindset that you are going to do well, if you don't, you feel bad.

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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There again, it could be that Dany Behar wanted to take Lotus back into F1 and saw the opportunity to do it with Tony Fernandes but things didn't work out satisfactorily leading to Lotus getting involved with the Renault team and, if Fernandes hadn't started his team, we would all be saying how brilliant it is of Behar to take Lotus back into F1.

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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Trevor, pardon me if I say that without evidence it's just speculation what Behar was thinking, when he thought it, and when he first started talking to Fernandes.

We do know that Fernandes got to Bernie first with his own money and sponsors and developed a team from scratch.

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And we also know that David Hunt, the ex-owner of Team Lotus, had approached Group Lotus about entering into a partnership between Team Lotus and Group Lotus to get Lotus back into F1, but they didn't want to. But now that someone else has got there before them, they are miffed and want in. Buying into an established team and putting a Lotus sticker on it. Fooling the casual F1 fans and the Group Lotus fanboys, but the real F1 fans like myself can see that they are just doing this for their own gain, to sell the new range of (Ferrari)-Lotuses.

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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I think What you meant to say Bibs is that Lotus rents badge space in most racing series in the world.

The Indy Car isn't a Lotus....period. The F1 car is a rebadged Renault. The Evora 24 hours is True Lotus, like the old Lemans Esprit and SCCA cars were.

No Matter who you support next year, you can't change the fact that it's a Renault, the Team employees were all Renault Employees and the Drivers drove for Renault. Its a Renault with Lotus sponsorship.

That said its a cheaper way to get into F1 than starting your own Team from scratch, and needs must in times when money is in short supply.

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I think What you meant to say Bibs is that Lotus rents badge space in most racing series in the world.

And they have to cheek to say 'The Real Lotus is Back'. Which is wrong as Group Lotus have never raced in F1 and have never even made an F1 car.

you can't change the fact that it's a Renault, the Team employees were all Renault Employees and the Drivers drove for Renault. Its a Renault with Lotus sponsorship.

That said its a cheaper way to get into F1 than starting your own Team from scratch, and needs must in times when money is in short supply.

Needs much when you are doing it to flog over-priced under-engineered Ferrari knock-offs if they are made. After all Bahar did work at Ferrari.

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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Wasn't Renault a Benetton once? When did Renault pay enough for it to stop being a Benetton and become a Renault.

Is F1 the only sport in the world where team are bought and sold, where employees work for more than one team and where history has to grow afresh each time?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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I know what you are saying, but that is a different situation, for one the Renault F1 team, was owned by the Renault car company, whereas Team Lotus wasn't.

And this trouble has only come about since Group Lotus sponsored the Genii Capital owned Renault F1 team/Genii Captial and Group Lotus owned Renault F1 team, which ever one it is.

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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Trevor, pardon me if I say that without evidence it's just speculation what Behar was thinking, when he thought it, and when he first started talking to Fernandes.

Of course it was speculation. That's why it started with "it could be that" but Lotus gave permission to 1Malaysia Racing before the start of last season. Before then there was the LiteSpeed entry which was turned down but they were planning to call themselves Lotus but I don't know who said so.

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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I know what you are saying, but that is a different situation, for one the Renault F1 team, was owned by the Renault car company, whereas Team Lotus wasn't.

And this trouble has only come about since Group Lotus sponsored the Genii Capital owned Renault F1 team/Genii Captial and Group Lotus owned Renault F1 team, which ever one it is.

Antony, you aren't Tony Fernandes lawyer are you?

The original Team Lotus died a long lingering death that was very painfull to die hard Team Lotus F1 supporters, and I have absolutely no desire to have to go through all that again.

,.

I admire your level of support for Tony Fernandes Lotus Racing-Team Lotus but at the end of the day this is all about capitolising on a logo for marketing and merchandising purposes, and both sides of the current dispute are guilty of that IMO.

Even If Tony Fernandes looses the fight to keep the Team Lotus name, I will not support the Lotus Renault effort even though the deal seems to be fine to people who know and care little of Lotus history and/or arent really bothered by who actually builds, works on the cars and where they are made.

The Evora 24 hours is True Lotus,

I thought Dallara did all of the development work on the Evora Le Mans Effort chassis,Cosworth the Engine and an Austrian effort (Jet Alliance) was running the show.

Not much Norfolk involvement there mate!

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Support the team that employs Mike Gascoyne.... they'll be the ones doing the business this year! IMHO.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

<br />

In practice, there is!

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