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Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan - Page 17 - Motorsport & Trackdays - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan


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"Win on Sunday, buy on Monday" is the phrase - it's not "

I wonder how much it costs to "sponsor" the next James Bond film? Suspect having 007 running around in the next Esprit would be cheaper, more effective and longer lasting than sponsoring a F1 car. It certainly did not do the original Esprit any harm and when I think of Aston its still a silver birch DB5 that pops into my mind.

(Just checked and the amount that Lotus have agreed to spend sponsoring F1 over the next few years is more than the entire budget of making one of the films)

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Kimbers, you know they get money from the FIA and other sponsors, right?

Gert, as I understand it, Wolf Zimmermann is the leading light in the aluminium bodies. Can you see someone spending £120k on a fibreglass car with it's associated quality and perception issues?

Sorry if it is Zimmerman, the fact is that is going backwards, instead of forward. I'm just being nostalgic now but I'm sure Colin would have figured out a way and develop some new stuff to get better quality, if he found that necessary. Like Lamborghini did with the sesto elemento. Innovation was Lotus their big ace on the sleaves. Now I feel that is no longer the case, instead of think themselves the money and so is the knowledge is at other companies. It' s a disaster on long term.

But I'm open to be surprised at Goodwood in about 2 weeks time...

However, the black and gold cars have the same logo as i have on the front of my car. How cool is that?

People like my brother in law have the Fezza badge of their Fiat 500 and his Lancia Delta, you want to know how UNCOOL I think that is? Putting a Lotus badge on a Renault is disasterous! You should feel ashamed (as I am) , instead of acting proud, imho. Sh*t stays sh*t, even if you wrap it up nicely, if you know what I mean. Not that Lotus is shit.

At least Team Lotus does not need others to build a car, such SHOULD BE, and always HAS BEEN Lotus's core business. I do feel sad this is no longer the case. I'm sure even the factory staff of today, could do better or equal in LeMans, given time and the same money AND it would have created knowledge inside your own company!

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Who do you think did the Le Mans cars? They were built in Hethel Gert! It's there now being stripped down ready for Imola, Lotus mechanics have spanners on the car and engineers have huge and significant input, this is a Lotus project with Jetalliance as a partner, helping to run the team.

and... without wanting to constantly argue with you, recent advances in aluminium technology mean that ALL cars at these price points will be made with the material, without exception as far as I'm aware. Fibreglass no longer cuts the mustard, it's an old technology in comparison, look how carbon fibre has eclipsed it.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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You think building your own engine from scratch will help that one?

My Esprit has the 4 cyl engine and my uncle's had the V8 engine, which have both gone through a MUCH longer development period as the Lotus had until new Esprit production. Well if my uncle and I could choose now, to have an Esprit with a Toyota/Lexus engine instead, we would sign immediately for the NON-Lotus (read reliable) engine. None of us have the same engine in their car without rebuild. I know from 2 dealers that they have rebuilt EVERY V8 engine they ever sold + many others. Developing a car is peanuts compared to developing a reliable high output engine. It made me laugh that suggestions are that the engine creation and development could be paid from not developing the Elan (yet).

The only reason why Lotus wants Lotus engines is because they can not justify the high asking price for their new cars, and that's it.

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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Unfortunately I can't get excited about the current Team Lotus. Despite what their press office might churn out, they have nothing to do with any of the historical cars, nothing to do with Chapman and nothing to do with the manufacturer of my favourite marque. Might as well be promoting paper towels or caramel flavoured biscuits.

I do understand where you are comming from but to me a car designed from scratch and built here has much more Lotus feeling than a Renault car. I dont think any F1 car can be quite tha same as those that were produce mt Colin Chapman...they were part of him. I just feel TL has more of a Lotus feel about them

Also on the topic of engines how many opf those people who pay £150k for their cars know anything about whats under the bonnet? Maybe size? Maybe HP? You think many know where the oli goes? Or how to change a spark plug/cam belt? If the answer is yes youve sold to the wrong market!! lol

Buddsy

 

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People like my brother in law have the Fezza badge of their Fiat 500 and his Lancia Delta, you want to know how UNCOOL I think that is? Putting a Lotus badge on a Renault is disasterous! You should feel ashamed (as I am) , instead of acting proud, imho. Sh*t stays sh*t, even if you wrap it up nicely, if you know what I mean. Not that Lotus is shit.

At least Team Lotus does not need others to build a car, such SHOULD BE, and always HAS BEEN Lotus's core business. I do feel sad this is no longer the case. I'm sure even the factory staff of today, could do better or equal in LeMans, given time and the same money AND it would have created knowledge inside your own company!

So if shit remains shit, then that doesn't bode well for Team Lotus's prospects of grabbing any points this season.

The Lotus badge has been on a Vauxhall. It's been on a Ford. It's even been on a couple of Isuzus, including a 4x4. Were any of those considered a disaster? What's wrong with it going on a Forumla 1 car?

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But developing engines is what Lotus Engineering do.

Perhaps they should have helped with the 9** series engine then!! LMAO!!!

Buddsy :hrhr:

 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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It's not the 70's anymore...

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Hence someone trying to change that!

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Bibs, you know the Evora's were built in Austria, they could be in Hethel now, you know that better then I do. But they were built in Austria, as a good friend of mine visited their factory during the build-up. Whatever you say about that not being true, I know that you are wrong.

Fibre glass does not cut the mustard any more indeed, but going back to "enhanced" aluminum is not the future either. I suspected something new from Lotus. But maybe we (I?) have been spoiled over the times, with Lotus being one of the greatest market leaders in automotive innovation. (with Lotus bringing carbon and fibre glass into automotive) Maybe my pattern for expectation is just too high and all is better to do it like every one does. But if you a becoming average as every one, you soon are to be forgotten. I miss the thinking outside the box, as they did with the Elise chassis for example.

I don't see your reactions as argueing, to me it's a (open) discussion, 1 opinion + 1 opinion, mixed with views from other members, creates the best mix of viewing angles! After all we both share the same passion about Lotus, although we see it in different ways.

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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Please forgive me for being ignorant, but how, in any way, are the cars that Team Lotus run, a Lotus?

Haven't a bunch of guys just bolted some parts together and then called themselves Lotus Racing (by agreement - which they screwed up - agreement wise) now Team Lotus (which they simply bought)? How is that any different to GL buying their way into a team and then renaming it Lotus if they eventually own it?

I don't see it as confusing at all in F1 anymore. If I liken it to V8 supercars, there are a bunch of teams and guess what? they all run Holdens or Fords. Everyone knows who everyone is.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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So if shit remains shit, then that doesn't bode well for Team Lotus's prospects of grabbing any points this season.

The Lotus badge has been on a Vauxhall. It's been on a Ford. It's even been on a couple of Isuzus, including a 4x4. Were any of those considered a disaster? What's wrong with it going on a Forumla 1 car?

Idd it looks bad for Team Lotus, unless the blown diffusor gets scrapped and they can develop their cars in a better wind tunnel at Frank's.

The Lotus badge has indeed been on these cars but then Lotus have rebuild those cars almost entirely, their was LOADS of Lotus technology into these cars. At the current Renault F1 there is not even a single Lotus bolt on it, let alone technology.

That is again what I try to point out. If Lotus had built and developed that car in-house and even if it would have been slower than a HRT, I 'd still applaud it.

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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You are aware that this situation will change over the next couple of years? Or are you being as impatient as the people who continually moan that the new Paris cars haven't reached the secondhand market yet?

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Strangely enough I agree that Carbon Fibre would be the way to go with a "Supercar" (i.e. a car over £100k or so). It has very similar impact aspects as GFRP and has a better quality to it. However for the new Elise GFRP would be the way to go as they already have all the tooling, expertise etc, which would be the main part of the costs.

Aluminium in a Lotus doesn't have the same impact resistance (it crumples and traps the drivers) for which Lotus are so well reknowned.

You are right Bibs. In the 70's Lotus could do their own engines. Now its too costly and expensive.

Graham, Lotus are world renowned at developing other peoples already built engines. They don't build them from scratch (that snippet courtesy of an ex employee) and don't have the knowledge or designers. The only way, with their infrastructure, is to get someone else to design the block and them do what they do best which is develop that engine...... BUT that means that they are just putting someone elses engine in their cars and thats what you've been argueing against.

Of course they may not tell you it was designed in Germany, built in Austria and then developed and fitted in Norfolk....same way they didn't say the next Generation of Generic Italian Sports cars Lotus's would be built in Austria.

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They don't make doorhandles or headlights or even grow their own cows to supply the leather either. What's your point?

As for aluminium trapping the drivers - oh come on! Range Rovers are aluminuim and so are A8's and Jaguars. Don't see many reports of squished driver/trapped drivers in those.

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Unfortunately I can't get excited about the current Team Lotus. Despite what their press office might churn out, they have nothing to do with any of the historical cars, nothing to do with Chapman and nothing to do with the manufacturer of my favourite marque. Might as well be promoting paper towels or caramel flavoured biscuits.

However, the black and gold cars have the same logo as i have on the front of my car. How cool is that?

My feeling exactly Graham

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I'm glad you keep making my point for me. Range Rovers weigh in at 2 tons and are the furthest away you can get from a Sports car in the car industry.

So at what point do you stop calling a Lotus a Lotus? Maybe when its by name only because thats where were heading. Lotus IS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN a British Sports car maker. IMHO it stops being so when its physically built in Austria, designed in Italy and developed F*** knows where!! At least the component parts should be built in Britain and the cars should be in House developed and designed.

Think carefully what you are saying because you have just been argueing that Team Lotus don't make a Lotus car and more of that is designed built and developed in Norfolk and the UK than all of the "New range" put together.

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designed in Italy

Should I sell my Italian Esprit since it's not a Lotus then?

Oh, and wrt ali, you know coke cans are aluminium, and it's not the same as the ali they make cars out of. There are many types and Range Rovers use a very heavy gauge, I'm sure Lotus will look for something perhaps, lighter - inbetween the stuff used for cans and range rovers?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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He has an uncle called Giorgetto I'm sure!

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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In fairness Bibs, I think Kimbers is referring to the new range, yes?

But I do agree (as I work for one of the largest aluminium manufacturers in the world) there all sorts of grades of ali and even some very clever alloys that are incredibly strong.

Aluminium is not always aluminium.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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I think it is important to look at the volumes at which you write off a metal press and at which you write off a GRP mound (even the fancy injection moulds). I suspect there is a factor of 100 or 1000 between total production of a lotus variant and the expected pressings for a motor wing.

Look how many Evoras are produced before the new nose that will be here within the year, then think of press costs

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