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Dany Bahar - 3 Questions

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I hate to be a naysayer, but if he states 'People always question the cost but, believe me, if we couldn’t afford it we wouldn’t do it.' then why in another article is he looking at shedding 99 people?

What are the tax rules in the UK for advertising cost versus employee wages and what can be claimed etc?

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In a company of almost 2,000 people any business review will more than likely show cost savings can be found. Just because you have money doesn't mean you want to waste money (although at times it certainly looks like they're trying their hardest to!)

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You're right. Any investigation into a company will always come up with either a fat department or one that needs to improve productivity. Rarely does the opposite occur.

However, while people may look at and support Lotus in F1 or Indy etc, does anyone here know of anyone that has ever said I bought my esprit because Lotus won the constructors or because of Jim Clark or Ayrton Senna.

I don't even know anyone that has said in Oz that they bought a holden or a ford because either of them won Bathurst.

I though GL wanted to increase the number of cars per year yet they are going to shed staff moving into an ambitious development and delivery schedule.

That on top of several seemingly contradictory statements as released in the press and stuff gets confusing. :scared:

Pfft. I'm just a project planner. What would I know?

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"With regards to our involvement with Lotus Renault GP, as Lotus we stand united with Genii Capital and have every confidence in the future success of Lotus Renault GP."

does not sound like the words of a man making a 25% capital investment (or is it 20%?)

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You're right. Any investigation into a company will always come up with either a fat department or one that needs to improve productivity.

And in this case its the Management and Directors. Just one Director now gets what the previous complete Board were paid!

Its great! Bring in loads of non UK Directors and lay off hundreds of working class line workers!

And I do mean hundreds because he has been shedding jobs with no "press releases" for 6 months now (local knowledge).

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I think historians have said that Hitler could well have won WWII if he had not spread himself so thin on so many fronts.

I can't help but feel that DB et al GL are employing the same sort of strategy. The question is how far can you stretch yourself before it all unravels?

I hope it doesn't for them, as I love my esprit and have never had a car move me like the esprit did from TSWLM so I really hope Lotus stay around forever.

From an outsider looking in and not knowing their grand plan though (or even being able to discern it), it can be disconcerting.

One minute it looks great. Here's 5 cars over the next however many years.

Hmm. We'll make our own engine now.

Hmm. We'll enter F1 (well nearly).

Hmm. We'll enter Indy.

Hmm. We'll go to court to try and get what we didn't want before.

etc etc etc.

It can't all be smoke and mirrors as some pretty high end people have been sourced.

Ah bugger it, I know nothing of the grand plan. I wish 'em all the best. I'll never own one new, so I hope they get 'em sorted and I'll but one second hand down the track. (I hope)

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Lmao. I love your analagy!

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Hate to jump on the bandwagon here but I have to say to my mind Dany Bahar looks like he doesnt seem to understand the size of the company he is now running. There are some things it would be nice to do but if you aint got the money you aint got the money. Spending it could tip the comapany over the edge. I know and like some of his ideas but you need to do these thing a bit on the cheap without appearing to do so.

Letting TF carry on withF1 while your car comapny can take the credit with no outlay.

Using a stock engine rather than creating your own which IMO is a Mad way to go...the advantages to my simple mind dont out weigh the costs and time and reliablity.

I do like the look of the new car ideas but build them on the Evora base...oh was that the Elan then?...

Come back MJK I think we may need your help. He seemed to have a grasp of what is possible in the real world!

Buddsy

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I hate to be a naysayer, but if he states 'People always question the cost but, believe me, if we couldn’t afford it we wouldn’t do it.' then why in another article is he looking at shedding 99 people?

My thoughs exactly.

I am really confused with the whole thing now, don't really know what to think. I'd class myself as behind Bahar but to announce expansion plans at Hethel and then redundancies (with a view to a recruitment drive according to the BBC) suggests production is moving overseas. Every piece of info seems to be contradicted by something else.

I would not expect any company to put out a negative press release but there is no smoke without fire.

I stil hope DB turns it round and we are discussing how great the new Esprit is in a year or two from now.

Buddsy - I don't think your last comment will ever happen after just reading Kimbers latest thread about his health.

Edited by Nelly9000

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Oh, not those 3 questions? :devil:

But I wish Sir Dany the impetuous would need to have answered the questions before coming on board or suffered the same fate!!!

HolyGrail196.jpg

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I'm curious about how such a renowned marketing expert can screw up the communications about the F1 involvement and announce [insert figure here] job losses in one week.

But then again, I'm with Bill Hicks's rant on 'marketing', and a firm believer that incompetence finds it's own level.

//R

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Worked with brand managers and marketing and commercial managers for several years all the same believe in unicorns and expect everyone to but somehow are never held responsible for their screw ups. And this guy seems just the same never put a brand manager in charge

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Ramjet wrote:

It can't all be smoke and mirrors as some pretty high end people have been sourced.

That's my view too. Too much attention seems to be placed on the perceived strengths and weaknesses of Dany Bahar as if he's working in some sort of vacuum, rather than heading up a talented team of people with a proven track record in their respective fields.

I also don't really think it's fair to criticise Bahar for changing his message on the development of the marque. Examples include the choice of engine for future cars and the decision to delay the Elan. I think it a strength that a company is able to modify its plans following feedback from the market, from the result of an internal debate within the company or changing financial constraints rather than doggedly sticking to an initial annoucement as if that is the only choice ahead.

Having said that, until the first future project (presumably the Esprit) finally appears, there will always be doubts about the ability of Lotus to deliver on the promises, and concerns about those in charge and the decisions they make are bound to continue - it's only natural.

When is the Esprit due? Next year sometime?

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2013. Having done what they did in Paris I think it really needs to be next year - the only thing that will stop all the negativity is some new product coming out.

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Hum, some products should come this year! That's just my opinion!

Edited by NedaSay

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They need to bring something to the market to show it is not just smoke & mirrors

BUT

they need to show from the start that part of this new era is quality control - trim that does not fall off, no early recalls, solid & reliable feel to the cars - that requires adequate development time and no rushing to market

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they need to show from the start that part of this new era is quality control - trim that does not fall off, no early recalls, solid & reliable feel to the cars - that requires adequate development time and no rushing to market

I agree entirely. It was always going to be hard for the Evora to nudge into Porsche territory, but to release the car with so many obvious flaws was a terrible mistake. It needed to be better on all fronts than the competition in order to succeed. Now, 2 years later, and they're still talking the language of catch-up in the deficient areas. I remember when the Elise was launched. The reviews were so utterly gushing with praise that it was impossible for the car not to sell well. This has to happen with the Esprit. It has to leave motoring journalists foaming at the mouth with praise in order to break the buying habits of the target audience, and once you get said punter into the showroom, it has to make them fall in love. Surely it can't be too hard to get people to sit in the prototypes and spot the obvious issues prior to the reviewers and public getting their dirty mits on the thing. I think the decision to go for a lotus engine owes a lot to the showroom appeal. I have no doubt they could have used a third party engine to achieve their performance targets, but when you're asking someone to fall in love with a piece of motoring exotica, there's a demand for 'the real thing', and having a lotus engine in their flagship product enhances the appeal. (Assuming it works :-) )

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So If I wanted to hire a load of automotive executives away from secure jobs with established companies to add credibility to my grand plan of turning around a company that was suposedly failing, how would I do it?

Simple, make them an offer they couldnt refuse by paying them ALOT more money in wages and bonuses than they could ever had got before in their previous positions.

I have never regarded Lotus as a company that was particulary overstaffed, on the contary the company has always seemed to function with a smaller workforce compared to an operation like Aston-Martin, so I presume the economies are primarily being made to fund the paychequesof the execs. using the existing revenues generated by the sales of cars and not from some pot of gold from obscure financial institutions I have never heard of.

I feel genuinely bad for the blokes who have been laid off by Lotus over the last couple of years (remember the trim shop?)and of course their chances of finding a job locally must be pretty slim to none ATM.

Sad.(to me anyways) :thumbdown:

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the company has always seemed to function with a smaller workforce

They've operated at a net £200m loss over the last 15 years... that's not functioning really and the exec team aren't motivated entirely by money, of that I'm sure. To get someone to leave their job they've been in for decades, already earn more money than they know what to do with and move away from their friends and family takes more than some cash. I've worked in recruitment for over a decade and cash is more often than not one of the least important aspects of a job.

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They've operated at a net £200m loss over the last 15 years... that's not functioning really and the exec team aren't motivated entirely by money, of that I'm sure. To get someone to leave their job they've been in for decades, already earn more money than they know what to do with and move away from their friends and family takes more than some cash. I've worked in recruitment for over a decade and cash is more often than not one of the least important aspects of a job.

Have you forgotton Mike Kimberley turning around Lotus to return a 2 million pound plus profit in mid 2008?

Money, Money, Money ,of course they are in it for the money.

If some company offered me a years wages at 4 times my current pay of course I would go, after all wouldnt I have at a least couple of years funds available to cushion me enough to find a new position when the whole scene goes moody?

Just my opinions/observations, Im not privvy to confidential inside Lotus information like yourself. :)

Edited by billy fish

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However, while people may look at and support Lotus in F1 or Indy etc, does anyone here know of anyone that has ever said I bought my esprit because Lotus won the constructors or because of Jim Clark or Ayrton Senna.

It was Lotus' racing success that first got me interested in their road cars. Am I alone, then?

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I did say that it was a 'net' £200m loss. I'm not accounting for year on year results, hence the word 'net'. If I were Proton however and my little sports car company in Norfolk had cost me £200m over 15 years, a £2m profit would be using a plaster on a shark bite.

And no, as I said, I don't think immediate wages are the incentive.

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And no, as I said, I don't think immediate wages are the incentive.

I don't have any idea how much various people attracted to Lotus recently are being paid, but I imagine that the possibility of helping transform a company with such a rich heritage into a successful and prominent global sportscar manufacturer is a big draw.

Quite a few other marques have been transformed in this way over the years. Lotus is probably the most significant company with such a rich heritage which could be so much more than it currently is right now. I imagine that it would be tremendously satisfying to all concerned to be a part of the eventual success, which isn't to take anything away from the efforts of those who have tried up till now but not managed to find the magic formula which catapults the company into serious health and growth.

To pick up on one aspect of the future plans - new lotus-designed engines - imagine for a moment that you were the bloke who architected what turned out to be a successful range of power plants sitting at the heart of the Lotus experience. You'd get a lot more out of your job than the bills paid each month, especially since there seems to be so much (perhaps understandable) scepticism over the chances of success.

Good luck!

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