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improve crash security on G cars


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So why not use the earlier mentioned thought to fit an full roll cage into an street car, this is legal in UK, right ..?

wasn't there allready an G-Esprit raced in the FIA GT4/5 group in the 80th in a 'private' team ? This one should have an certified roll cage in it, with factory dimensions and mounting points to copy? ..just like the later Stevens/X180 cars

This would allready form an even stronger safety cell for the people inside.

..and for the fibre-construction: there is an note about additional layers of material (in the A-collums for example), written down in one of the books about the Stevens-Esprit production.

Was this required only for US-crash test laws/overroll safety standards of this time and going on, or was it allready part of the basic conception of the Esprit, from the first production series on?

Edited by Günter

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i dunno... i am still worried. i read somewhere, that You should not push the Esprit hard in bigger bends if the glass roof is not fitted, becouse the body twists... and i read here, that roof should support the car that falls upside down from 3meters... i am currently only 4 bolts away from pulling the body off the chassis, on saturday 5 pals will come to help to do this, i hope we will be enough to achieve this, then i will see where a rollcage could be mounted if it is possible at all... the idea to copy a factory rollcage is good, if i will get to see one...

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illustrations related to the X180r rollgage are in the internet, and in some of the older posts in here in this forum. This discusssion is probably as old as the Esprit itself -fact is that there is an (call it torsion or twist) momentum if you simply enter your home driveway in front of your garden house half way square, and only one wheel is in contact with the bumbs for a short time -I can hear thenoise comming from underneath the dashboard even with the slowest possible driving speed, it's just that over the years all the nuts and bolds under the dash (mention there is an mountiung bar fittet under it, that also supports some of the load comming from the doors) come loose slightly. Same is for the bulkhead-plate and the safety -elt fixing points on the rear door support bar.

If this is all tight and you have also inspected the additional plate to support the gear lever opening in the middle of the frame (don't know if this is 'point to point the same' on the early G-cars..) you should have an more solid feling. But still, the chassis conception will mean some momentum of torsion, and I would guess this is part of the driving and suspension characteristics anyway

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At the end of the day there is a big panel of glass in front of your face, anything from a wheel to motorbike to a deer can come through that and kill you regardless. Likewise you might end up being speared by the extra metal supports you add where you would have survived had you not fitted them.

Look at my 993, big chunk of german metal, and consider how much better it would be in a side impact:

ec28_1_b.jpg

Ownership of 20 year old sportscars (plastic or metal) drops your crash safety by a huge margin.

:D

Then there was this SE, the guy walked away, fella called Dictys on pistonheads, the back just stepped out and car went into trees, not fast either...

unitycard.jpg

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Has an Esprit ever actually been rolled over?!? I'm sure it's happened, but does anyone actually know of a specific instance? How do you roll an Esprit?!? :scared:

Tony K. :)

 

Esprit S1s #355H & 454H

Esprit S2.2  #324J

1991 Esprit SE

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Audi RS6, No cutting of the vehicle, the guy actually walked away from it and called the services: Personally I think unless you know what you are doing you could be putting more danger into the car, i.e tubeing to come loose etc. The deformation of the shell is what takes the energy out of an accident.

40aevsh.jpg

Edited by red vtec

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

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Paul, i am sorry for the Porsche, it looks like it was hit by a train...

we had an Audi80 ('84 1.6D) earlier, that ended up similar, my father came off the road at about 80-90km/h, then the car sled sideways and hit a really big tree (about 1m in diameter) with the cars right side and stopped in the ditch. it was probably upside-down at some point too, becouse the whole roof was full with scratches, but he cant remember anything. he and his pal had not scratch from the collusion, my father only cut his hand lightly when crawled out of the wreck. the car looked like a banana, the tree hit the car exactly at the "B" pillar, the underside of that pillar went about 40cm-s inward. the root did not collide. maybe they had luck, but the car was in really good shape, despite it was 13 years old then.

he then started the engine and drove it 200kms home (was very windy, bacouse the front and rear windscreen were gone)

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Has an Esprit ever actually been rolled over?!? I'm sure it's happened, but does anyone actually know of a specific instance? How do you roll an Esprit?!? :scared:

Jonathan (aka Flipper!) rolled his V8, he was completely unharmed and the car was rebuilt.

ihatemyselfandiwanttodie1.jpg

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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He did manage to roll it onto a soft section of shrubbery mainly made up of marshmallow and cotton wool...

:D

Like i say, the world of lightweight cars made of thin metal or plastic panels and capable of speeds over 150mph...

...is a world where crash safety is not a premium issue, right?

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The safety standards of the modern car are really incredible nowadays. Compared to an old car like the Esprit, a modern car (even a smartfortwo!!) will easily outperform a G-Esprit in almost every regard. The roof structure has improved considerably with effective closed loops running around the perimeter (essentially providing a rudimentary roll cage), plus there are obvious things like ABS, active restraints and airbgs. The safety cells are tuned with hundreds of hours of virtual crash analysis not to mention lots of lab time and actual impast testing. Even the plastic bumpers have a minimum radius now of 3 mm for the purpose of pedestrian impact!! The details are mind boggling. It has to be said that the Esprit would have had none of this thrown at it. I suspect any crash resistance would be through some minor testing and designed by engineers with a good eye for what looks good and what looks bad. A little luck thrown into the mix as well.

My advice would be to get on with it you big girls blouse and just drive it. :P Avoid trees and stupid people and you will be fine. :)

Edited by nic996

The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit - Richard Pryor -1971

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On the topic of crashes that people (thankfully) survived, this old S-Class was T-boned by a Toyota Land Cruiser at over 50mph. All four occupants were uninjured. I have a friend who services old Mercedes, and he sourced this car for a customer to give to his teenage son. The teenage son and his three friends were the ones in the car when the accident happened. The dad had wanted a safe car for his son. Imagine how relieved Dad felt. I think he went and bought another S-Class for his son. There are some things you can't put a price on. :)

17862_283548131731_530116731_3574772_6362781_n.jpg

Tony K. :)

 

Esprit S1s #355H & 454H

Esprit S2.2  #324J

1991 Esprit SE

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we now pulled the body off the chassis on saturday... and guess what, i got surprised again :D i thought the metal bits inside the "A" pillar which the doors are bolted to are somehow bolted/welded to the chassis, but no and nor the metal piece at the back of the seat in the engine compartment which the seatbelts are bolted to.

i know i cant turn the Esprit into an S-class Mercedes regarding crash security, but i will try my best to improve it as much as i can.

i will open a topic in the restoration section for this car and keep you updated, as soon as i begin to put the car together. currently i will focus on my diesel-LPG project to get my quattro out of the garage, so i will have some space for the Esprit during the winter...

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The Esprit is designed with a flat chassis and a shell that sits on top, There is no metal structure in the shell, Do you have a parts book? as this clearly shows the configuration.

Why don't you email the Factory and ask them about the rollover protection? I'm sure its already structully strong. Unless you are going to construct a roll cage that will impeed the passanger compartment space, and also increasing the chances of head injuries etc I do not see how you are going to improve it. You may well be wasting your time and money.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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i dont have a parts book, but it is not necessary to me anymore, as the car is fully taken apart to the last bolt... what remained looks pretty straightforward to me. writing to the factory wont make sense, what will they reply? they wont give me advice on a rollcage, maybe they will admit that the Esprit isnt designed for big safety and i shall buy another car. :)

someone said, that by adding a rollcage i will only add weight and loose metal... the loose metal is already inside the car by factory: the first crossbeam, that holds the speedo and etc and the rear crossbeam, that holds the seatbelt housing.

i will study the body further and consult local rallye car builders regarding the rollcage. maybe i will add some kevlar reinforcement inside the roof, that could be done relative easily. or maybe i will end up doing nothing to it at all, just sit in it and hope for the best :D

regarding the two crossbeams mentioned above, they are practiculary glued onto the fibreglass body, so the two heavy metal plates inside the doors does not seem to have much use to me either.

Edited by LionSGI
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Seems a total waste of time to me, driving cars is risky - end of.

But if you want to spunk your cash making an old car heavier fill you boots.

I still don't see how you will quantify the improvment and put a value on it:

Surely glass windows are dangerous, how about an armoured windscreen?

Petrol explodes and I might get a puncture, how about runflat tyres and a diesel engine?

In this risk adverse world we live in any opportunity for fun will soon be removed in the name of safety, enjoy fun while you can.

A few of us will undoubtedly end up upside-down in a field full of cows and on fire - oh well - I'll just hope it's not me.

Rich

Edited by Kimbers

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Rich. You need to change your picture. I have deleted the link as it just says you stole the piccy. Guess it was copyrighted.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

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