free hit
counters
Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan - Page 16 - Motorsport & Trackdays - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan


Recommended Posts

The objective of MJK with Evora was something like 2000 cars a year worlwide! Evora was never going to be the most visible car on the block!

Indeed. However it was always designed to be "sustainable" as the centre model in the line up with Elise/Exige being the high volume and Esprit being lower volume/higher margin.

However with the Elise/Exige virtually cancelled and no Esprit as yet its struggling as a stand alone model.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
  • Replies 576
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Indeed. However it was always designed to be "sustainable" as the centre model in the line up with Elise/Exige being the high volume and Esprit being lower volume/higher margin.

However with the Elise/Exige virtually cancelled and no Esprit as yet its struggling as a stand alone model.

That's why I did not understand the order in which DB decided to bring the 5 intent prototypes to market!

In my mind it was clear! Evora was already on sale, Esprit was next in line followed by next gen Elise!

That way you had the balanced line up that MJK wanted made of Three cars going head to head with Porsche!

Evora, Esprit and next Elise share almost everything under the metal other than the engine and even more with DB sourcing and manufacturing strategy!

Then they would have brought Elite and Eterne! it's so logical to do it this way that not doing it beats me!

Elise should remain top priority! Lotus could even go back to GM and ask to source the 1.6L of the Corsa VXR! it would not be a crime would it! But the silence around Elise is just scary! I remember the rumor around the Exige V6 at the arrival of DB! For me it was a bad idea for Exige and Evora to share the engine! Not that I consider that a V6 in Elise/Exige is wrong, just that this V6 should not be the one found in Evora!

That is not the only thing that scares me actually! By now we should be seeing an Esprit in Camo at the Nurburgring!

But no journalist has seen any, if they had we would have seen grainy pics which leads me to think that the development of the car is way behind schedule!

Not abnormal considering the engine melodrama!

Still I really hope to have product news by the next big show or before that!

Edited by NedaSay
Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect that the silence around the current range is because there is an extensive interim facelift planned soon. We knew this was coming for the Evora but the Elise is also to recieve improvements according to the following article:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/257460/

Link to post
Share on other sites

And rumour has it: there will be a "new" model in Goodwood. Well it's clear that DB soon has to do something, to shut all the critics. If he can, he will be praised by many, I think.

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Evora "facelift"....

Another "Lambotus," but I like it. :thumbup:

From the 06 January Autocar issue:

"Having faced criticism from some observers for merely trying to create a British Ferrari, Bahar said: 'Not at all – actually we’re trying to make a British Porsche',”

The British Porsche "facelift"...

(just kidding) :ice:

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect that the silence around the current range is because there is an extensive interim facelift planned soon. We knew this was coming for the Evora but the Elise is also to recieve improvements according to the following article:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/257460/

Well that's just :censored: sales... when is Goodwood? :ermm:

Edited by Stirling_Villeneuve

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Goodwood Moving Motor Show starts on the 30th of june! If Lotus Cars is to present any update to the cars this will be the best moment to do so! Especially if they bring the Evora Roadster! Hopefully They also bring a new supercharged Elise! I wonder what raft of modifications can be made to the Elise considering that the last body refresh was just last year! I guess it would be all about interior upgrades bringing it close to the new company specs! That would also mean making it heavier for the time being!

Just checked on Goodwood website Lotus is not listed as manufacturer at this year moving motor show! That would push things back to Frankfurt I guess in october!

Edited by NedaSay
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok that is a giant 1 for Team and 0 for Group! Team is building on what can only be described as a victory in court

TF announced yesterday a deal with Williams for the use of their windtunnel.

That announcement followed another involving Technology Partner DELL that created a platform for DELL innovative partners!

TF just announced a deal making GE a primary sponsor of Team Lotus.

The rumor has it that another two international companies are to join Team Lotus in the next few weeks.

Now I'd like to understand one thing eventhough Lotus Cars is only the top sponsor of Genii/Renault ; the Boy geniuses at Enstone and Hethel haven't been able to raise any other amount of significant sponsorship!

Then I have to wonder how one can pass on that kind of deal!

Link to post
Share on other sites

TF has passion and this cannot be replaced by any pretence.

When you form good genuine relationships ,people see the potential (and benefit at a reasonable price)

Well done Team Lotus

Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its great news but I wouldn't say its one in the face of GL as they are actually in the same place as Dell, being a sponsor not a Manufacturer. If anything its one in the face of Renault as they have possibly lost out on another top sponsor while courting one who is limited in budget (even if they don't understand it yet).

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its great news but I wouldn't say its one in the face of GL as they are actually in the same place as Dell, being a sponsor not a Manufacturer. If anything its one in the face of Renault as they have possibly lost out on another top sponsor while courting one who is limited in budget (even if they don't understand it yet).

That's true Tony, but isn't mr Bahar pretending and acting all the time, as if he is more a constructor and not a sponsor? I think it's impossible to deny that.

I know for sure that the Renaults of this year would have called "Lotus", if it wasn't for the legal threat and if Bahar got his way.

So in a way it's a bit "in their face" I feel, but I feel no joy.

Group Lotus should have accepted that Team Lotus = Lotus F1 and sponsor TF's team. Simple as can be.

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's little point in a car manufacturer spending millions on a team which will spend the next few years at the tail of the field. "Win on Sunday, buy on Monday" is the phrase - it's not "17th on Sunday, buy on Monday". Lotus would have been wasting money, they wanted to back a team which would get podiums and LRGP have done that, raises the companies profile to the general car buying public in the process.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I see what you're saying but in the long term there's far more kudos to being a bona-fide constructor, to be having seen to build a team up from scratch and make it a success. Isn't that in effect MB's strategy will Group Lotus?

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Did people think of Renault as Toleman last year? Lotus will eventually take over the team as Renault did and Benetton before them, they've bought into a winning team rather than a back marker and I'm sure the costs are similar too. What would you do?

There's already an awful lot of cross pollination between Group and the F1 team and this is growing and growing. They're not silly, I believe they've made the right decision.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's little point in a car manufacturer spending millions on a team which will spend the next few years at the tail of the field. "Win on Sunday, buy on Monday" is the phrase - it's not "17th on Sunday, buy on Monday". Lotus would have been wasting money, they wanted to back a team which would get podiums and LRGP have done that, raises the companies profile to the general car buying public in the process.

Until the commentators and pundidts, who do not currently seem to be expressing any interest in the squabble, regularly refer to the Group effort by the Lotus name, as opposed to the Renault name, I don't believe that there will be much 'halo' effect transferring to the car market especially as the crop of current buyers do not seem to pay any attention to heritage and pedigree, but I may be wrong.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

<br />

In practice, there is!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well they won't be a podium team unless they spend £100-200 million a year like the other top teams. Good luck to Mr Bahar finding the funds, if he does take it over.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bibs, I feel confident that the whole cost of the trial has "eaten" all benefit away already on financial level.

Don't you think it was a little early to start the F1 business, if you only have an Evora and a 1.6 Elise on sale?

I don't think the comparison with Renault is the same as this, as Renault was already supplying engines for some time. And Renault makes road cars for every one, where as Lotus makes sports cars and is known for their well advanced technologies and innovation. It's what made them made them so popular.

Instead of being a market leader, Lotus is becoming a follower; becoming one of the big pack of small sports cars producers, with "heavy" cars and big engines. The fact that Donato claims that Lotus is going back to aluminium bodies, gives a me very bad headache and leaves me with a "black to the future" feeling.

I feel no line behind the whole project and I don't see the point of putting loads of money in bottomless pits of (F1) racing. I can understand the LeMans project, with the Evora, but I don't understand why Lotus isn't doing this themselves, racing was once their core business... not spending money and let others race with their name on it.

For sure the LeMans result was not great at all, I can imagine that Lotus could easily achieve that themselves as well.

Edited by Exploded

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kimbers, you know they get money from the FIA and other sponsors, right?

Gert, as I understand it, Wolf Zimmermann is the leading light in the aluminium bodies. Can you see someone spending £120k on a fibreglass car with it's associated quality and perception issues?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Did people think of Renault as Toleman last year? Lotus will eventually take over the team as Renault did and Benetton before them, they've bought into a winning team rather than a back marker and I'm sure the costs are similar too. What would you do?

There's already an awful lot of cross pollination between Group and the F1 team and this is growing and growing. They're not silly, I believe they've made the right decision.

Right... but we're talking Renault here, a major manufacturer with a vast global budget, plus their strategy has always included engine placements with a number of top teams. I'd take a guess they get far more out of their Red Bull publicity than they do their own team. MB should eat some humble pie and strike a deal with Team Lotus... right now all we have is a confusing situation with the two teams which at the very least projects a very messy, not exactly the slick new revitalised image DB wanted to project to the world.

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's little point in a car manufacturer spending millions on a team which will spend the next few years at the tail of the field. "Win on Sunday, buy on Monday" is the phrase - it's not "17th on Sunday, buy on Monday". Lotus would have been wasting money, they wanted to back a team which would get podiums and LRGP have done that, raises the companies profile to the general car buying public in the process.

I just dont agree. Maybe if the Renault team won on Sunday people would go out and buy a Renault. For me seeing Team Lotus come in @ 17 does make me want to buy a lotus even more. Actually never really liking the Sevens too much but the latest one in the F1 colours really made me think woweee!! I want one.

Buddsy

Can you see someone spending £120k on a fibreglass car with it's associated quality and perception issues?

You think building your own engine from scratch will help that one?

Buddsy

Edited by Buddsy

 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes Bibbo I do know that. Please don't think I'm argueing over this just for the sake of argueing BUT........

Renault couldn't make the Team pay so sold it as a financial burden. Do you think Genii would be selling it if it was profitable??

Honda couldn't make it work, Spyker couldn't, BMW, Jaguar, Toyota (with their huge spending power) etc etc etc.

What makes you think that Lotus can?? I'm sorry but I just can't see it being anything but bragging rights and a burden on GL.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

...Actually never really liking the Sevens too much but the latest one in the F1 colours really made me think woweee!! I want one.

Buddsy

Ha.... I was thinking the same thing, maybe it's time for 'Team Lotus' Heritage paint job from Group Lotus? :thumbsup:

Edited by Stirling_Villeneuve

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I can't get excited about the current Team Lotus. Despite what their press office might churn out, they have nothing to do with any of the historical cars, nothing to do with Chapman and nothing to do with the manufacturer of my favourite marque. Might as well be promoting paper towels or caramel flavoured biscuits.

However, the black and gold cars have the same logo as i have on the front of my car. How cool is that?

Link to post
Share on other sites

dont call it fibreglass, call it composite, then it is a premium product again. TBH I doubt there are many people who could tell GRP from carbon fibre once you have laid 10 coats of paint over it.

Groups move into F1 would have been a very different story if they had Kubica in the driving seat. i cannot understand why Group is still a sponsor rather than shareholder in LRGP. But am not convinced that spending millions on an F1 team is VFM for Group, would have thought that they should be playing Fernandes' game of being an Asian player and getting sponsors who want in to that market

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...