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Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan - Page 13 - Motorsport & Trackdays - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan


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So Group Lotus claim victory ? Tony claims victory, The loser Lotus, what a waste of time and effort. The winner the legal beagles.

Still as far as us Lotus Fans go we still have Team Lotus on the grid and going foward with the name and heritage of a wonderful team from Norfolk !

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So Group Lotus claim victory ? Tony claims victory, The loser Lotus, what a waste of time and effort. The winner the legal beagles.

Still as far as us Lotus Fans go we still have Team Lotus on the grid and going foward with the name and heritage of a wonderful team from Norfolk !

Don't forget Renault... they can carry on taking bucket loads of cash from Dany Bleah to promote Clio's! :thumbsup:

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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So Group Lotus claim victory ? Tony claims victory, The loser Lotus, what a waste of time and effort. The winner the legal beagles.

Still as far as us Lotus Fans go we still have Team Lotus on the grid and going foward with the name and heritage of a wonderful team from Norfolk !

Well put!

:sorcerer::thumbsup:

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Well it's midnight here, I stayed up to hear this, my information seems to indicate that Group Lotus is going to appeal, so I'm off to bed.

More ways to spend working capital other than producing cars.

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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A little surprising given the Group Lotus "win" on the front page news here, that GL state they are going to appeal! Not at all clear it seems!

I put the Team Lotus statement below, taken from the Midland Club Lotus site. A piece of advice from TF on how to run a profitable car company ....... twist the knife!

____________________

Team Lotus is very happy that the court case concerning the rights to the Team Lotus name has today come to a positive conclusion and that the team can now focus its full attention on its long-term challenge for honours on and off track. The decision confirms that Team Lotus is the true owner of the full Team Lotus name and the iconic roundel, establishing in law that the Anglo-Malaysian team is the rightful heir to Team Lotus and all associated goodwill.

Team Principal Tony Fernandes gave his comments on behalf of his fellow shareholders Kamarudin Meranun, SM Nasarudin and the 250 strong workforce based in Malaysia and Hingham, UK: "We are all pleased that it has been clarified that we are the rightful owners of Team Lotus. We have always been confident that the factual evidence we presented would lead to this decision and today's judgment confirms that belief. We are of course disappointed about the decision that Group Lotus was entitled to end the our licence agreement in 2010. We entered into that contract on the basis that we were beginning a long-term partnership with Group Lotus but unfortunately they then used technical breaches of the merchandising pre-notification process to bring the licence and our partnership to an end. However, my fellow shareholders and I are firm believers that when one door closes another door opens. In the early days of our agreement we realised its termination was inevitable and as events have unfolded the end of the licence has proved positive for us, with many new avenues being opened up as a result.

"We wanted to develop a long-term relationship with Group Lotus and help them sell more cars around the world but that door closed and now we are delighted that we can turn our attention to ensuring success for Caterham Cars on the road and Team Lotus on track. These are two very exciting brands and their future development, bringing these two iconic brands together under the Caterham Team Lotus umbrella, will see us introduce new Caterham cars and a range of new Team Lotus brands into the global marketplace. Now our main aim is to build on the solid foundations that has made Caterham Cars the model for how to run a profitable contemporary car company and add more history to the incredible story of Team Lotus over the coming months and years and with the people, spirit, passion and determination we have in both businesses we know that marks the next stage in our incredible story."

_____________

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I see Team Lotus now have their merchandise shop open on line get your gear for Silverstone should I spend £50 on a green/yellow replica Team polo shirt or spend extra £20 on a new key ring from Group Lotus classic range !! think I might sleep on it.

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So Group Lotus claim victory ? Tony claims victory, The loser Lotus, what a waste of time and effort. The winner the legal beagles.

Still as far as us Lotus Fans go we still have Team Lotus on the grid and going foward with the name and heritage of a wonderful team from Norfolk !

Absolutly spot on, after all that we get a verdict pretty much of - "as you were".

Its like 2 kids pulling a toy "its mine, no its mine, no its mine" - rippppp.

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It seems and odd summary by the judge.

TF was in breach of contract to Group. He bought a trademark which doesn't exist any more, yet can still use it despite it conflicting with an already established brand.

Group win damages from TL for the contract breach and then just the right to carry on using what's already theirs.

What exactly was he doing for the past couple of weeks? I'm not surprised Group are going to appeal the use of the name TL, they don't want their name to be asscociated with a load of backmarkers..

Total confusion for any outsiders which will only be damaging for the Group brand.

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I'm not surprised Group are going to appeal the use of the name TL, they don't want their name to be asscociated with a load of backmarkers..

However, they were quite happy to do this in 2010 season though, right :lol:

I think it has far less to do with the name and more to do with how much they can eek out of the herritage to further their own gains (both sides).

Sad to see Champan's great legacy in a tug of war.

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.Sad to see Champan's great legacy in a tug of war.

Clearly both think its worth fighting for, and I agree with them.

I have to say I feel the legacy should belong to Group Lotus, no matter if someone else paid to buy it. The road cars deserve the history IMO and it seems ridiculous that a judge had to clarify that GL can use the marque for road cars!!

I am with GL on hoping they win their appeal. Looks like I am in the minority on that one though!

Edited by Nelly9000
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.

However, they were quite happy to do this in 2010 season though, right :lol:

.

The current management weren't, no. This whole story started to develop before the new management were in the office.

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What a load of old pony. People have money to burn. Go get a life the pair of you Lotus toobs.

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

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To me the only important point (and one no one seems to be addressing) is who owns the rights to use the 'Lotus' chassis name.

There is a suggestion in the verdict that use of the word 'Lotus' on its own is owned by Group Lotus, therefore does this prevent TL calling their chassis a Lotus? Can TL rebrand their chassis as Team Lotus and then Renault change their chassis name to 'Lotus' at the end of the Concorde Agreement?

The team names etc doesn't really matter, only one chassis can be called 'Lotus' and if Genii/Group Lotus can't change their chassis name to' Lotus' from 'Renault' at some point in the future then that arrangement will be short lived or really poor value for the Lotus Cars division.

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And thats why they will Appeal.

TBH I'm sick of the whole thing. What Graham fails to mention is that the Team Lotus brand was offered to Group and they refused it. Now they still can't use the Team name in F1 they will throw more toys out of their pram I'm sure, and spend even more instead of using it to develop the cars that they are building....sorry that Magna Stehr are building.

I must say that I did state some time ago that the only loser here is the brand name of both companies. Seems it will continue because of, what seems to me, bragging rights "Mines bigger than yours" etc etc.

About time both parties told the truth and said "Wow! We didn't expect that! We lost some of our case!" instead of, once again, both claiming victory and making themselves look like knobs (once again!)

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GUS82,

a very important point, well spotted. I look forward to those fun and games, as do, no doubt. all those lawyers in the queue who want a go at shaking that particular money-tree.

Nelly900, Billy111s,

three of us!

GJP, ....asscociated with a load of backmarkers.

Everyone is a backmarker for some of their time in the sport (Williams, Maclaren, Red Bull, Torro Rosso, Stewart Racing etc etc well, all of them in reality). Even the much vaunted Dancing Donkeys slipped to the midfield when it was deemed more important to argue about your place on the monkey tree and the flavour of your lunchtime pizza than it was to pull together and get on with the job of producing race cars. (Who pulled them out of the 'cazzo'?... those three famous Italians Todt, Brawn and The Smegmeister). Group Lotus have purchased their place towards the front of the grid. They are sponsors not constructors. Waving the 'heritage' flag doesn't cut it for me, but I still wish them a degree of success for the few seasons they'll be associated with F1.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

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In practice, there is!

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Seems it will continue because of, what seems to me, bragging rights "Mines bigger than yours" etc etc.About time both parties told the truth and said "Wow! We didn't expect that! We lost some of our case!" instead of, once again, both claiming victory and making themselves look like knobs (once again!)

I know what you are saying but GL can't be happy that there is a "Team Lotus" edition of the caterham available. I don't think I would be. TF and Ansar Ali are talking about future Catherham cars as being "lightweight, as Colin Chapman intended". That to me is taking more than just the Team Lotus name. I know thats a bit off topic but I think its relevent in why TL are taking this as far as they have and will continue. Its not just F1, its the whole spin of what TF can do with the TL name. Let be honest Bahar is a marketing man and probably saw this coming.

No one is ever going to come out and say we lost, and it was inevitable they both said "we won!" - which both did in a way. And I reckon that was intentional.

Agreed it is damaging, stupid and money could be spent on better things but I can see why it is inevitble.

Edited by Nelly9000
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Full judgement here. some very interesting history of Lotus covered in the transcript of the judgement. Also looks like the agreement between Group Lotus and Team Lotus was a mess from very early on.

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