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Tony.

Pop ups died for the simple reason that they are now illegal in Europe. EU laws changed some years ago as they believe they break lemming pedestrian's legs.

It's law...

Thats it!

(Unless of course they don't want to sell in Europe - in which case they can do what they like! :rolleyes: )

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Sorry, I'm giving an American perspective, not looking at the bigger picture; I was thinking about American cars when I wrote that!

There was a lot of talk before the new Corvette debuted, and many Corvette fans were dismayed when news leaked that the new car would not have pop-up lamps. They cited GM's "copycat" styling of the past decade, and claimed that they were just imitating various Japanese cars with the new look.

GM claimed it was to facilitate projector lamps.

No mention was ever made about projector lamps being illegal (in the States). I have never heard of this, and to the best of my knowledge, they have not been regulated out here. Knowing the percentage of Corvettes GM sells in Europe vs. USA, I doubt the illegality of popups in EU affected their decision; probably would have made minimum changes necessary to sell it over there like they have done historically.

As for the EU illegalizing pop-up lamps -- I know it has been complained about and discussed enough, but I'll just say that if the manufacturers wanted to (i.e. if pop-ups were still fashionable and not seen as a throwback to the 80s), then they would have designed popups that break away under a certain amount of force so as not to break people's bones (as was done with dashboards in the 1970s in the U.S.), or designed them so that under a certain speed they would deflect from a given amount of force, and lock into place at higher speeds. If the manufacturers would have wanted to continue to make them, a solution would have been found.

In the States, we are all too lazy to walk, and we have all this land to sprawl about, so we don't have the problem of pedestrians getting hit like you guys do! :huh: Popups died in the States because 1) it is cheaper to build cars without popups, 2) Popups are viewed as "totally 80s" and therefore out of fashion, and 3) European and Japanese cars don't have popups, and American manufacturers are always just copying off of the European manufacturers in styling (producing some really bland cars that are still no fun to drive). So, yes, indirectly, they died over here because they are illegal in the EU, but they really died over here because there is no longer the justification of "fashion statement" (which sells cars) to produce them. My apologies for my ethnocentricity.

- T

Tony K. :)

 

Esprit S1s #355H & 454H

Esprit S2.2  #324J

1991 Esprit SE

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Manufacturers trying to design different versions of them wouldn't stop the EU train from rolling! It's pretty monolithic and hugely tree hugging.

The solution imho is 'covered' headlamps.

Would look the same as pop ups when 'off'... but when 'on', the cover would simply slide aside and reveal lamps that look like they do now.

As for pop-ups being '80s' - I read some twat saying that on some other post recently (someone commenting on the Mule Pics) and quite frankly - NOB!

Fashion can kiss my narrow, white arse and anyone that obssessed with it can eff off! :rolleyes:

As Oscar Wilde said:

"Fashion is something so grotesque they have to change it every 6 months!"

[...or words to that effect!]

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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As you can now gather, we were looking at this thing and commenting on it earlier today.

General consensus on the matter seemed to say we are sick of looking at these half assed renderings and all the accompanying speculation, and that a look at the real thing would possably be the ideal antidote to all this nonesense. :rolleyes:

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Hans Lehmann is photographer, though so it could be a photo. They only thinkg is that it's too psoed to be a spy shot. If he had added a bit of camoflage and made it slightly out of focus and the car dirty, he would have convinxed me.

Mind you, I am a bit simple.

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S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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Trevor - I'm pretty sure we KNOW it's a rendition (iirc it SAYS so!!)

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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Yes. I'm sure as well.

Like I said, it's way too clear and posed to be a spy shot based on Lehmann's usual work (as published in Car magazine).

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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Lets discuss something else, I think we have exhausted the huge number of artists renderings that are out there and none of them are correct. The new car will not be viewed until Lotus are ready and it will not leave the security of Engineering for spies to get shots.

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Tony, its O.K. for you as you already know what it looks like :lol:

They should reveal the styling model ASAP IMO :(

It would generate alot of posative buzz for Lotus (needed), and if its ugly they would still have time to fix it :P

I think a Lotus Styling V.S. Giugiaro Design shootout for the body design of the new car would be exciting and sensational! :)

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We're not the ones coming up with the continuous barrage of (pointless) "Artist's impressions"

As Wayne says - it's easy for you to say - you've seen it! :lol:

As, it appears have a handful of people here who have signed up for some panel thing on the quiet without letting anyone else know! :(

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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Ah but .....ohhh I can't say.

Erm...how to put this so I don't have my testies sliced.... :lol:

Who says what they have seen is the final product. In fact whats to say that it isn't changing or been changed in a "designs do change up to the date of production" kind of way.

Eh eh? Was I suitably vague?

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well I always thought the whoel concept of being 'signed off' two years before production was somewhat incongruous as the point of keeping it secret was to be able to stay ahead of the curve stylingwise and not fix yourself to anything until you absolutely HAD to (imho that means up to the date of homologation / type approval / whatever its called)

(and to stop the opposition ripping you off before you get to market! How long before the new MR2 [or similar] looks like the new Esprit?! :lol: )

Even then anything that can be changed after that to me ought to be fluid until it's on the front cover of every magazine on earth! :(

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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at some point Lotus will have to register he design at the patent office as they did with the Europa, I think at that point the design is going to be fixed and then available to the general public. the stuff around at the moment is doing its job, misinformation to get us and the press talking about the new model..

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Someone in pistonhead forum said to see the real picture of the new Esprit in a swedish magazine including a interwiew with Mike Kimberley...he said that pics looks fantastic and that pistonheads publishing soon....you know more? :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

They've jsut photoshopped the front end of an Elise onto the back end of one of the existing artist's impressions!

I'm getting very bored of all these speculative images the magazines seem so keen on!!!

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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Well, maybe we should have a design contest for the LEF?

Everyone submits their design, or else you can't talk about others designs...

Ante up or Fold

Once you produce your design, then you are free to badmouth Peter Stevens, Guigaro or anyone else... But beware the consequences, cause everybody will also be able to comment on yours.

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

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PMSL!!!

Wasn't that one of our mate Teig's schoolboy scribbles?!? :lol:

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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Yes because a company is going to make a production GT car where the driver asnd Passenger are separated and can't talk to each other :lol:

Now while some of you with dysfunctional marriages may see that as a virute........ :)

Stupid ridiculous renderings :)

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

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Yes because a company is going to make a production GT car where the driver and Passenger are separated and can't talk to each other :)

Now while some of you with dysfunctional marriages may see that as a virute........ :)

Stupid ridiculous renderings :lol:

Dr. Fish,

You do realize that Mark included the pic of the white car as a means of showing the likely source of the Photoshopped Esprit picture, don't you?

It may come as a surprise to you, but the "GT car where the driver and passenger are separated and can't talk to each other" is a real production car. It started out as a concept spyder version of the Lamborghini Gallardo known as the "Concept S" but, after many requests, Lambo has agreed to make a limited production run of the vehicle.

Cheers,

KFM :)

Esprit Fact File

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There was a twin cockpit Lotus Elan project car for sale at this years Donnington show. It looked very professional, almost as if it was "meant to be". When I saw it, it was sold.

Check out the photo:

Twin Cockpit Elan

(Acknowledgement to "Trackside" on PistonHeads, hope you don't mind Gary!)

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the twin cockpit elan was a concept based on the m100 called the M200, it was in Paul mattys showroom for a couple of years and was bought by a dutch lotus collector who also bought the Etna IIRC

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.

Friedrich Nietzsche

find me on Tripadvisor

http://www.tripadvis...mbers/espritguy

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