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Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan - Page 20 - Motorsport & Trackdays - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan


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I also suggested that maybe Lotus could do something with Cosworth engines in Dany Bahar - 3 Questions

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Mind you, I doubt I could afford a Cosworth piston let alone a whole car that had a Cosworth engine in it. :(

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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the lotus fan base has never used its mind as a collective with one view of the company, its history with ACBC, team lotus or any other Lotus car thingy. We have never been borg like in this respect. I know people who love the esprit but think many of the other lotus cars are crap. They dont buy into the rose tinted past about how a modern lotus should be. If I had the cash to buy a new lotus i would want it to a) look right b) drive the way I expect it too and c) not break down. I don't really give a monkeys about DNA or the blood line of a car. By all accounts the evora is a superb car to drive but I just dont like it, Chapman could be alive today making it with his own hands and I would still think its styling is out of date. The engine could be german , english or dutch for all i care it makes no difference if the cars looks don't provoke the emotions i wish to feel. DB is making a new esprit for certain (and maybe some additional new models) some people like them, some dont, that one wont surprise him one jot. If he doesn't sell the new models well he will have failed; he shifts them out of dealers like hot cakes he will have done his job.

So some Malaysian millionaire buys the rights to stick some letters on an F1 car and has some dusty old blue prints and rusting cars in a shed in Norfolk. Its doesnt make him anything do with that history. It doesn't magically transfer any special powers or abilities to his F1 team. If I bough all the rights to own and distribute rocco siffri movies would that make my manhood perform better :shock: or be thought of as having some porno history?? no it would wouldnt, it would just make me a porno collector. A retarded chimp could buy the team lotus rights next week from TF, would that give the chimp F1 credibility, no he is still a chimp with no F1 experience.

Its fascinating that this thread has run for so long, i also find it weird that some fans of lotus cars seem desperate to make a tangible connection from a current F1 team to one of the distant past as if by some magic :sorcerer: it makes their current team either better, or more bizarrely some how more legit.

Now where is that lady that needs the Rocco treatment from my new labeled, historically powered wang. :smoke:

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Now where is that lady that needs the Rocco treatment from my new labeled, historically powered wang.
:rofl:

She's round at my place and has no intention of moving anywhere else....

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

<br />

In practice, there is!

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So some Malaysian millionaire buys the rights to stick some letters on an F1 car and has some dusty old blue prints and rusting cars in a shed in Norfolk. Its doesnt make him anything do with that history. It doesn't magically transfer any special powers or abilities to his F1 team. If I bough all the rights to own and distribute rocco siffri movies would that make my manhood perform better :shock: or be thought of as having some porno history?? no it would wouldnt, it would just make me a porno collector. A retarded chimp could buy the team lotus rights next week from TF, would that give the chimp F1 credibility, no he is still a chimp with no F1 experience.

I doubt you would be saying that if it was GL that bought TL. They wouldn't have any special powers or abilities. Tony Fernandes has had more experience is running a F1 in the year and a half that his team have been arround compared to Group Lotus who have never had a F1 team of their own.

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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So some Malaysian millionaire buys the rights to stick some letters on an F1 car and has some dusty old blue prints and rusting cars in a shed in Norfolk. Its doesnt make him anything do with that history. It doesn't magically transfer any special powers or abilities to his F1 team.

If the Ford Motor Company was sold to the Chinese today and moved to China, they have the rights to manufacture and call them Fords. In the case of TF: at least he valued the name enough to buy it as Group Lotus were given the opportunity and passed. He now legally owns the rights to the Team Lotus name and can do with it what he pleases. He's developing and manufacturing the current Team Lotus F1 chassis (as opposed to DB putting decals on a Renault). The knowing F1 public knows better than to think the very same people that made the Type 79 F1 car are now making the current cars. (As Colin Chapman is not running Team Lotus, Bruce McLaren is not running Vodafone McLaren Mercedes and for example read the wikki on McLaren as an example of how ownership, managers, chassis designers and drivers are changing all the time. (It's a bit like the old "grandfather's axe" for most teams: The handle has been replaced 3 times and the head twice, but it's still my grandfather's axe.)

So choose your historical timeline period to follow and favor.

Edited by comem47
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He now legally owns the rights to the Team Lotus name and can do with it what he pleases.

He can't, that was the outcome of the court case we're discussing in this thread. He can use it in F1 but not on hotels, planes, dressing gowns etc as he had planned.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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He can't, that was the outcome of the court case we're discussing in this thread. He can use it in F1 but not on hotels, planes, dressing gowns etc as he had planned.

TBH, I do not think he was planning on using all of those, I think it was more of a brand protection exercise than anything else.

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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Oh, ok. I do think it's illegal to set up frivolous companies in the UK though Antony.

Tell me more about 'brand protection' and how setting up Team Lotus Hotels Ltd, Team Lotus Jets Ltd, Team Lotus Merchandising Ltd help with this and how this makes his 'brand' better protected than under the Team Lotus company that he purchased from David Hunt? Limited Companies don't protect trademarks and copyrights, trademarks and copyrights do.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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He can't, that was the outcome of the court case we're discussing in this thread. He can use it in F1 but not on hotels, planes, dressing gowns etc as he had planned.

Bibs, I think you know the context, I hardly think TF ultimate goal in getting into F1 was to market Lotus T shirts. :wallbash:

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He did set up a company called 'Team Lotus Merchandising Ltd'.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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He did set up a company called 'Team Lotus Merchandising Ltd'.

But that is merely an extension, not the primary mission. He took a highly recognized name in racing he admired and chose to resurrect it by purchase and go racing.

Something that Group passed on. As I mentioned: read about other names in F1 that got bought and sold along the way (he's not the first to do do. )

He knew the name's worth for attention factor (and admired it) and paid for it (sorry DB you're too late). I gotta thank DB for pissing TF off though. I think the Caterham deal is good stuff for sports car enthusiasts.

Just curious, between TF and DB, who do you think ACBC would like/dislike the most? :devil:

Edited by comem47
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I doubt you would be saying that if it was GL that bought TL. They wouldn't have any special powers or abilities. Tony Fernandes has had more experience is running a F1 in the year and a half that his team have been arround compared to Group Lotus who have never had a F1 team of their own.

I would say the same thing, if DB hired 20 new designers and mechanics and stuck team lotus on the front i would regard him as any other new team in F1. ie nothing special until they prove it with results on the track. He could start up team marmite for all I care, my point is just because you own a name does not = what went before, you earn that right over time to be compared in the same sentence.. His new team is merely badged with a historical reference.

He's developing and manufacturing the current Team Lotus F1 chassis (as opposed to DB putting decals on a Renault).

Nope TF is developing a F1 chassis which he happens to call Team Lotus, if a bilionaire offered him 500 million quid to dump Team Lotus for Team Lots of Money he would. All he did was buy a badge to give his outfit some Kudos. He has used the name to garner sponsor ship because people get dewy eyed over the name.

If he could milk the Name Team Lotus for everything its worth from Lunch boxes to T-shirts he would. Hes a business man. As the courts said he can only use for F1. I bet in 10 years team he will have no connection with Team Lotus and will still have an F1 team.

Oh and Group lotus have been building cars which hammer round race tracks all over the world for years now so the collective "how to build a race car experience in the factory" way exceeds TFs team. It just happens to not be in F1.

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Have to agree with Bibs. TF is a businessman. He has (oops, had) no intention of stopping with just F1. He even had Team Lotus Bicycles (ding, ding). F1 was the way to go 'Look at me (oops Lotus Racing), look at me (oops Lotus Racing)' except he buggered that up by breaching the contract.

He could just as easily have called himself Team Air Asia and made his own history. No. He grabbed a name with racing heritage and used that under agreement (which he broke according to the court). And correct me if I'm wrong, BEFORE talking to David Hunt. That gave him the opportunity (or so he thought) to have another crack at making money off the name. Now buy the shirt and the bike and the jet and stay in my hotels and then when I bring out a credit card, pay me for the right to be able to pay me so you can stay in my hotel.

I don't believe this is about 'I've got a lot of money, let's race cars.'

More 'I've got a lot of money, now how can I make a motza more?'

No I'm too harsh. He's in it for the love of the sport. :getmecoat:

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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It may not be such a good idea modeling your business plan onAston-Martin

Not a good idea, I looked into the Vantage recently and chatted with a few Aston owners.... just be thankful for Lotus dealers! :innocent:

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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of course you do know how to make a million in Formula 1 ? .............................................................throw 100 million at it ,ha ha

TF would only do this because it is a passion,it is extremely high risk on his part,go figure

Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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But that is merely an extension, not the primary mission. He took a highly recognized name in racing he admired and chose to resurrect it by purchase and go racing.

Something that Group passed on. As I mentioned: read about other names in F1 that got bought and sold along the way (he's not the first to do do. )

He knew the name's worth for attention factor (and admired it) and paid for it (sorry DB you're too late). I gotta thank DB for pissing TF off though. I think the Caterham deal is good stuff for sports car enthusiasts.

Just curious, between TF and DB, who do you think ACBC would like/dislike the most? :devil:

Funny you should mention that , I was thinking about the very same thing the other day.

From what I have been told CC didnt have many friends, and he only really respected people he had a use for who could deliver, i.e. solve problems that could make him money, or failing that at least make him look good.

As Dany Bahar comes across as an I love me who do you love, slimy ponce who is all mouth and no trousers , I doubt they would get on, he addmittedly knows less than nothing about automotive and engineering matters so there wouldnt really be any common ground between them, but saying that maybe he could have hooked CC up with some blond celebrity /actress tarts through his showbiz connections though?

Tony Fernandes seems to be more grounded and is something of a self made businessman grafter/wheeler dealer type with a genuine love of F1 and flying so I think he would present the lesser of two evils.:lol:

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A huge percentage of this exceedingly long (but nonetheless fascinating--certainly educational) thread seems to be focused on a search for the Holy Grail of historical continuity of the glory days of Lotus F1 triumphs with the present day effort(s) to create same. I submit that this understandable desire is, to a large extent, a fool's errand ending in an entirely unsatisfactory outcome. Make no mistake, having the marque return to F1 is an honorable challenge. But it will have to be done on its own contemporary merits, sans the previous brilliance of Saint Chapman and the heroics of a different era. The sought after links between the two endeavours are tenuous at best, and perhaps non extant to some.

So where does that leave us? Our current choices are also substantially less than100% satisfactory, regardless of which side of the debate one's personal opinions fall. It is very nearly an automotive Hobson's choice. In a perfect world the two parties would bury the hatchet and join their considerable forces and talents to produce a welcome synergy, the sum of the parts being far greater than the whole. If only.

And so we all, fans and combatants alike (is their a difference?), muddle along, hoping for the miracle that will not happen. Depressing in the exteme at times, a vexing thorn in the side that refuses to go away. The marque continues to publicly suffer unnecessarily while ill will rules the day. It's enough to drive one to drink, or at least wander down to the local pub in search of diversion, whilst waiting for the passage of time and ongoing legal machinations to inadequately resolve the issue one way or the other. Where's a good White Knight when you need him?

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Agreed.... Gotham needs a hero! :shuriken:

It's got one... Bratman!

I'm just not sure who's wearing the cape though as there seem to be two contenders for the role.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

<br />

In practice, there is!

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It's got one... Bratman!

I'm just not sure who's wearing the cape though as there seem to be two contenders for the role.

Either way the new Esprit looks cool but a little heavy...

Batmobil.jpg

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Either way the new Esprit looks cool but a little heavy...

Maybe we can attach a zeppelin to it to "add lightness". It certainly doesn't look like a Lambo spinoff though!!! :cheers:

(then again Lambo still makes tractors, oh dear!!!)

Edited by comem47
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http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/6878/

I really think it is a great shame Tony Fernandes plan to buy Lotus seems to have stalled. We can only hope he still wants it when Bahar fails, and Lotus as we know it ends up like TVR, Jenson etc etc.

Amazing that so many people have bought in to Bahars vision.......mind you a promo jolly to Lotus a few months back seems to have brainwashed a few people...eh Bibs?

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