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A friend walked in mid practice (on TV) I tried to explain the movable rear wing and the rules and regulation relating to it's use, You know what, it really is as stupid as it sounds.

No surprises at the top, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren, now joined by Mercedes. Team Lotus seem to made no progress (disappointing) whilst Renault have gone backwards, interesting that Petrov was quicker that Hidfeld, did anyone notice his replacement at Williams was a full 2 seconds slower than Baracello. Further proof that money speaks louder than talent not required.

With great regret I acknowledge that "Racing" in Formula 1 may never return in my life time. Still how many of us can say they saw Jackie Ickx pass Niki Lauda for the lead around the outside of Paddock bend at Brands Hatch, IN THE WET (and he was in a Lotus)

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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Totally disagree. The top teams are at the top. No surprise there and that goes for pretty well any sport you care to mention. The wing deal is no more complicated than the adjustable front wing deal from last year but the FIA has taken steps to allow the viewer to see where it can be used and when it is used to makes things clearer. Reminds me of the adjustable Lotus wings from 1969 but a lot better built. Innovation continues with Renault's exhaust layout and Williams super low-line gearbox being the prime examples.

Last year there was some great racing and this year, with the new tyres designed to be less long-lasting, will be even better. Can't wait.

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Totally disagree. The top teams are at the top. No surprise there and that goes for pretty well any sport you care to mention. The wing deal is no more complicated than the adjustable front wing deal from last year but the FIA has taken steps to allow the viewer to see where it can be used and when it is used to makes things clearer. Reminds me of the adjustable Lotus wings from 1969 but a lot better built. Innovation continues with Renault's exhaust layout and Williams super low-line gearbox being the prime examples.

Last year there was some great racing and this year, with the new tyres designed to be less long-lasting, will be even better. Can't wait.

There is some good racing here and there but the top spenders stay on top. I suppose thats "the way it is" but its reminiscent of Major League Baseball where the deck seems stacked against smaller-dollar teams right off the bat. And, noone can say that they havent taken the driver somewhat out of the equation or lessened their contribution. The cars are extremely "digital" now. It was never like this before - I watched F1 with my Dad way back when for years and none of this techie stuff was so prominent and counted on.

Im a huge Lotus cars fan and Ill watch them struggle this year and try to enjoy it for what it is. But, F1 will continue to be a "techie" game and eventually at this rate the driver wil just sit in the car and enjoy the ride as the car steers, brakes, and accelerates for him via some telepathy software that will be run by 25 people in a remote booth in the pit garage. Oh well. :rolleyes:

Edited by s2mikey
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Mike...what you describe was pretty much the F1 norm not that long ago. Gearboxes were fully automatic, suspension was software controlled, starts were also down to software and not the driver, traction control was standard....then the rules were deliberately changed to get back to the driver input being far more involved! I've culled this from the web, about the Williams cars of this era...

Ever since Williams started winning and found adequate sponsorship, the team has been committed to spending whatever it takes to stay technically ahead of the competition. Drivers were very important, of course, and Williams had access to the best, but the focus was to create the most advanced cars in the race.

In the 1990s, he did. ABS brought the realization that it was possible to allow computing power to do far more than keep wheels from locking. Normally, mechanical springs, anti-roll bars, and shock absorbers controlled suspension movement, feet controlled throttle and clutch, and levers controlled gearboxes, but in the brave new world of space-age technology, why not let a computer do it? Conceptually, it's a stunning idea; practically, it's a nightmare.

From 1989 to 1993, Formula One headed down this road, but Williams was way out in front. By 1992 he had the FW 14, which was a fully active car. "Hydro-pneumatic" devices that computers could control replaced the springs and shocks. The computers constantly adjusted ride height, spring rate, and roll stiffness so that the tires stayed in contact with the track and the chassis remained in optimal attitude.

This allowed the aerodynamicists to make all their gizmos work in a very small design envelope, which made them immensely efficient. ABS was there, of course, as was traction control to prevent spinning the tires under acceleration. To top it off, Williams designed a computer-controlled gearbox that would shift when the driver tapped a button or do it for him if he didn't.

By the time the Williams-Renault FW15C arrived, the computer tracked the engine revs so closely that the wheels wouldn't lock up when it downshifted in the wet. The driver's involvement was reduced to pushing very hard on pedals and steering.

With the FW 14 for Nigel Mansell and Ricardo Patrese in 1992 and the FW15 for Prost and Damon Hill in 1993 (the FW15 was available in August of 1992, but the 14 was doing so well there was no reason to bring out the new car), Williams set the bar almost impossibly high. Partially because of this, but also because of safety concerns and a need for better on-track competition, active suspension was banned for 1994, and the era came to an end.

The Williams FW15C was the final, ultimate product of a wild, almost out-of-control ride to technology's frontiers. The future involved a large step backward, and most of the technologies that made this car work were abandoned. The FW15C ended up being perhaps the most technologically advanced and simultaneously mind-numbingly complex race car of its era-possibly of all time.

So what we have today is very far removed from what you describe and fear. What the cars would be like , now, if there had been no rule changes to ban this avenue of development I can't say....but once the F1 series became more of a programmers contest than a car constructors and drivers contest, things had to change.

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Mike...what you describe was pretty much the F1 norm not that long ago. Gearboxes were fully automatic, suspension was software controlled, starts were also down to software and not the driver, traction control was standard....then the rules were deliberately changed to get back to the driver input being far more involved! I've culled this from the web, about the Williams cars of this era...

Ever since Williams started winning and found adequate sponsorship, the team has been committed to spending whatever it takes to stay technically ahead of the competition. Drivers were very important, of course, and Williams had access to the best, but the focus was to create the most advanced cars in the race.

In the 1990s, he did. ABS brought the realization that it was possible to allow computing power to do far more than keep wheels from locking. Normally, mechanical springs, anti-roll bars, and shock absorbers controlled suspension movement, feet controlled throttle and clutch, and levers controlled gearboxes, but in the brave new world of space-age technology, why not let a computer do it? Conceptually, it's a stunning idea; practically, it's a nightmare.

From 1989 to 1993, Formula One headed down this road, but Williams was way out in front. By 1992 he had the FW 14, which was a fully active car. "Hydro-pneumatic" devices that computers could control replaced the springs and shocks. The computers constantly adjusted ride height, spring rate, and roll stiffness so that the tires stayed in contact with the track and the chassis remained in optimal attitude.

This allowed the aerodynamicists to make all their gizmos work in a very small design envelope, which made them immensely efficient. ABS was there, of course, as was traction control to prevent spinning the tires under acceleration. To top it off, Williams designed a computer-controlled gearbox that would shift when the driver tapped a button or do it for him if he didn't.

By the time the Williams-Renault FW15C arrived, the computer tracked the engine revs so closely that the wheels wouldn't lock up when it downshifted in the wet. The driver's involvement was reduced to pushing very hard on pedals and steering.

With the FW 14 for Nigel Mansell and Ricardo Patrese in 1992 and the FW15 for Prost and Damon Hill in 1993 (the FW15 was available in August of 1992, but the 14 was doing so well there was no reason to bring out the new car), Williams set the bar almost impossibly high. Partially because of this, but also because of safety concerns and a need for better on-track competition, active suspension was banned for 1994, and the era came to an end.

The Williams FW15C was the final, ultimate product of a wild, almost out-of-control ride to technology's frontiers. The future involved a large step backward, and most of the technologies that made this car work were abandoned. The FW15C ended up being perhaps the most technologically advanced and simultaneously mind-numbingly complex race car of its era-possibly of all time.

So what we have today is very far removed from what you describe and fear. What the cars would be like , now, if there had been no rule changes to ban this avenue of development I can't say....but once the F1 series became more of a programmers contest than a car constructors and drivers contest, things had to change.

Well said - I must admit that Ive been out of the game for a while and have only casually paid attention in recent years. I know that last year there was some good action and decent competition. Maybe Im just wishing it was Lotus that was dominating - then Id be all for whatever they were doing. :hrhr:

Ah well - Ill be watching and rooting for Lotus and enjoy the racing the best I can. Perhaps me and others cling too much to the past. I mean, when Lotus was dominating in the 70's I bet a bunch of F1 fans thought F1 was heading in the wrong direction or not happy with this or that.

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Results

1 Vetel

2 Daylight

3 Hamilton

4Daylight

5 Petrov

6 Daylight

7 TBA

:sleeping:

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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Shouldn't this be merged with 1. Australia?

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Results

1 Vetel

2 Daylight

3 Hamilton

4Daylight

5 Petrov

6 Daylight

7 TBA

:sleeping:

I have to say that that is a great performance for daylight!

Vettel winning was no surprise to me, but Perez finishing 7th in his first GP with only one pit stop with tyres that aren't supposed to last that long did!

What is the difference between an overtake and a crash? An overtake is a crash that never happened!

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When I was young I once went to my dad after grazing my leg and said "it hurts when I touch it". His response was "don't touch it then".

You whinge when you watch F1 so stop watching it. Then you can devote your time to something you enjoy instead of trashing every race.

Sue

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Results

1 Vetel

2 Daylight

3 Hamilton

4Daylight

5 Petrov

6 Daylight

7 TBA

:sleeping:

This is actually pretty funny. I also noticed - how can any one NOT notice that there is seemingly about a half hour between cars in these races? By 3 laps there was already an insurmountable lead by the also insurmountable qualifier. It was over before it started. There isnt anything wrong with calling it like it is. I stil enjoy watching some of the racing....but other than a few scattered battles, there isnt much passing or actual tight racing. Sure, Button and Alonso was cool, Petrov was getting reeled in late by a Ferrari. Perez looked good. But, ultimately, there wasnt much nailbiting tension and there rarely is.

F1 is just so damned tight and technical and based on finances that it can be hard to swallow. It has its moments and its the pinnacle of motorsport development and thats why we watch. However, reality says that it could be a LOT better with tighter racing for the whole race, better matched cars & teams, and more passing.

Here in the USA, we have the exact opposite problem with Nascar: Its boring and pointless because the cars hardly ever separate. They just parade around for 400 laps all next to each other and then its won on the last pit stop. You get some racing but not nearly enough. Couple good battles are outshined by looooooong stretches of nothing happening of any consequence. And, like F1 - the big money teams always win and the small ones always lose. Like clockwork.

I just wish there was more actual racing and the top few cars didnt have 45 second leads 4 laps in. Doesnt mean we should stop watching - just means that we can see whats wrong and so can many others.

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How hard would it be to install a telemetry controlled, track steward monitored, device that automatically dialed back the HP by 1% or so if you achieved a greater than 20 second lead? And if that interval still produced excessive nodding off, then it could be adjusted as necessary to liven things up. You could even have "real time" worldwide fanbase "input" via mobile texting, majority rule as it were. A special algorithm would be utilized to suppress excessive Ferrari input.

Just a thought..... :ice:

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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We have a yacht racing class here in Australia called the 18 Footers, 2 basic rules, boat 18 feet, race starts at 1 O'clock.

Trust me it's more exciting than yesterday's race, with an ever increasing rule book (must be a few thousand pages by now.

I live in hope that I might again one day see the great duels between great drivers, rather than a technical exercise in boredom.

Sadly F1 was destroyed when the FIA paid Ferrari vast sums of money to tow the line, it's never recovered and even more sadly probably never will.

Closer racing, more passing :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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Looks like we'll have to move the Oz Melbourne GP to the Bathurst Mountain circuit.

Now that would be exciting for all.

Simon  (94 S4)      My Esprit will be for sale in late 2017

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Looks like we have a few goldfish on here who can't remember last year. After the 2010 Bahrain GP many people, a lot of whom should have known better, were calling for drastic rule changes because the race was so boring. Of course, no rule changes were forthcoming, but was still had a great season and a tight championship.

The flappy wing use rules are still being tuned and may or may not lead to more overtaking without it becoming a given that the car behind can always pass the car in front by pressing the wing button. Pirelli are still developing the tyres to give a bigger difference between the hard and soft compounds. Some of the teams have some reliability issues to sort out. All in all, we still don't really know how the season will pan out.

There were some battles going on. Even though there wasn't much passing, doesn't mean there weren't cars fighting for position. Sure, Vettel disappeared into the distance and he may do the same at every race but that doesn't stop there being excitement further down the field.

To Sue, I think Roger likes to watch the races so he has something to complain about. After all, he isn't married. :lol:

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I'll watch it with interest this year but there was alot of space between most of the finishers. The only fun was when faster cars were penalised/stopped for tyres and had to overtake again. Just a shame it was Button!

I must admit I used the ffwd button from about half way till the end.

Vettel looks unstoppable, but then he did last year, just have wait with fingers crossed, for him to cock it up himself.

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I think Brundle said that that is 3 races he's lead for the entire race so he does look pretty good for the win already!

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Vettel looks unstoppable, but then he did last year, just have wait with fingers crossed, for him to cock it up himself.

I think thats the only way he can lose it, other than reliability issues. Red Bull have certainly carried on from where they left off.

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In years gone past there have always been dominant teams but it never lasts. I remember when Williams seemed unstoppable but look at them now.

And Lotus back in the distant memories of the early and late 70's :)

Several years back Mario helped setup Duncan Dayton's Type 79 for Watkins Glen F1 reunion and it was the class of the field that weekend

besting later 80's cars like Williams. Still great after all those years and it was definitely poetry in motion for the eyes!!!

Edited by comem47
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The 'Williams era' was the one I enjoyed most, unfortunately Lotus were fading as Williams rose. Now I'd love to see Williams and Team Lotus claw their way back up to regular podium finishes.....

I thought that the first race was reasonable, given that there was some new tech stuff for everyone to get their heads round but, being a bit of a luddite at heart, I'd like to see the return of big fat tyres with severely crippled wings to increase the reliance on mechanical grip.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.<br />

<br />

In practice, there is!

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I live in hope that I might again one day see the great duels between great drivers, rather than a technical exercise in boredom.

Sadly F1 was destroyed when the FIA paid Ferrari vast sums of money to tow the line, it's never recovered and even more sadly probably never will.

Closer racing, more passing :rofl::rofl::rofl:

The technical-ness of it certainly hasnt helped. I understand that they've tried to dial some of that down but when the steering wheel alone looks like it could run the Millenium Falcon, somethings amiss. When there are 20 plasma TVs in the team booth - we *might* be getting a little too Star Trekkish. There is evidence that its mostly the car: Shumacher and other Championship winning drivers suddenly are mediocre when you take them out of the "monster" cars. Maybe Im wrong but thats the way it appears. If its all about the car, then so be it.

Its still interesting to some extent and Ill keep my eye on it but it seems that the days of drivers duking it out with similar cars are long gone. It is what it is.

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