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OK this is overshadowed by the appaling events in Norway, but I was saddened to hear this news today.

I was shocked, but in hindsight probably not surprpised. As one of my friends on Facebook put it, "she has been killing herself for our entertainment since she became famous".

I think its sad that here is another example of someone not being able to handle fame, and I think the stuff with the NOTW is applicable here. I would not be surprised to hear if her phone had been hacked, because I think the press have relished in reporting on her downfall.

RIP

Edited by Nelly9000
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From a news article:

Richard Roeper found it surprising that several singers also died at 27. “Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones, Kurt Cobain and now Amy Winehouse: all died at 27.”

I suppose her highly inebriated performance in Serbia last month ought to have been a strong signal for [more] intervention. Fame and youth have always been a volatile combination. Some just don't seem to handle it well. A pity.

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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The 27 thing baffles me, why has the media gone to town on that, the list they keep reading out is a dozen or so famous people long. I googled famous people that died at 26 and then ones that died at 28 and i had equally impressive lists of really big stars that all also died equally tragically young. What a daft thing to pick up on, whats next? How tall she was tragic club? Or maybe the people with beehives tragic club? Other people that died on the same day club? And they always manage to mention 'Diana', how inane is that????

It can't be just tragic anymore, it has to be the most tragic since, or tragic in the same way as, etc...

:wallbash:

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Sad though it is, let's not forget, that there are young people dying on our streets almost on a daily basis, who never had the opportunity of luxury rehab clinics and costly support structures.

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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I agree, its very sad but the fact its happened at the same time as the horrors in Oslo and the rail crash in the far east puts things into perspective.

Perhaps there will be less of the hysteria usually associated with death of a celebrity?

Probably not.

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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Now Lady Gaga can go back to her natural hair colour. She dyed it blonde because she was tired of being mistaken for Amy Winehouse.

"If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's electrical." -somebody's dad

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Other things to add perspective, there are 800 000 children in the horn of africa right now in a state of acute malnutrition with many of them certain to die before they are 5 yrs old. The coverage and public concern about this is muted at best. One drug addict singer dies and the blogosphere is awash with comments about how sad it is. If one singers self inflicted death is a tragedy, what is the deaths of many hundreds of children through starvation. Makes you think

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I agree with simon, sad but not shocking or suprising. Amazed she lasted as long as she did!

Loved her music though.

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From a news article:

Richard Roeper found it surprising that several singers also died at 27. “Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones, Kurt Cobain and now Amy Winehouse: all died at 27.”

I suppose her highly inebriated performance in Serbia last month ought to have been a strong signal for [more] intervention. Fame and youth have always been a volatile combination. Some just don't seem to handle it well. A pity.

More to do with that they all took drugs rather than being 27

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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Whilst she was a mission of self destruction, I am saddened at her death. RIP young one :(

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sad loss but personally I think the music industry need to start asking some serious questions about the culture that leads to this. It simply happens to often, would this be tolerated in other industries?

Cliff

Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. Invariably they are both disappointed. : Albert Einstein

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I've been watching Shane drink himself to death for years, to be honest, if he cleaned up his act the pogues would not be the same.

The very best artists, past/present, in music/art have been fragile, self destructive and mentally unstable, it's been that way since artforms began..

Had they not been, they would have been just like us and in being so, unremarkable.

:D

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Latest in a long line of premature drug assisted dead musicians...been going on since at least the 1940's. Charlie Parker lasted to 35.....Miles managed to drag himself out of his addiction and went on to astound everyone; it seemed that heroin use was a pre requisite to musical success. Improvising musicians espoused anything they could get their hands on to stimulate the creative processes.....Billie Holiday did jail time for narcotics and went at 45.

Seems you can't help people in these circumstances; they have to do it themselves. So sad.

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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the standard spin given out by some to justify these matters is that the level of genius is increased, as some of these "genius" artists involved are often as not on a "high" anyhow it is impossible to say if it makes any difference or not. If however you look elsewhere there are a lot of "geniuses" in all walks of life that don't require some form of artificial stimulant to get there, just my view :)

Cliff

Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. Invariably they are both disappointed. : Albert Einstein

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The very best artists, past/present, in music/art have been fragile, self destructive and mentally unstable, it's been that way since artforms began..

Had they not been, they would have been just like us and in being so, unremarkable.

Agree 100% with the above.

The late Bill Hicks did a great sketch on the positive effect drugs have had on music - "if you don't believe that drugs have done good things, take your entire CD collection and burn it".

I am not saying its a good or bad thing but creativity and this sort of thing does seem to go hand in hand

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Not sure about drugs being a requirement to be creative.

Can we have some examples of 'clean' artists?

Problem is, those artists who take drugs/alcohol but fail to be successful as a result are by the very nature, unknown.

So, inorder to get the predictive value of drugs on artistry, we need to know 4 numbers.

1. Clean and successful

2. Clean and unsuccessful

3. Dependent and successful

4. Dependent and unsuccessful

Only then would the positive or negative effects on creativity be known.

Of course, this is clearly impossible to determine since we could only come close to getting values 1 and 3.

Is it not more likely that fame and fortune usually smile on the young (the old have gone off and got proper jobs) who are

less able to discriminate between moderation and excess and perhaps, dont feel they need to. After all I'm sure that many see themselves as 'invincible'.

For me, the sad thing about Amy's death is that we could all see it coming.

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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I used to work with Amy's brother, my thoughts go to him and his family.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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So, inorder to get the predictive value of drugs on artistry, we need to know 4 numbers.

1. Clean and successful

2. Clean and unsuccessful

3. Dependent and successful

4. Dependent and unsuccessful

Only then would the positive or negative effects on creativity be known.

Good luck with that list mate, am sure you will spend hours, if not weeks, if not months, if not years, if not decades filling a list of straight and sensible people that are very good at what they do. Find a million of them but...

Take that list and compare to a list of Just 50 of the ones that over the last few hundred years that have drunk themselves to death, smoked themselves to death, screwed themselves to death by sexual disease, overdosed on drugs, choked to death on their own vomit, hung themselves, shot themselves, drown themselves, died bloated on the toilet etc...

And your list of James Blunts and chuffing Dido's,and Cliff Richards, well, it looks like a list of deputy headmasters.

Its the wild and remarkable and even repulsive things that stand out, in anything.

:)

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Lets not forget that our children see these folk as role models!

My kids are quite young, so they still listen to me when I point out that they are negative role models. I'm sure as they hit 12 or 13, I'm done for.

As for my list, its just an expression that the view that drugs seed creativity is biased, misguided and lazy.

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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It's just bollocks and an excuse that "Creative" people have to be allowed to get high and are self destructive etc. It's just that they work in an industry that tolerates/turns a blind eye to it as to many people are making too much money out of it.

I used to work in an arm of that industry and you can get high, drunk, out of shape and much more as long as when your needed you scrub up and can generate money, then it's tolerated. If you carried on like this in an office or a building site you would be out the door.

When they die then the spin comes out viewing it through rose tinted specs. Jim Morrison is a prime example, he is lorded as the Lizard king when infact he was a second rate poet and an alcoholic, but he probably generates more money dead than alive. So it's in the interest of those parties to pepetuate the myth.

When your younger you may drink to much amongst other things, but real life reigns you back in and then you grow up. Imagine being in a industry that basically says "Go out get absolutly Bolloxed, but come back on Monday as your a cash cow, don't worry if you don't make it to middle age as we have a lovely design for the greatest hits boxed set and then the cash will really roll in"

Must admit I do not know how Keith Richards is still alive, but he is a prime example of turning a blind eye to substance abuse as long as it's generating cash.

Edited by red vtec

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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As said, Keith Richards is the exception to the rule. Just like the 90 year old smoker who says it never did im no 'arm.

It would be nice to do what you liked, have an excuse that justified it and still got paid.

Presumably if you need to be high to produce 'fine art', you would have to be high to appreciate it. I dont so they dont.

I do, however accept that many artists are indeed fragile and weak individuals but presumably thats what selected them for non-real jobs in the first place. They can't take the strain of true life and they prop themselves up with emotional and chemical crutches. Its not their fault but we shouldn't applaud it.

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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I don't think Amy Winehouse's addiction was a product of the music industry, it was more a way of dealing with the endless attention of the press, hounded from dawn 'til dusk with every mishap poured over by the tabloids. The pressure to deliver a follow up to Back to Black must've been huge too, she was the real deal, a hugely talented singer songwriter, not just some mindless X-Factor puppet. Her poor choice of husband didn't help either...

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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