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Chapmans back Proton in Lotus row‎

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Who is Classic Team Lotus' landlord?

All getting a bit boring now TBH, I can differentiate between Group Lotus & team Lotus. making the Chapman family pick sides is a little childish

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Classic Team Lotus belongs to the Chapman family, Clive Chapman is in charge.

Clive and Hazel are only protecting Chapmans history, especially when they asked for neither of the parties to use Team Lotus.

Edited by USAndretti42
Removed quote

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Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Chapman family sell their interest in Team Lotus to David Hunt and now that David Hunt re-sold it to Tony Fernandes and he actually wishes to use what the paid for (which essentially is the name) they prefer he didn't? This also after giving TF the hat along with what appeared to be heartfelt comments? WTF??? Very strange indeed!!! no.gif

Edited by comem47

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I think you'll find a box of those hats in Clive's office...


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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I think you'll find that box is missing at least one more hat! :dry:

Edited by Dave Eds
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Dave.

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Can we all have a hat each then so we can throw them at the Renault team sponsored by a rich childish git next year as thanks for being a bunch of [email protected]?

Seeing the Chapmans jump ship so easily makes me laugh.

Lotus back in F1, it's never been so much of a joke!


Chunky Lover

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This seems to me a very contrived statement, I can almost feel an arm twisted up my back. I'm liking the current management regime less and less. The problem for me is how much damage will be done to the mark before sense or receivership is reached. For the first time in 50 years I'm starting to feel negatively toward Lotus.


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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Clive Chapman is just hitching his wagon to the entity that he currently sees as being the most beneficial financially to his organisation.

He actually quietly distanced himself from Lotus Racing a couple of months ago, which signaled that this was coming.

I get the feeling Clive Chapman and Classic Team Lotus will be an intregal part of the new Lotus Museum that is going to be built by btfd's boss,

Clive is very much a chip off the old block i.e. I dont trust him as far as I could throw him.


SUNP0003-1.jpg

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I think Classic Team Lotus need to keep on good terms with Group Lotus. It's confusing enough with two Lotus F1 teams without have the company looking after many of the famous race cars fall out with the company that makes the road cars, especially when Team Lotus may have to change its name late next year.

Classic Team Lotus backs Team Air Asia but has nothing to do with the Lotus car company doesn't make much sense, does it?


S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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I love how anyone points out anything against TF, you get accused of working for Danny Bahar, what a joke!!!!!!

I'm a Midlander who is a life long follower of the Lotus brand, maybe I see things from a different perspective. Maybe just maybe I have researched TF, not liking what I have found.

I'm still not sure what I think about Dany Bahar, I will give him a chance to prove himself. He is very ambitious something I admire in anyone, sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't. Lotus as a brand needs to move forward, it has been left behind for way to many years.

Proton are in my eyes the ones to blame for this mess, allowing the name to be used.

I support Group Lotus as I believe it's the only true link left to Chapman's Lotus!

I wish you all a Merry Christmas for tomorrow!

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So are you prepared to state that you do not work for Lotus / Proton? (although you own one of the "staff gift" 1/43 scale esprits :harhar: )

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Is the nose badge upside down?


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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Separate from the F1 issue is the fact that Mr Bahar is not a car guy. He's a marketing /PR person. Maybe he should run the marketing dept, but is that the person you want as the CEO for the whole car company ?

At least John Delorean had the successful launch experience of the Pontiac GTO at GM, but not enough for the design of his own rear engined sports car the DMC-12 , needing Lotus assistance to make it rigid enough so it wouldn't fall part but adding 600 lbs in the process so he could have those gull wing doors (how odd Lotus added weigh in this case !!! ;-P ) Having already chosen the power plant it was terribly underpowered and was the total wrong way to go about designing the car. Delorean had a vision but failed in execution and at the wrong time. Now I don't expect Mr Bahar to design the car himself, but he doesn't have the background of bringing a car design and mfg logistics to market. Just a song and dance man with prancing horse logos and red bull product placement experience. I guess we'll see.

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Oh now what?!

Clive was genuinely happy to have the name brought back in F1!

He was ecstatic to have Lotus Racing showing up at Snetterton!

This is just childish and starting to get seriously annoying!

We'll have two team next year one racing Lotuses one racing Renaults! That's the end of it!...

...For now!

Edited by NedaSay

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Do you envy Clive in his position?

On the one hand, TF comes from nowhere and brings Lotus back to the F1 grid and does a stirling job and we all love him and the team, they're a great bunch of people.

On the other hand, GL come from nowhere and buy into a more successful team with plans to take them over eventually and mimic the days of old with technology partnerships etc.

Also, notwithstanding the fact that CTL are based on Potash Lane, same road as GL who have a lovely test track that the CTL cars are very often seen testing on.

Once the dust has settled, in a couple of years time who will be more 'Lotus'? Hingham or Hethel? That's where you need your thoughts to be and that's where you need to hedge your bets.

I don't envy Clive, to say he's been put between a rock and a hard place is an understatement but he has to ensure the future of his company, of his fathers legacy.

  • Like 1

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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"I'm still not sure what I think about TF, I will give him a chance to prove himself. He is very ambitious something I admire in anyone, sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't."

Works both ways.

A lot of the Lotus DNA has already been pushed out of the company to be replaced with Danny boys playground mates.

I'm not at all confident in his ability to do anything except make pretty lotus t-shirts.

He may well prove me wrong and I sure hope so and if he does I'll happily say "well done I was wrong to his face"

I just see this whole Lotus mess, by that I'm including group Lotus as well as the F1 fiasco, all going horribly wrong and I feel for those true Lotus guys still left (for now) at the factory.

Edited by Simon350S

Chunky Lover

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Define 'horribly wrong' and how the company is going to get to 'horribly wrong' by having over $1bn thrown at it?


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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I think Clive should have kept his head down and remained in the previous stance of just quietly distancing himself from Lotus Racing, and not picking sides. He does not HAVE to back either F1 team; and will look silly which ever way he jumps. It is hard to ungive what has been given, and Fernandes team were given the 500th race and T127 designation. I doubt Caterham cars could rename themselves Classic Group Lotus, so maybe Clive should step out the playground. The four cars, two teams, friendly rivalry model that could have happened would be best for all fans IMHO. Did not realise that BOTH Trulli and Kovalianen have driven for both teams

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I am not surprised to see this news, in fact I was even expecting it, as I got an email a few weeks ago, with some plans for a brand new heritage center. Built by Group, going to be completely filled to the roof with stuff bought and rented from Clive. So it was just a matter of time before this news came.

Didn't you guys know Clive's full name? It is Clive Ben Dover Chapman... He should be ashamed of himself, supporting a team that is not nearly located in Hethel, does not even build his own (Lotus F1) cars, and they even won't be world champions (should they win next year) or how many times is Marlboro, Word Champions in F1 by supporting McLaren and Ferrari?

What a joke! Who takes Bahar and Clive still serious???


Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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By digging a massive hole, flling it with other peoples money and then sodding off having spent it all on dinner parties with his bum chums and clay models and the cars either never coming true or just being plain bad.

I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.

You need to watch Brewsters Millions mate, it'll be on over Christmas I'm sure.

As said, hope I'm proved wrong!


Chunky Lover

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As soon as I read the "statement" I realised that the fix was in.....rock and a hard place to be sure, with some financial lubrication. And any amount of money can be squandered without beneficial results...happens all the time....I don't see much benefit from the trillions of pounds that we owe as a country. Then there was Gordon selling off all the gold reserves at a stupidly low price...yes, money can dribble away at great rate with no valid result. I just hope there's enough left at the end of this farce to get back to a decent sports car manufacturer.....

Edited by molemot

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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I respect Clive Chapman and what he does with CTL, but if the Chapman family wanted to retain the rights to the name "Team Lotus", they shouldn't have sold them in 1990. It's rather pedantic to differentiate between "Team Lotus" and any other form of name for a Lotus F1 team anyway. Any name for a Lotus F1 team (or a car company) is inevitably associated with Colin Chapman - whether it is "Lotus Racing", "Lotus Renault", "Team Lotus", "Group Lotus", "Lotus Cars" or whatever - it is the word "Lotus" in a car/racing context that carries the association. It's a shame Clive Chapman had to be drawn into this mess though.

As I've said before, I think the background to this is that the recent re-launch of Lotus Cars (with Dany Bahar, Sharon Stone etc.) is part of an exit strategy for Proton - basically selling some, most or all of Group Lotus to Genii - with Genii raising the vast sums required for the new models. Since Genii already have an F1 team, it's natural they would want this to become the Lotus F1 team. All the inconsistent mud-slinging about whether Lotus Racing/Team Lotus were good enough, asked for too much money, or broke the license agreement is just noise.

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To be sure, Clive's (and Hazel's) position is not envious, and a relationship or endorsement of TF does nothing for them. They have a legacy to support both financially and emotionally and that support is only stronger with the strengtth of the Group that bears the old man's initials. TBH, TF really has no stake (except monetary) in supporting the TL moniker, no connection with the classic cars, no connection with the road cars which benefited from the engineering aura that followed TL activity. We dog DB for being a marketing wh*re, but TF is no different. He sought to buy the TL legacy and name as a purely marketing exercise to support his racing effort and sponsorships. It's no different than if Richard Branson decided to buy "TL" and rename his team, or Flavio, or Eddie Jordan. At least the Group, apparently wishes to use the tie in with broader benefit: more development of the Lotus brand for advancement of road car production and engineering "cross-pollination."

Merry Christmas Eve! :D

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