free hit
counters
London Riots - Page 5 - General Chat - The Lotus Forums - Lotus Community Partner #ForTheOwners Jump to content


IGNORED

London Riots


Bibs

Recommended Posts

Manchester Police have just started tweeting the names of those convicted on Twitter - apparently to mixed reactions.

"All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad."

~ Jeremy Clarkson (about the Lotus Esprit)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
  • Replies 129
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Burning at least 26 flats, destroying a family business premises that has stood for 150 years, killing 4 people plus all the rest of the damage, all seems a bit extreme to me.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about viewing this as a golden opportunity for the cops?

Chance to get a good lot of the low lifes out there and locked up before the olympics.

Or at least getting a ton of them on file.

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting article about how the American police may have handled it.

Good article and the author seems like he's qualified too. The social media thing with Blackberry and Twitter needs fixing but other than that his only major criticism was the police were too slow.

"All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad."

~ Jeremy Clarkson (about the Lotus Esprit)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen that the idea of evicting the miscreants from their social housing ("Council Houses", in oldspeak) seems to be going ahead. Could be seen as a good idea....but the first oik to be evicted, it seems, will result in his parents being thrown out as well. One can argue all one likes about "parental control"..but, these days - as Kimbers has noted elsewhere..parents have been denied control by "The System" and any attempt to enforce sanctions can result in THEM appearing in court. Depriving his parents of their residence does seem a trifle harsh, always assuming they are otherwise acceptable.

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel the riots were inevitable as policing at soccer matches is pretty tight these days, so young males have lost the traditional places that they used to vent off testostarone by basically being violent to one another.

The violence will happen, we just have to get it so the assholes just hurt each other and dont damage any property or hurt the innocent.

Maybe a sort of reform school /summer camp that consists mostly of boxing would do the trick?

Edited by billy fish
SUNP0003-1.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kudos to Trevor and Dan for having the cojones to examine the social nuances in play here, when the easy out would be to "pile on" with all manner of physical retaliation (seemingly a central theme within the thread), up to and including summary execution. "Syrian justice" comes to mind. It works well for a time, but treating the symptoms rather than the disease does not often lead to long term results.

That these rioters and looters have done harm is not in question. If identified and caught, they must pay the price for their actions. The key issue, however, is how does the UK go about preventing future such "uprisings" without becoming a true "police state?" It's a fine line, indeed, between a democratic society's efforts to minimize criminal activies and the creation of a totalitarian environment such as the Chinese endure.

Parental influence is always the first line of defense, but it appears that a fair percentage of the rioters have not had the "benefit" of such guidance. Why? Until that question is addressed, merely affixing blame on the lack of parental "control" will accomplish little. The "nuclear family" is rapidly disappearing, and not just in the UK. And it does not seem to be a trend that will soon reverse itself. Thus, society must come to grips with the "problem" in a manner that focuses on the realities of large numbers of disenfranchised youth.

Are there any magic solutions to be found? The current programs are quite obviously not up to the job. Can they be modified? Or must there be a "paradigm shift" in the structure of the inadequate social fabric safety nets that have failed thus far? Is there sufficient "will" remaining with the "haves" to reach out to the "have nots," or has the chasm between the two grown so great, that the less fortunate among us are to be cast out entirely? How many new prisons will be needed? Is that really the best solution?

We on this forum are here because we own (to varying degrees) valuable automobiles. Most of us have never experienced the "feral" existence of the disillusioned souls responsible for the current lawlessness. "When you ain't got nothin', you got nothin' to lose." But lose they will. Is our society the better for it? Not likely. Unless a way is found to level the playing field a bit via educational and/or employment opportunities, such unrest will continue to hound us for the indefinite future.

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never said that you should not deal with the issues, I have said and will stand by what I have said is that you should stand up to these disturbances hard. You cannot have a bunch of thugs doing as they please. It is not "syrian justice" The police in many areas just stood and watched. They did not even use there battons let alone get out the machine gun, If they had acted in the very first instance there would not have bene the copycat looting.

And the crap that is spouted by the Police about the G20 death putting officers of going in, That was completly different that was a thug on the Police side pushing an innocent man to the ground. That officer was a thug, he had previous form. I think I'm even correct in saying he had removed his ID number.

My friend is a GMP inspector who was called into London with his team, he told me the Met did not have a clue what it was doing, what did he do? drove to London, hung around in a police station, got told to get there heads down for a few hours, drove through the City to go home. Got back to Manchester where there was lootting, and could not Police there as they were told they had been on duty to long.

The so called sentancing the looters after is a pure smoke screen, it would be interesting to see an actual list of what sentances have been given out.

Nothing to do with education and employment issues, it's purley lack of discapline hence the lack of education and then employment in the first place. Some of those who rioted were in employemt as teaching assistants, others were going to be olympic ambassadors, worked as Mentors. Would you actually want to employ these people? Would you want to live next door to them? They could not even show respect when turning up at court. To much MTV and not enough CP.

Regarding the loss of family that is exactly what I have said, in the past Children born out of wedlock, Fathers who do live up to there responsabilities, homes that created social issues etc were frowned upon by the wider community. Not saying we should go back to victorian times, but there has been far to much left wing influence.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, that was a beautifully written post by John aka Iconic Ride, do you write for a living?

I also agree with much of what you say but I do think that the police should've been better organised. I read an article in the Economist here that said that the training our police had did not include groups of looters or individual looters, clearly that should be on the agenda.

I also think Cameron made a good speech about his plans to address the root cause of the problem. I hope it's not just political rhetoric because he made some good suggestions.

Edited by Roz_Bennetts

"All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad."

~ Jeremy Clarkson (about the Lotus Esprit)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats one thing I love about SA, the police would have warned them once (maybe not even) and then Shot them with rubber bullets, then the rioters would burn some tires and get shot some more. I laugh so much when they show it on the news here. Your police should try it some time, looks great fun, like paint ball on steriods!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My friends a policeman in the riots and he said that they were all for CS gas grenades as the best way to break them up. One of those next to you and you can't even see to run away.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Parental influence is always the first line of defense, but it appears that a fair percentage of the rioters have not had the "benefit" of such guidance. Why?

You have to understand the mentality of a generation that have understood the modus operandi of the UK social services. Have a kid - get free/subsidised housing. Have another kid - get bigger housing. have another kid - get even bigger housing. Not forgetting all the other associated benefits payable by the state.

There are a significant number of kids that are viewed as a commodity even if they may not have been conceived as such.

The current programs are quite obviously not up to the job. Can they be modified? .

Doubtful. As the numbers of state dependants as increased exponentially it is fast becoming an area where it would be political suicide for any party to address the issue. I predict that even if 'call me Dave' manages to pass any significant modification to the state benefits system his party will be voted out at the next election in favour of whoever offers the biggest handouts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello ? Have you tried considering some relevant statistics that might make you think again ?

"According to a report from the Department of Work and Pensions September 2007, between 5.8 billion pounds and 9.4 billion pounds remained UNCLAIMED in 2005/06. According to Customs and Revenue statistics from 2006 from 2006: 5 billion pounds in tax credits went UNCLAIMED , bringing the total of funds NOT claimed by people in need, to 14 billion pounds.

A YouGov survey found that 40% of 2000 people interviewed, would seek to claim benefits if faced with a sudden loss of income.

Only 3% would seek help from charitable sources (and there are 366 million pounds available in charitable grants.

I think you will find that the reality is the opposite of the Benefits Horseman of the Apocalypse you have just unleashed, and I do hope I have thrown some stones under its hooves. And the idea of people voting for a party that gives them handouts ? I would Love it if only they DID ! It would show that people actually had something approximating the brains to act in their own interests.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe then they can use some of the 14 Billion pounds to buy plenty of Rubber bullets for next time.

Seems to me that the Benefits horsemen as you put it are galloping along fine in certain parts of the comunity. Not even showing a limp let alone going lame, in fact there a sure bet.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MPs and Justice Campaigners need to FRO!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14553330

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm all broken up about some junior thug, being detained at her majesties pleasure.

Perhaps in future other junior thugs might think about the consequences of anarchy, (so long as it's upheld)

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would the young thug respond thus ?

"Anarchy is often referred to in a pejorative sense indicating lawlessness but the classical definition of anarchism does not in fact imply nihilism aniomie or the total absence of rules but rather an anti-statist society that is based on the spontaneous order of free individuals in autonomous communities. Rather like the system extant in 10th century Iceland that endured until the 13th century ".

I doubt it somehow. What we witnessed was not anarchy (not least because 90% of those looting wouldn`t be able to spell the word) but greed, extreme selfishness and immorality given free rein; character traits that are inherent in all of us to a greater or lesser extent-hopefully lesser of course. Of course greed selfishness and immorality dressed in a pinstriped suit and filling in a claim form with porkies in the Palce of Westminster entitles you to just say "sorry-I`ll give it back right now!" just like oooh...what`s his face, who`s now our Prime Minister.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree Dan. Lets not forget that those fiddling their expenses were across all parties and supposed to be the role models for these thugs.

Bibs. I knew it wouldn't take long for the bleeding heart liberals and "Human rights organisations" to start complaining. They couldn't keep hidden away for too long without interfering (even after partly being the cause of all this).

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was listening to a radio phone in on local radio and everyone who called in wanted harsher sentances.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek Conway MP-forced to pay back £17,000 he was found to have "overpaid" his 2 researchers (who happened to be his 2 sons).

David Laws MP - claiming £40,000 he knew he was not entitled to.

Douglas Hogg MP-Making us pay for his moat to be cleaned. (I do like to see a nice clean moat though-or is it just me?)

Hazel Blears MP -Forced to pay back £14,000.

etc etc etc

Not one of the above charged.

A looter nicks £3.50 worth of water ?

6 months in prison.

The moral ? Just make sure you wear that nice suit, pressed shirt and tie whilst looting. It will help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Six months, should have been six bullets.

But i do agree about the MP's, Hazel Blears would be first on the Gallows pole.

I live near Lord Hanningfield who has gone to prison for fiddling, some of the locals (social climbers/arse lickers) were so far up his rear end you could not see there heads, strange how they do not mention it now.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...