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Cold start problem

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Erik, your symptoms were identical to mine. I tried replacing the O2 (Lambda) sensor, but I don't know if it helped. Unfortunately, when I replaced it, I also added a can of fuel injector cleaner and reset the ECU. Now the last 3 starts have been free from stalling or stumbling. It does rev to over 2000 rpm for about 3 minutes, then abruptly drops to 1000rpm, but I have been told that this is done purposefully to warm up the cat and pass U.S. emmissions standards.

Clearly, I'm a bad scientist changing 3 variables at a time, and 3 successful starts doesn't mean the problem is cured, but I'll keep you updated if the stumbling happens again.

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Erik, your symptoms were identical to mine. I tried replacing the O2 (Lambda) sensor, but I don't know if it helped. Unfortunately, when I replaced it, I also added a can of fuel injector cleaner and reset the ECU. Now the last 3 starts have been free from stalling or stumbling. It does rev to over 2000 rpm for about 3 minutes, then abruptly drops to 1000rpm, but I have been told that this is done purposefully to warm up the cat and pass U.S. emmissions standards.

Clearly, I'm a bad scientist changing 3 variables at a time, and 3 successful starts doesn't mean the problem is cured, but I'll keep you updated if the stumbling happens again.

I don't suppose it's that good for the engine to keep it at 2K revs for the warmup. I just stab the throttle and it idles down to about 1200 for warmup. I don't like this feature, I've defeated altogether on my RX7 as this is a well known addition to short rotary engine bearing life! Can't be good for these engines either especially considering the rather weak oil pump pressure on startup.

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Martynv,

Thanks for the reply! I actually tried this awhile back and to no avail she did the same thing upon start up! :(

Riddlemr2,

Thanks for the info! I think I am going to go ahead and order a lambda sensor and give it a whirl. I will probably also try putting some fuel injector cleaner in as well. I have reset the ECU before but still had the same problem upon startup. I read a post of yours a little further down and noticed that you said you were getting bad gas mileage. After you replaced your o2 sensor did the mileage go up? I have always gotten about 14 mpg, and most of the time I just cruise with a few throttle stabs on the highway here and there. Thanks!

-Erik E.

1994 Esprit S4

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Martynv,

Thanks for the reply! I actually tried this awhile back and to no avail she did the same thing upon start up! :P

Riddlemr2,

Thanks for the info! I think I am going to go ahead and order a lambda sensor and give it a whirl. I will probably also try putting some fuel injector cleaner in as well. I have reset the ECU before but still had the same problem upon startup. I read a post of yours a little further down and noticed that you said you were getting bad gas mileage. After you replaced your o2 sensor did the mileage go up? I have always gotten about 14 mpg, and most of the time I just cruise with a few throttle stabs on the highway here and there. Thanks!

-Erik E.

1994 Esprit S4

Not sure about the mileage yet...I only drive the car on weekends but I will let you know the next time I fill up. I'd like to think that the O2 sensor is the solution, especially since the car smells of unburned hydrocarbons when I stand outside...seems like it was running more than a little rich.

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From the video, it seems normal minus for the repeated no start in the beginning.

The jump to 2000 rpm is genetic - no way to get rid of that as its in the ECU's code for when the coolant temp is low.

The idle seems very similar to my 1993. I don't think they mastered the code till the S4S, which I have read idles smoother.

I had cold running issues when I first got my car. The IAC count would not go below 70....remembering back, I think the IAC might have been binding or was getting lazy.

It might be worth trying to clean the port, which can get clogged / gunked up.

Turn the car on(no start), let it sit for about 20 seconds to let the IAC park. Then turn off. Remove the IAC and clean the pintle and the port too.

An IAC that isn't parking correctly can lead to stalling since it controls the idle air.

Edited by Paul93Lotus

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hmm..from the video...it is very strange to see that the ECU does not force your engine to idle at 2000+rpm first.

because my 1993 SE Turbo does this everytime in Cold Start

it will start and brings up the rpm to about 2000....after about 90secs..it will drop back to 1000rpm and stays....

your engine simply dies...there must be some sensor problems

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hmm..from the video...it is very strange to see that the ECU does not force your engine to idle at 2000+rpm first.

because my 1993 SE Turbo does this everytime in Cold Start

it will start and brings up the rpm to about 2000....after about 90secs..it will drop back to 1000rpm and stays....

your engine simply dies...there must be some sensor problems

Yes, mine also....the 2000 rpm jump as always.

Does your car still have the throttle jack installed? Have you checked the vaccum line to the throttle jack to be sure it is in place?

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Sorry for the late reply guys, I installed a new O2 sensor this past week and its still having the same cold start symptoms. I actually thought it had fixed it at first because the car started fine and did not die. I waited till' the next evening when it was cooler to try it again to make sure (it was around 75-80 F outside when I installed the new o2 the day before) and sure enough when I went to crank it she died twice and then started and idled fine. It was about 60 degrees Fahrenheit that evening. In addition, it will only bump the revs up to 2000 if you turn the car off after about 25 seconds, and then restart it. I'm going to try putting some fuel injector cleaner in to see if it makes a difference. Any other ideas? Thanks!

-Erik E.

1994 Esprit S4

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Erik, I had a full two weeks of good starts after replacing the O2 sensor, then yesterday it died. That makes me 6 good starts and 1 stall. If it goes back to its stalling tendency again, I'm just going to take it in to Foreign Toys here in Fort Lauderdale, FL. They should find out what is wrong, and I'll be sure to let you know as we have similar issues...taking my car there will also let me blow my yearly bonus check on an exhaust, electric charge cooler pump, and other go-fast bits :thumbup:

Sorry for the late reply guys, I installed a new O2 sensor this past week and its still having the same cold start symptoms. I actually thought it had fixed it at first because the car started fine and did not die. I waited till' the next evening when it was cooler to try it again to make sure (it was around 75-80 F outside when I installed the new o2 the day before) and sure enough when I went to crank it she died twice and then started and idled fine. It was about 60 degrees Fahrenheit that evening. In addition, it will only bump the revs up to 2000 if you turn the car off after about 25 seconds, and then restart it. I'm going to try putting some fuel injector cleaner in to see if it makes a difference. Any other ideas? Thanks!

-Erik E.

1994 Esprit S4

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Erik,

It makes me a bit sad that you apparently donot read my posts. The O2-sensor is not operating till the engine has been running for at least 1 minute or so !!!!

Any initial cold start problem is not O2-sensor related then !

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

Sorry for the late reply guys, I installed a new O2 sensor this past week and its still having the same cold start symptoms. I actually thought it had fixed it at first because the car started fine and did not die. I waited till' the next evening when it was cooler to try it again to make sure (it was around 75-80 F outside when I installed the new o2 the day before) and sure enough when I went to crank it she died twice and then started and idled fine. It was about 60 degrees Fahrenheit that evening. In addition, it will only bump the revs up to 2000 if you turn the car off after about 25 seconds, and then restart it. I'm going to try putting some fuel injector cleaner in to see if it makes a difference. Any other ideas? Thanks!

-Erik E.

1994 Esprit S4


Marcus

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Erik,

It makes me a bit sad that you apparently donot read my posts. The O2-sensor is not operating till the engine has been running for at least 1 minute or so !!!!

Any initial cold start problem is not O2-sensor related then !

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

Marcus,

I definitely read and appreciate your posts :P!!! I actually went back up just now and found your post on the O2 sensor, I must have missed it! It does look like I completely ignored your advice, I assure you this was not the case though, I just need to pay closer attention ;)!!!! I have also been getting bad gas mileage (as well as a good bit of carbon/soot build up on my back bumper recently), so I figured I would throw a new O2 sensor in. I talked to Jeff at JAE and he was pretty sure that it wouldn't be the cold start problem, but due to the fuel mileage issue we figured it would be worth replacing. I'm not sure if you saw my reply further up, but I did try the injector testing method you recommended and it still cold started after the test.

I wanted to mention that the other day I noticed I will get whiffs of a fuel smell from the passenger side of the engine bay. I can only get whiffs of the fuel smell when the car is running and hot. If I close the hatch I can smell it from under the rear passenger side wheel well. When the engine is cold I can not smell any fuel at all. Perhaps this is related? Any other ideas? Thanks again for all of your help!

-Erik E.

1994 Esprit S4

Edited by Callaway

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Erik, I had a full two weeks of good starts after replacing the O2 sensor, then yesterday it died. That makes me 6 good starts and 1 stall. If it goes back to its stalling tendency again, I'm just going to take it in to Foreign Toys here in Fort Lauderdale, FL. They should find out what is wrong, and I'll be sure to let you know as we have similar issues...taking my car there will also let me blow my yearly bonus check on an exhaust, electric charge cooler pump, and other go-fast bits ;)

Riddle,

I like your thought process, might as well have those extra goodies done while its in :P ! Let me know what happens and I certainly appreciate all of your input, hopefully we can get this problem tracked down!

-Erik E.

1994 Esprit S4

Edited by Callaway

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Hi Erik,

As previously mentioned my SE does something very similar to your S4. Last weekend I thought I'd try not touching the accelerator pedal at all after starting the car for a couple of minutes just to see what happened. It might of been a one off but after the initial start although the idle was a bit lumpy for a while it did settle down after a minute or so and didn't stall. After a couple of minutes I manged to pull away with no problems at all ;) . If you are pressing the accelerator immediately after starting it might be worth giving this a go just to see what happens.

Martyn :P

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I wanted to mention that the other day I noticed I will get whiffs of a fuel smell from the passenger side of the engine bay. I can only get whiffs of the fuel smell when the car is running and hot. If I close the hatch I can smell it from under the rear passenger side wheel well. When the engine is cold I can not smell any fuel at all. Perhaps this is related? Any other ideas? Thanks again for all of your help!

-Erik E.

1994 Esprit S4

Erik, I also get fuel smell, but when the car is off. I notice it in the engine bay, and in the trunk. Well, let's hope one of us figures it out soon! Who ever figures it out first is owed a beer :lol:

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Erik, I also get fuel smell, but when the car is off. I notice it in the engine bay, and in the trunk. Well, let's hope one of us figures it out soon! Who ever figures it out first is owed a beer :lol:

fuel breather hose cracked/worn ?

check LEW

Edited by bzguy

- Nulla tenaci invia est via -

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fuel breather hose cracked/worn ?

check LEW

Also check your fuel tank neck hose clamps(behind the carpeted window panels), and your evaporative emission canister lines.

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fuel breather hose cracked/worn ?

check LEW

Also check your fuel tank neck hose clamps(behind the carpeted window panels), and your evaporative emission canister lines.

As far as the cold start problem, I think it is time to hook up a fuel pressure gauge and check the starting pressure. Maybe your fuel pump or fuel pump relay is giving up the ghost.

Edited by Paul93Lotus

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