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London Riots


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Students are trashing central London, doesn't really help their cause and doesn't show them in a good light. They even smashed up Charles & Camilla's car on Regent St. Perhaps they should really be working, they've clearly got too much time on their hands.

Students, workshy layabouts or the future of our nation? :huh:

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According to some people on here the future of our nation is workshy layabouts.

I really think a lot of the so called students do not know what it is about they are just there with the crowd via per pressure/day out etc. and you always will get the militant/leftwing section in the student groups.

Personally I think there are far to many soft degree subjects that have no value in the work place and should be replaced by tech colleges etc. that does not mean that I think university education should be charged for rather that there are far to many people going to university for worthless subjects thet would be better cattered for in tech colleges etc or in the work place.

Labour will now jump on the band wagon, but they created the mess with creating so many worthless degrees.

As for Charlies car being attacked, what he hell was the driver/security thinking of by taking them that route?

Chris

Edited by red vtec

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I wouldn't be surprised if they were anti establishment Anarchists, turning up to throw a couple of Molotov's and have what they call fun. They use protest situations to stir up anger.

I never met or heard of a genuine student when I was at uni, who'd do something so stupid. They are far too ideological and conformist.

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Given the temperature out there, a quick burst from a water cannon would have given the little darlings some pause for thought!

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

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In practice, there is!

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The London student riots were this evening's lead story even in the States. While I don't condone their trashing of property and confrontational approach with the police, it isn't hard to understand why emotions are running so high when one's tuition bill is tripled. Bit draconian I'd say, but then again I'm not familiar with the actual budgetary numbers in play.

Reminds me of my Berkeley days. Been there, done that (in "the '60s," for quite different reasons, though the California university system has also recently raised its tuition costs substantially, with the predictable student riots ensuing), but only as an interested observer---no, really!:whistle:

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Should therefore education only be available to the already rich and entitled? Education should be free, anything else breads fascism.

Entry level standards should go up so that University return to be University rather than an extension of high school.

I never side with violence, but there is a strong case against lifting fees.

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Based on yesterdays performance - Responsible adults - No! - Immature Children - Yes!!

Wookie's idea would also have removed any face covering scarf/balaclava or hoodie used to hide their cowardly actions.

Edited by mayesprit

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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It's a strange situation emerging for England's students. A fellow student sitting the same course in the same university in the same classroom but comes from either Wales or Scotland won't have to pay fees. So I can understand why they are miffed to be sadled with such a huge debt (up to £9000) before they're even in the workplace. However I doubt many of the protesting students are rioting thugs and their cause has most likely been infiltrated by Rent-a-Mob.

The idiots who attacked our future King have no idea how close they came to be on the receiving end of serious retribution from the security services. Although, questions must be asked as to who made the decision to carry on with the planned route instead of diverting through somewhere less volatile.

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Yes fees will go up in some cases but £9000 is the maximum, they won't all be that much!

Also you pay it back when you are earning more, so if you do a non-degree then you get a none-job and never pay it back.

It's got nothing to do with current status, if you are poor so what, you go to uni and pay your fees when you get a job!

Get a good degree, get a good job and it's a minor inconvinience. I know lots fo my peers who, 10 years later are still paying a pittance for the student fees despit being in well paid jobs, their choice.

Having been an Engineering student at Manchester I personally feel it was not disciplined enough, too much drinking and dossing, I certainly did my fair share!

With courses sometimes only being 4-5 hours a week in some cases, that should be packed into a year at 30-30 hours a week, not spread out into 3 years. I never worked very hard and uni was something to do during the day between drinking sessions...

Expectations need to be reset.

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Education should be free... But unfirtunately we don't live in a society of unimited cash.

It's like healthcare - you can't pay for everything for everyone.

Otherwise where do you stop? PhD's that take years? should we (the tax payer) stump that up?

What about courses people take during their working carrers currently paid for by emplyers? same argument says as education it should be free.

I do agree everything should be free up to A levels however university education is expensive.

What about people who study at the cost of a UK tax payer then go abroad? hardly contributes to our society.

As above, what about the wolly degrees that again have no real merit other than personal advantage.

So it's not as simple as yes / no.

I do think the scale of the increases is heavy and potentially been handled very very badly. Also the repaymnent method is far to complex.

To me a better system would be to assume that the loan is repayed over 40 years. Every year you are earning below £x then the government pays that year, if you earn over £y then you pay the full amount and if in between then it's shared.

To put into context the full payment would work out at £13/week this way.

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What seems to be missed out of all the media coverage (and is therefore riling the students further) is that £9000 is tha cap, not all degrees will cost that much. I anticipate as funding is withdrawn, most degrees will level out at about £5k per year, with the more elite being up nearer £8k.

I doubt many will get to £9k, unless they are in extremely high demand.

There is also now a requirement for universities to offer free places to the poor, therefore negating most of the student's arguments.

I feel for the students, but we've been here before. I paid about £13k for my 2 year course back in 99. That's the way it was, so I spent my inheritancthe idiots doing the rioting are not helping, and as said above... They're probably not students.

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According to the Commissioner the thugs only truned up on the route seconds before the royal car arrived so confrontation could not be avoided.

As I understand it, education still remains free. You don't have to pay up front and only if you get a job after graduating paying at least £21,000pa do you start to pay something back.

So, get you worthless degree in media studies, earn £20,000pa and you have a free education.

I have 2 lads who are about to use the new system and personally, I have no problem with the new system

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So it could be argued that the new system is a success tax? Study hard, get a decent job and pay back your loan at a higher rate. Doss around for a few years, go on the dole and never have to pay back your loan as after a number of years it gets written off.

Good incentive.

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It could be argued, but I don't think it'll work that way.

Those with Mickey Mouse degrees are todays unemployed graduates and I expect that that will remain constant.

What demand is there for 3rd class degrees in Russain Film Censorship and why should that change?

Those with ambition and ability will choose the more academic degree courses in the knowledge that the qualification should secure their financial future.

So I don't think we'll find talented graduates deliberately sitting at home turning down work just to avoid re-paying the admission fees. They're far too bright and ambitious to adopt such a tactic. Most will need to undertake post graduate courses ( Medicine/law/Accountancy etc) and will want to crack on without delay.

Of course it could be that I'm just being too optamistic :rolleyes:

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I can see a point where students are interviewing the university as much as the uni interviewing the student. If my sons are expected to pay £30k for a further education it had better be a bloody good one. You would be pretty miffed if a £300 washing machine wasnt up to the job, same goes for the uni. I left school at 16, the state paid for my 3 years training and ive worked for myself from the day I left college in 1986. I think in all the VAT , taxes ive paid so far they have done quite well out of me.

Edited by mdw
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Welcome to Tory Rule.... seriously did anyone expect anything else?

As for the Lib Dems, they shamelessly led the student population down the garden path and then sold them out totally. I hear Nick Clegg saying how it would been impossible to stick to his pledge but he should've thought of that before he signed it. I've never seen such shameless greed for power regardless of policy of principals. You can't blame people for being angry.

I don't condone the violence but I'm not surprised or shocked by it. I'll admit it's a shame Charlie's car got trashed but only because it's stolen the headlines from a far more important issue and that's the lack of investment in the future of this country.

Give it time, we're being run by a government that don't have a clear majority, propped up by a tiny minority of turn coats who've lied to the electorate and betrayed the people that voted for them... including me! The country's going to suffer hardship and division because of old school Tory policy not a real need to repay the debt in record time, in the meantime millions will join the welfare cues and cuts are handed out to the police and prisons while the crime rate will inevitably rocket.

In short and if you think you've seen the worst think again.

Sorry folks... rant over... however this country's ****ed thumbdown.gif

Edited by Stirling_Villeneuve

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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So it appears the same sort of thing the world over. In the US it's a battle of control and oneupmanship and to hell with doing what the people elected them to do. Meanwhile the ship is sinking and even under threat of losing re-election they ignore the warnings to continue the battle for the way of the party. We shouldn't have political parties, just individual representatives that will be judged on what they do for their country or state, not preoccupied with a political party power struggle.

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Hypothetical question:-

If Charles and/or Camilla had got out of their car to talk to the students, thereby showing concern and a wilingness to understand the students point of view first hand, what would have happened?

Would they have pushed a potential future Monarch/Consort to the ground and put him/her in hospital?

Would it have been an old man/woman who was attacked?

Would it have been an 'Establishment figurehead' getting a dose of retribution?

Would they have engaged him/her in a lively debate conducted at conversational levels?

How long would it have taken the police to start hospitalising protesters in an attempt to restore order?

Any thoughts on the matter?

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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

<br />

In practice, there is!

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The lack of respect the protesters were showing I've no doubt some coward from the back of the crowd would have chucked over another paint bomb and eventually people would have been shot. The fact he's (theoretically) our next King would have meant jack, those kids painted graffiti on Churchill's statue in Parliament Square if the news is to be believed and how that's not a hanging offence I don't know...

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Any thoughts on the matter?

Firstly I can't see Charlie having any sympathy whatsoever, even less now he and the Mrs have got to spend Sunday afternoon with the T-Cut while waiting for Autoglass to arrive.

1) Undoubtably, look what happened to Bernie Ecclestone.

2) No it would've been written up as an act of high treason, the capital punishment act would be dusted off, ( give it time) and the perpetrators of this dastardly act would be publically hung at Tyburn. Nick Clegg would claim he didn't support the death penalty but times have changed.

3) See answer 1

4) Yes... along the lines of "Bugger awf you riff raff" for about 10 seconds.

5) They'd been doing that for hours already... more of the same but undoubtably with far more violence.

I'm assuming Charlie's outriders are armed? If not they're not a lot of use in this day and age, if so how long before the first shot was fired?

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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That car would be armored against anything short of an RPG, a paint bomb and eggs thrown from a distance isn't much of a threat.

The close protection guys are also armed up the ying-yang and would have responded with 'extreme prejudice' if someone had approached no doubt.

More of an issue is why they were even there. :wallbash: I suspect someone is now undergoing an extensive debriefing... (hats on - no coffee)

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Welcome to Tory Rule.... seriously did anyone expect anything else?

The country's going to suffer hardship and division because of old school Tory policy not a real need to repay the debt in record time

Interesting. Are you seriously blaming the country's current financial crisis on the Conservative government?

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Interesting. Are you seriously blaming the country's current financial crisis on the Conservative government?

No but it's a global problem, look at the rest of Europe and America. Brown did a damn good job of pulling things together once the system went into freefall, I admit it was the only good job he did and don't get me started on Blair, however that's not the issue...

The issue here is the cuts are draconian and they don't have to be! The govt doesn't have to pay the debt off in such a short time, it simply wants too and that's where Tory ideology is so unjust.

It may not come as a shock but I didn't vote Tory, however I wouldn't have such a problem is they'd found themselves in power fair and square. If people voted for them they've only themselves to blame for the destruction of the NHS, a fair education system and pretty much everything in terms of social care and cultural heritage this country has built up since the war. I'm not saying it's a perfect system but it's not ripe for tearing down and ripping up. The fact is the Tories didn't pull enough votes to get a majority but thanks to the deceit and greed of a tiny minority party here they are ruling the roost. That's what angers me and that anger is driving other people to protest. You can't just lie your way into power but it seems Nick Clegg doesn't think that's a problem.

Back to the riots, the Pole Tax riots started the demise of Thatcherism, people know that, it's not right but they know it works. Given the fact we have yet another govt the doesn't give a toss about what the population think it's no surprise that people are taking to the streets. It will get worse too, we're 6 months into the coalition govt and the real pain and injustice isn't being felt yet... a very sad state of affairs.

Edited by USAndretti42
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Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Churchill

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The Cenotaph

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