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Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan - Page 5 - Motorsport & Trackdays - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Lotus vs Lotus legal actions starts Mon. 24.Jan


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For anyone caring to read what was actually said by all parties, a transcript is available here:

http://paultan.org/2011/01/26/what-really-happened-at-the-lotus-vs-lotus-hearing/

Found the last exchange quite amusing, with the reference to football cards and all.

Another interesting bit is that TL is planning to add a claim to deny GL using the black and gold colours.

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^ That's very funny, like the script of a costume drama! I'm going to take my press card and attend the trial, should be fun! :D

Tony Fernandes recently tried to copyright green & yellow on a racecar too, he seemed to deny it and backpedal when he was found out though!

http://www.ipo.gov.u...ademark=2561143

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That courtroom transcript is hilarious.

Gotta say, I like the judges attitude:

"That is a very important provision. My experience over the years has been that that stops people taking silly stances because they come in front of me and I shout at them."

What was going on at the end about names?

Sounded like a monty python sketch

"no we're not", "we're not?" "yes" "you are" "yes" :)

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I see TF's also submitted applications for an ACBC Team Lotus logo and in the Team Lotus name for a whole range of products, including luggage, bags etc. surely this will have an impact on Clive Chapmans Historic team marketing, product range etc.

The transcript certainly makes it sound as though Group Lotus is being amenable/helpful whilst 1MRT is the "naughty boy" that's being told they really ought to do this, that & the other, and can't come up with any acceptable excuses!

Doesn't mean it'll go Group Lotus' way though.

Hooligan at heart.

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Too bad Leo Mckern is now deceased. He could have had one more case: "Rumpole and the case of the 2 Loti" and one can see the humor unfolding already.

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Like the judge's prod, "That (the trial) of course, also assumes that the parties do not become sensible in the meantime and negotiate a settlement. Speedy trials concentrate people’s minds in that regard as well."

and GL's QC comment further on, "We have thought about settlement and we are thinking about it".

Obvious the judge doesn't care too much, a good thing, for F1 when he seemed amazed there would be two teams with the Lotus name competing this year.

DanR

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Yes, that was a bit of a surprise, given his near complete understanding of the details thus far. He seems, on balance, to be a quick study, and I've no doubts whatsoever that he is fully capable of absorbing the firehose of information that is/will be coming his way.

I also found myself, at this point at least, developing a vestigial respect for the lawyers involved--a rare thing for me. They both seem to be (as might be expected at this level of contention) on top of their game. It appears, at this early stage, that it will be a fair fight with a fair referee.

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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The transcript certainly makes it sound as though Group Lotus is being amenable/helpful whilst 1MRT is the "naughty boy" that's being told they really ought to do this, that & the other, and can't come up with any acceptable excuses!

Doesn't mean it'll go Group Lotus' way though.

Does read a bit like that, but remember there was one UK based Plaintiff and four defendants, some of whome are based on the other side of the world; and all of the contemporary witnesses will be UK based and (except David Hunt) will have a natural allegence with Lotus / Clive Chapman.

I think it was a drop of sandbagging as they did not have clear instruction

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I see TF's also submitted applications for an ACBC Team Lotus logo and in the Team Lotus name for a whole range of products, including luggage, bags etc. surely this will have an impact on Clive Chapmans Historic team marketing, product range etc.

Would that be possible?, F1Malaysia using the Lotus brand in any other area than F1.

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You're starting to see the facts of the matter now.

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It's a green and yellow badge with the ACBC monogram on, it's referred to legally as 'passing off'.

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Just think that Team Lotus , on instruction/recommendation of their solicitors were led to believe that this would take months,if not years to get to trial............so I still believe that this can be settled out of court.

ON THE FLIPSIDE AS TO WHO IS CORRECT ;

Whilst Group Lotus believe in the course of action and the new T127 is an attempt to look like the JPS of old (bear in mind that the cash is not exactly flowing out the Proton coffers)

a.Who in their right mind will put ads on the JPS colour car (talking major sponshorship and corporate colour) unless these are your colours and you want to ........only Donald Trump comes to mind.

b.Who came up with re-inventing the colour scheme - Tony Fernandes ,not DB marketing guru(as we are led to believe.

c.Team Lotus are spending oodles on F1 .Group Lotus are rather collecting sponsors to spend.

The nett result should be .....Let TF and co do the F1 racing ,DB inc do the road cars .Agree to disagree but the spinoff would be mind boggling .The road car can certainly get mileage (technology ) from the Team Lotus expenditure and Tony Fernandes ,with suspensive conditions in place , can create a profitable team .

My personal opinion ,TF has a passion for F1 and business - great cocktail.

DB can do well with 5 new cars - a mammoth task to fulfill so stick to that.

WE ARE THEN ALL WINNERS !

Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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Richard

Also take into account that the only Manufacturers to have been successful and a constructor in both F1 and in Road cars (We're not talking 100 Mclarens here but numbers in thousands) is Ferrari...who are virtually 100 % owned by Fiat that in turn is virtually 100% backed by the state....Not like Proton where money is tight and the state owns a part of the company.

Look at the manufacturers who have fallen by the wayside trying to do both: Lamborghini, Spyker, Honda, Toyota, Jaguar, Alfa (also owned by Fiat now), BMW. Include 30 years ago plus and you can add in Porsche, Bugatti, Talbot, Vanwall, De Tomaso, Matra, Maserati, Lancia, Cooper, Aston Martin.

Even those still in, Mercedes and Renault, aren't actually successful per-se.

My worry here is that Lotus split their resources to get into F1 and end up like 90% of car manufacturers.

I wish they would go back to backing an F1 constructor and concentrate their monies on what Lotus have always done best. Innovation and road cars. If Honda and Toyota haven't made it work with massive £400 million a year then................

I asked MJK years ago, why Lotus hadn't got back into F1, when he was back at Group and he stated "Can't afford it and don't want to have to use development money for something that isn't core to our business"....but he also added that he would have loved to have been back in F1 in one way or another as the name Lotus is synonymous with F1. Surely that's what Lotus had with TF didn't they? An inexpensive way to be associated with F1 and gain benefits of being there!

Come on guys. Get it together!....(but too late me thinks). Instead Lotus will spend tens of millions more to back a French team that everyone knows to be Renault, instead of a Malay/UK team that have tried to set themselves up as Lotus branded from day 1!!

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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a French team

Gert, they've always been based in Enstone in Oxfordshire. They're as English as afternoon tea.

From a nationalistic view (which I'm not sure anyone really cares about), Team Lotus is the name of 1Malaysia Racing Team who have previous expressed an interest in being based eventually in Sepang, are 50% Malaysia staffed and 100% Malaysian owned. It's a legal requirement in interviews to refer to them as an Anglo-Asian outfit but they're a lot less English than 'the others'.

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They may be Anglo Malay but they are based in Norfolk and have only ever been called Lotus. I think thats why Gert calls them Renault...who have been Renault for many years.

I would also say most Uk residents would support a company that is British Malay over a French team.

I think there are lots of people that care about a teams nationality. I support all the British teams (some more than others obviously).

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Hey Bibs. I did make note of that in my post. While Enstone is in the UK it’s not Norfolk like Lotus Racing though, the home of Lotus. Also it is Renault, clearly. I was talking about branding. Surely “Lotus” not “Lotus Renault” is what they should be called if they are purely Lotus....But Renault wouldn’t stand for that because they see Lotus as a sponsor not as a Constructor and ultimately it still the same team that raced as Renault last year. Lotus Racing have only ever raced as Lotus Racing.

Also you say who cares about Nationality? Well I would think Colin Chapman would have. Peter Warr. Mike Kimberley. Tony Rudd. Real Lotus supporters who are British? To name a few.

It should also be noted that Lotus are owned by a purely Malay company so does it matter that “Lotus Racing” are?

My point was more about the point that so many constructors have thrown millions into F1 and if Lotus really wanted to be visible and spend as little as possible then why split with TF?

I think it is because of 1 mans “run before you can walk” attitude.

Edited by Exploded

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So, just as an example, how would we feel if Tony Fernandes lost the case and they were called AirAsia Racing and how would we feel if they then moved to Malaysia?

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In 1985 /1986 did Ayrton Senna not drive a JPS Team Lotus powered by who ? Renault of course !

Yes it was called a Lotus/ Renault as in chassis/engine .. The current car by Group Lotus is Renault/Renault with Lotus sponsorship, but the TEAM Lotus car will be Lotus/Renault as in the past.

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My point was more about the point that so many constructors have thrown millions into F1 and if Lotus really wanted to be visible and spend as little as possible then why split with TF?

I think it is because of 1 mans “run before you can walk” attitude.

Fun as it is to see this as a personal Fernandes v Bahar fight, I don't think it has that much to do with Bahar, who couldn't do anything (such as sponsor an F1 team) if Proton didn't want to do (or pay for) it. I still think Genii's financial involvement with Proton/Lotus may turn out to be the main factor in the ending of the Lotus Racing license and the sponsorship of Genii's F1 team. I don't think Proton/Lotus had a real problem with Lotus Racing's behaviour or performance, despite various inconsistent remarks to that effect, they just happened not to fit a new strategy, and Proton/Lotus wanted them out of the way. Whether Proton/Lotus were entitled to terminate the license, we'll have to see what that courts decide. Unless, as seems a possibility, Proton have to admit defeat in raising the funds for Lotus' grand future growth plans before the court case, when everything would unravel quite quickly I imagine - perhaps that was one reason Team Lotus wanted the case put off as long as possible!

Gerard Lopez interview: http://paultan.org/2...ia-racing-team/

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Once again Mr. Lopez is quick to point out the current (changed) opinion of the Chapman family, but makes no mention how they sold the team to Peter Collins and Peter Wright.

(let's not confuse the issue with the facts!!! ) devil.gif

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