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Artie

What would you do?

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There has been a lot of work on the effects of thermal barrier coatings on pistons (quite a lot of this on diesel engines for the US Army) and if you look at the thermal analysis results on the temperature distribution through the piston you can see how much of an effect they can have. Most of the heat a piston absorbs is from the combustion charge and it is dissipated through the walls. The thickness of the coating influences the reduction in the temperature of the piston so if the coating is thin enough it may not have an effect on clearances.

I know you have spent a lot of time, effort and money with your build and it must be incredibly disheartening and frustrating to have the failures. I only hope the issue is found and you can get back to enjoying the car.

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Well Mates, I'm back! I just got back from visiting my engine builder and have some bad news and some good news!

First the bad news: The engine has to be completely disassembled! The liners are .002" too low in the block on cylinder 2, 3 and 4! The block will need machining to get it within specification. This most certainly should have been realized 2 years ago when they initially put the engine together! The fact that they didn't irritates me!!!!! HOWEVER, the components were all working correctly and there is no damage to anything in the engine except the head gasket which popped on the 1 oclock position on cylinder 2 and 4 respectively. The engine will be completely disassembled tomorrow and they will bring it to a local engine machine shop that also did my cylinder head, to have the block machined to bring the liners up to specification!

The good news: We found a definitive reason for the repeated failures, and am glad to say it was also realized by the shops owner, that it was their miss on this problem so my cost is only going to be the parts(which I already have, gasket, water pump, belts, and timing belt/tensioner bearing) and the machining, which should be a few hundred dollars! I was very pleased that they brought it to my attention and they admitted the oversight forthright and didn't try to hide/blame it on me! I should be back on the road in several weeks! :animier::baby::bounce:

Edited by Artie

89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Andy! So true, I'm no engineer, but I rarely make assumptions, hehe! I prefer hunches too. I am ecstatic to be on the "road" to recovery here, and will post up progress very soon I hope! :detective:

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Engine is stripped, they are sending to the machine shop today! Hoping to get the garage space cleaned up of spare 300ZX parts now to make room for the reinstallation on the engine! Progress! Finally!


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Glad you found the source of the problem. It's admirable of the machine shop to admit their error and undertake the rectification at partly their own cost.

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Good result :thumbsup:


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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I completely agree! This was truly a case of "you'll get more bee's with honey than vinegar". I asked him why it was off and he flat out said that they must have overlooked it! Thank goodness there was no damage to anything inteernally as a result. I have new ARP head studs to put in her and also a refurbed water pump that I have to thank Jeff agaian, at JAE for refurbing my old new one for free! To include return shipping!


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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i sure hope so Travis! This has been the most frustrating project I've ever worked on! But will be well worth the reward!


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Alrighty Mates!!!! I got to the shop this morning and got some more good news! The block has been machined and the liners are all within specification and nipped properly! Tomorrow the engine reassembly commences in earnest. The tentative return of my engine into my possession is next week late, possibly Thursday or Friday! I'm having ANOTHER new timng belt and tensioner put on(those following along know that's the 3rd timing belt in 3 years!) and also had the water pump rebuilt once again from JAE just to ensure it doesn't leak after sitting for another year! I'll take more pictures, well, you can follow the old thread somewhere, since I've documented this engine install 2 other times now. HOPEFULLY, this will be the last time I have to take the engine out for this bloody head gasket failure! I have to say, as frustrated as I was through the process, I'm very excited and elated that I kept the car and am very enthused about many good, fun miles ahead! Thanks for talking me down from the ledge a few months back!

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Art,

Chuffed for you mate that this has finally been resolved, Hope it all goes back together smoothly and that your back behind the wheel soon thinking to yourself what all the fuss was about with a big smile on your face :w00t:

Regards danny


A

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Danny!

Am sure that is exactly what I'll be thinking! I have cleaned everything and painted what needs freshening up! I'll be posting pics of progress hopefully by this weekend!


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Artie,

I am so pleased you have found a reason for your head gasket problems , frustrating that it should not of happened in the first place but credible they admitted their error..

Dave

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Com'on Artie I want to hear than engine again, along with that nice neat exhaust "silencer" you made. :w00t:


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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Woot Woot! No kidding Dave, they've been very cool about it and I saw the machined block on Friday morning, pistons swinging in the freshly installed liners. Monday they are scheduled to install the new ARP head studs and final assembly of the camshaft towers. I cleaned up some more of the engine bay and finally got my SE sills painted and soon to go on the car once I get the engine in and running smoothly! I've been told that the engine will be completed and ready for transport by mid week! I may have to take a vacation day in the next couple of weeks and get her bolted together so I can show some progress! This has been a long and trying process, hoping that this will be the final assembly for a long time! I'm tired of seeing my lovely beauty sitting with dust and no hatch! And rest assured Rog, I'll post up a video of her running again with her "silencer" all polished up!

Cheers!

Artie

SE sill, painted finally!

post-1055-0-76841800-1312773133.jpg

Edited by Artie

89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Well, the days are ticking by as I anxiously await the engine to return, SO, I have decided to finish up some odd things and details I haven't done thus far. In order to flow the most air into the engine, I decided to gasket match the intake manifold to match the port job I had done on the head side of things a few years back. The stock intake manifold is perfectly gasket matched on the throttle body side, however, there is about 1.2 to 1.4mm of material that can be removed on the head side so I decided to do that tonight. Here are the pics. I also radiused the exit slightly to help flow over the gasket and into the head. This may seem like a trivial thing, but there is a reason that racing bodies use restrictor plates to reduce horsepower, and that theory sticking in my head, 2 or 5 HP seems worth my effort here. The chargecooler, plenum nozzle and nozzle have all received this treatment several years ago, but this completes the inlet tract. I'll be pushing for maximum power/flow once the engine is back in the car, so I don't want to leave anything to chance! And YES, I will be cleaning out the shavings and smoothing the rough edges to smooth out the flow nicely!

Fresh Port and gasket opening:

post-1055-0-80166200-1312866666.jpg

post-1055-0-74006900-1312866683.jpg

post-1055-0-72959800-1312866703.jpg

post-1055-0-62673300-1312866734.jpg

post-1055-0-29902800-1312866766.jpg

post-1055-0-44334900-1312866777.jpg

Edited by Artie

89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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I know quite a few performance guys here in SA ....very often they make specific gaskets up when running either Nos or extra boost as there is a limit to which the gasket can perform and i have a suspicion that 1.1 bar boost ,combined with heat would require a better racing specced gasket.ie copper/gasket/copper .

If you want me to chat to the guys and get more info...let me know.

Glad you keeping "the car we all hate and love so much"

ps....there is an alternative that i have been exploring .Lexus V8 with Audi box upside down.FOOD FOR THOUGHT


Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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Richard,

Thanks for the thoughts, but it's not the gasket that I'm worried about, as much as a restriction in flow from the casting of the manifold not opened up as far as the gasket. The material in the gasket should hold fine, I'm not looking to race the car or make 2 or 3 bar of boost that would blow the gasket out. In my FD3S, I ported the intake manifolds, and the exhaust housings on the turbo and I saw a tremendous increase in turbo performance, actually, so much increase that I needed to make an exhaust restriction to keep the turbo from creeping too high! I'm just looking to maximise the flow into the engine and hopefully cure my boost drop off issue that I was having with the T04E turbo I run. Also, I have seen a few iterations of the V8 swap in to this chassis, which is cool, is not something I'm considering, as I have dropped nearly $20KUSD in the engine I have! But thanks!

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Artie.

Don't worry about the gasket , mine goes to 1.5 bar all the time . no problem..

I am concerned about your manifold ports, you will need to work them a lot more than that.. From your statement early on in my 412 bhp thread in Esprit chat , i thought you had done all the porting.. And either you or Lucas asked about the details on getting 400+ bhp .. well , if as it seems your ports are not flowed or matched then this is one area why you are falling short... Have another read of the paper on latter part of page 6 and beginning of page 7 in said thread, it explains what i did to get the best from the system we have.. If you can get your flow volume efficiency up you will not need so much boost to gain power... High boost with high velocity and poor volume will work against you and just create a tonne of heat.. with added lag and unbalanced torque / power ratio...

I know this flow work is a pain in the ass and takes time but without it all the other trick bits are wasted....Its easy to chip it and boost it. but that won't give you the best results..and may just change the feel characteristics without much power gain .

I really would like to see you achieve smooth derivable 400+bhp , but to do it you will need to do the maths and work the flow efficiency to start with..

Hope you take this in the helpful way it is intended and not as a critism

All the best

Dave

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Dave, no criticism taken! I am very familiar with the need to port and flow everywhere air moves to maximise the efficiency of the system and a small restriction will choke all the trick bits I've added. The head has been ported and massaged by a local race shop that does lots of work on SCCA champ series cars. I also had them do a nice valve job to help flow around the valves in to the cylinders. I never was good in math, so I won't advertise that I am, but with the head work and block machine work and the increase in pinch area now, we should be able to hold the head on the engine. I previously made 318Hp at the wheels with 1.0 bar of boost on the stock engine and my current turbo. That equates to about 373 hp at the crankshaft on the old tired motor and no porting etc. I now have a fresh engine, much better flowing head, better chargecooler capacity, as well as better chip from WC engineering and more fuel, in addition, a custom inlet camshaftl. I don't see it as a far stretch to get 27 more hp with these new variables. The ports are all matched now and the dimensions and the fuel system are up to task. The only thing I could add would be to smooth the casting inside the intake runners and add a spacer to the plenum, which, no one here offers, nor thinks is necessary. I appreciate your very well educated and tested methods. I'm impressed with the results, and I don't think I'm that far off. I haven't missed many, if any details. If I fall short, then I will increase the efficiency with a better BB turbo with a more efficient compressor design, but my turbo is a pretty efficient T04E which at 18psi is at 78%, which is pretty good, and not producing too much heat as a stock turbo would easily run past 90% at 16psi. I'll be starting the reinstallation in earnest this weekend and will post regular updates to my progress. Thanks again Dave! I'm ready to get her back on the road again! If I hit over 350 to 360hp to the wheels I'll be perfectly happy with that!

Edited by Artie

89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Artie,

That all sounds really good now and well under way,

Always remember its all the little things that add up to give the final balanced result. and its the little thing that take the time and people say are not necessary...(research / calculation are two of them). I did them and got the results..!!!

I also noticed you have a greater starting power point than i had. i think our chips may have differed , I found that all the engineering only gave its true benefits once the ECU and fuel were set up properly... That was the real key... and a very expensive one in my case..$11500.. If you can get the result you want and happy with the drive-ability , using the stock ECU chipped that would be great.... The stand alone unit i have is awesome but it was not easy to install into the SE set up but the results speak for themselves...Was it worth the cost..?..(still testing)

Thankyou for sharing your info , i look forward to reading the next stage..

Dave

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I agree with you 100% Dave! The expense ratio to performance gained is a tough one to get right. I am looking into a stand alone system that is reasonable. I never intended to have so much wrapped up in this car! I didn't mind spending the $12K or so for the engine build as it was necessary but that on top of 3 R and R's later along with associated gaskets and the shop charges for those things has nearly eclipsed the $20K mark total for the engine, along with the previous years respray and body work at almost $10K, I am at a point where I want the car to run and be reliable so I can enjoy it. I have inquired about getting hold of the bin file so I can tune the GM ECU, which is very tunable if you have that file, but it seems that file is more protected than the White House! Alas, I will post progress and updates with pics, hopefully starting tomorrow! Cheers, and thanks for the tips, I've definitely used some of your work for my benefit!

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Okay, picked up the engine Friday. Spent a good portion of Friday evening bolting things on and cleaning some more things up. I've gotten the engine nearly ready to install. Forgot that I cut the AC belt last time so I need to go get one tomorrow. I need to install the vacuum pump and belt, then she will be ready to drop in!

post-1055-0-13176500-1313377318.jpg

post-1055-0-02551200-1313377335.jpg


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Artie,

Glad to hear you are making progress again after getting the nip issue resolved and am looking forward to seeing the positive results on the road soon! :thumbup:

Out of curiosity, what sealant did your builder use on the liners?

Jim


1995 S4s

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