free hit
counters
412 BHP...THAT WILL DO NICELY...... - Page 14 - Esprit Chat - The Lotus Forums #ForTheOwners Jump to content


412 BHP...THAT WILL DO NICELY......


CHANGES

Recommended Posts

  • Gold FFM

It's the temperature of the fuel entering the engine that need to be measured, rather than in the tanks, in my view. It would need a sensor in the fuel supply line itself. There are gauges and sensors on the market that do precisely that.

Margate Exotics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
On 2017-6-8 at 22:55, Jacques said:

Another point of interest for me at least, is weather the installation of the tubular exhaust manifold being made of thin 321 stainless steel, raises the fuel temperature by it's (thin) design and type of alloy, or the potential increased exhaust gas speed will counteract this effect? And if so, I guess for example exhaust wrapping the tubular exhaust manifold would lower that heat spread in the area, and potentially send it out of the exhaust system via the rear silencer?

You will always get more engine bay temp for the reason's you stated, but also the tubular manifold has more mass.  Wrapping will and does help this but not as much as you would think at full chat..   I adopted wrapped system because my engine bay is completely sealed,  I do have a designated air flow but felt wrapping may help..   As you can see from this picture even a wrapped system will let considerable heat through when pushed to the extremes. 

thumbnail_IMG_3374.thumb.jpg.f9372252e7d0496c9fbfd98b7eb277d6.jpg

Initially  i used 1800' degree  wrap but this overheated and fell to piece's ... I am now on a titanium type wrap good for over 2000 degrees...  the jury is still out on that..   However what i have manged to do is a feasibility  study on the Alunox system with a wrap to ascertain whether there is any negative effects on reliability from doing this.. I am pleased to say i have not had any problems at all..    One point of note is it is not the easiest system to wrap !!!!:(  as this next pic shows

HPIM4016.thumb.JPG.dfd6cc0fb85ed71965286752a581b68c.JPG

To further address any temp transfer issues i used a high temp thermal reflective barrier on the engine bay in that area, I have also now installed a turbo jacket.  . 

hope that helps with your decisions.. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...
On 6/17/2017 at 18:04, ragingfool35 said:

i was concerned with the COP exposure to exhaust heat so added some shielding (the lip on the mounting plate)

 

 

GEDC0763a.JPG

Could you post a close up picture?

MrDangerUS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/16/2017 at 19:35, CHANGES said:

HPIM4016.thumb.JPG.dfd6cc0fb85ed71965286752a581b68c.JPG

 

 

On 6/17/2017 at 23:04, ragingfool35 said:

was concerned with the COP exposure to exhaust heat so added some shielding (the lip on the mounting plate)

Interesting point made there.......In my case the COP's were mounted to the frame. The concern was more about the heat getting under said frame and turning it into a hot plate..   To prevent this you can see the thermal composite material on the lower edge that seals the gap..  Being relatively flexible it was able to be shaped to suit.    The heat tests showed it made a huge difference when not fitted..  so well worth having ..   To date there has been a fare few thousand miles , along with the extreme dyno tests sessions to validate the COP conversion.    I think Chris ragingfool35   will agree this is a well worthwhile conversion ,especially when used with sequential timing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the tuners in the USA advised ditching the stock setup and use Audi coils as they are light, inexpensive and available anywhere for about $100 a set of 4.  I have no idea if mine are any better or worse than the stock system, but the elimination of plug wires was appealing and my understanding is that COPs:

allow for better spark management.
Dwell time can be adjusted individually per cylinder
Better misfire detection.
Multiple sparks per combustion event possible.
Greater reliability.
Less effect on emissions during a failure.
No need for a "double" platinum style plug

when using an aftermarket ECU.  These tuners are doing crazy high hp builds though, not a street motor.  I had heard of spark blow out at high boost (higher than I was going to attempt) and they indicated the use of these COPs would either delay that problem to higher boost or RPM or provide a means to mitigate.  interestingly, my first tune was done with a misfire.  The tuner advised switching from the double platinum plug to iridium, which helped noticeably.  I installed a new set of Audi-clone COPs and misfire resolved. 

If you go sequential, COP conversion is a no-brainer.  Replacing that unobtainable OEM coil driver seems a good idea...

chris

90SE

just because I don't CARE doesn't mean I don't UNDERDSTAND

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/14/2018 at 02:19, ragingfool35 said:

when using an aftermarket ECU.  These tuners are doing crazy high hp builds though, not a street motor.  I had heard of spark blow out at high boost (higher than I was going to attempt) and they indicated the use of these COPs would either delay that problem to higher boost or RPM or provide a means to mitigate.  interestingly, my first tune was done with a misfire.  The tuner advised switching from the double platinum plug to iridium, which helped noticeably.  I installed a new set of Audi-clone COPs and misfire resolved. 

If you go sequential, COP conversion is a no-brainer.  Replacing that unobtainable OEM coil driver seems a good idea...

The reason I went with the aftermarket ECU was to capitalize on the Flow tuning that had been introduced.   Without it the limitations of the std ECU would choke the potential.    With the std ECU any boost over 1 bar is not really calibrated, bigger injectors help but upset the lower settings.     Spark blow off was not a problem until around 1.4 bar, there was probably reduction up to that point but no misfire..  Initial compensation was made by reducing the plug gap as small as 0.015.  this did the job up to 1.62 bar... but it was not correct..  we were not getting the best burn but it did work in its way....  This is when we went COP .. end of problem 1.65 bar at 0.035 plug gap..   Along with the TPS  upgrade going sequential on spark and fuel was a massive step up for smoothness.  Noticeable from initial startup..   

 So to recap these mods really open the door to improvements. They can give you power potential but the most important aspect is smooth quality running engine..     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...
9 hours ago, pete said:

@CHANGESany news on the gearbox?

 Quick up date , 

For those not in the loop on this , the gear box has let go at speed, (under acceleration)..  circa 60+mph

Symptoms were.   First engine hit rev limiter then total loss of drive....... I rolled for approx 1/2 a mile trying to find lay-by..  No real noise during the roll but maybe a bit rough sound like a bearing gone bad..  After stopping , no drive in 1st.. 3rd... 5th..  Partial drive in 2nd ..4th ..Rev... but only so far,  then clonk and no drive...    When towed by the police to safer spot there was the same bad bearing noise but the odd click /clonk which i was worried was going to catch and lock the back up..   When we pulled it onto the breakdown truck it did lock up and we had to  go back and forward till it went off with a large clonk and freed itself..   The first thoughts were a drive shaft CV had detonated, but why the partial drive in some gears and not others.   A mystery to be sure...   

We ruled out the CWP as we all know they bang like hell when they let go.  Plus we had total loss of drive in three gears , however the partial drive in the rest was indicative of CWP failure..  but not the towing or rolling , as the CWP would make one hell of a noise doing that...  

So you can imagine my surprise when initial strip has shown  CWP has stripped 4  1/2 teeth from the root and the pinion is looking very sad..   Oil was stained for analysis , but found to be very clean , some  swarf deposits and odd bit of tooth, very small amounts to be fair..  Under the CWP was the main  shrapnel off the CWP ..     None of this fully explains all the symptoms listed above , so further investigations are needed...   

At this point I have only seen the CWP area,  the endoscope did not reveal anything obvious in the main box..   When i do a full strip down autopsy we will know more. Priority at the moment is to fit the spare box and get the Esprit mobile again.. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

21 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

If it’s been contained in the CWP area that could actually be goodish news - fingers crossed

lets hope so.  

UPDATE..

It appears that the loss of drive in 1st 3rd and 5th  was more to to with a selector problem from a loose joint in the shift cable.. How this came about at the same time one can only surmise,  but it came loose in the way that the cable sheath slipped back in its fixing when going for those gears instead of moving the selector arm fully.  When going for 2nd 4th and Rev it slipped back in and butted against its position then allow those gears to locate as normal..   Because of the G box failure I assumed it was internal ,  it was only when fitting a replacement box that the symptom was isolated and revealed itself.   I still have to strip and check the rest of the box to be sure , but I am feeling a bit more confident that it is no more serious than just the CWP. ..

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
On 09/10/2018 at 05:50, CHANGES said:

Now this is something i can get my teeth into... 

 

Dave,

Have you figured out what was the Failure Mode and Chain of Events ?

 

Edited by MrDangerUS

MrDangerUS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 12/12/2018 at 23:02, MrDangerUS said:

Dave,

Have you figured out what was the Failure Mode and Chain of Events ?

 

Sorry for the slow reply but only recently done the full strip and check to confirm how things unfolded.  

It seems it was just the CWP that let go , the rest of the box is in tip top condition. Fortunately none  of the bits traveled into the main area.  

Looking at the torque capability of the 3.89:1 CWP. , it was only at matter of time , it was never going to hold the 450 ft lb for ever.     I came to the final conclusion it let go when it did because I had recently increased the mechanical grip with the new wheel tyre set up.  Aggressive acceleration would break traction in second and third before, this would release the torque from the drive train .  We now have to really power hard to twitch in second (in the dry only) ..   this increased grip transferred the higher / or complete torque load onto the CWP.   net result failure.   

The reason it did not go bang bang when I coasted or was towed was probably down to the state of the teeth on the pinion which were well chewed..  

IMG_20190119_105102804.thumb.jpg.518e65babe5a743117ef39244a1c4485.jpg

 

Where to go now.. ?   

 I will take this opportunity to try and solve the high ratio 1st problem by fitting a 4.11:1 CWP .  The figures look very promising..     I do have a high torque 4.11 in stock from GTO Racing , but with spike loads it could be bumping up against its limits..  GTO Racing say it will be fine, but looking at it , i'am unconvinced at the moment. :rtfm:   So at present I am looking into and talking with a gear specialist who can make a bespoke CWP well capable of handling all the projected loading's..   

 will advise.. :secret:

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear of this failure.

Apologies for not being up with all the details......................

Was this a standard gearbox or had it been upgraded to the GTO/Quaife internals?

I've thoroughly enjoyed following this thread.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...