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My Kids Teachers are Going on Strike


Kimbers

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And they have sent me a letter telling me that I need to be home or organise child care for the 30th. As you can imagine this has gone down well with me and has involved a call to a certain headmistress starting "You want me to what?"

Sorry to all my teacher friends on here but, If it was Nurses and Policemen I could understand, they do a really tough job on only 20 days holiday a year, with poor pay and now a pension similar to the private sector. But, teachers? really? Must be hard surviving on only 70-80 days holiday, with better pay than a Nurse, less danger than a Policeman and a pension nearly twice mine!! Maybe its time Teachers pay for us to have a day off to be at home to look after the kids THEY should be teaching!

What would they say if all the nurses with kids have to take the time off to look after their kids and one of their family members dies because theres no nurses to look after them? It wouldn't happen because like all the other nurses, my wife has had to sort and pay for childcare, because she cares about her job and the people it effects!

As you can imagine. I'm very angry.

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In my view most Teachers are lazy on top of being useless, Jerry Glazier who is the NUT rep was one of mine, he was a cock back then and still is. They cannot fathom that the people they are annoying with this action are the poor sods paying for there cozy lifestyle.

Policemen are not exactly on the breadline, I know a few and they are doing very nicely, why should they retire at 55? why can't they do back room duties from that age?. Why should Public sector not have the same pension as private sector?

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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I think people who do a job like a Policeman or a Nurse, saving lives, looking after us, should be better rewarded and if this includes a better pension then all well and good. I have several Policeman I am proud of calling mates and not one of them goes a year without being assualted, and this includes broken bones.

My friend who's a Teacher earns nearly £10k more than my wife, whos a Staff nurse, yet gets the same pension (if not better) and has 12 weeks minimum off a year!

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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In my view, most Teachers are extremely hard working, very consientious and pationately care about their job and how it impacts on the pupils they teach. It is in no doubt a hard job.

That being said, there isn't such a thing as an easy job (is there??) nowadays. Any job comes with certain responsibilities and the hardships and presures that actually being in employment brings. It s not a holiday camp. It is a job, that they get remunerated already for all the above hardships.

Strike! Don't make me laugh. Get on and do the job you were employed to do the job in the first place. Anybody who holds the 'Strike' card up that, then impacts directly on me or my family will lose my support immediately .

Paid Holidays and a Pension scheme? What are they please?

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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But then under that reasoning you must say an Infantry solider is worth a lot, lot more as they really do put there lives on the line. I have friends in the Marines and in the Army and they are not earning a fortune at infantry level.

Most Coppers I know are sitting very pretty, good overtime etc

I agree Nurses should be paid more, I agree Soliders should be paid more and looked after better. As for teachers. I don't give them the time of day.

Still don't see why Public sector pension should be better than Private sector.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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Ask your self what would happen if you went on strike? I would more than likely get sacked or my job made so horrible I would want to leave.

I'd fire the lot of them. Education is so important that teachers should not be allowed to go on strike.

And my sister is Head Mistress in a school. Massive salary, long holidays great pension and she still moans about "school". Get a job in industry, any industry and join the real world.

I have no sympathy with them.

Though this be madness yet there is method in it ( Polonius in William Shakespeare's Hamlet)

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Trouble with teacher bashers is invariably they've never been teachers. Everyone thinks that because they went to school they're some sort of expert. They see a teacher, or teachers from 9am to 3pm and think that's all the job involves. Or maybe they watch "Teachers" and see the staff pull into the carpark just as the bell goes and then head straight for the pub at 3. What bollocks.

My career path has involved the motor trade, Then 14 years high school teaching, then 18 years in local government. Can honestly say that teaching, while professionally rewarding, was by far the hardest job of all. Long hours preparing and marking, huge amount of stress, underpaid in comparison to my colleagues in other professions. And always, always fair game for any government, whatever political hue, when budgetary belts needed to be tightened. Along with nurses, police and other "giving" professions, taking industrial action to improve conditions was and is always portrayed as "irresponsible", even though, for teachers, the disputes are not just about salaries, they're about resources, class sizes and conditions not only for teachers but for your kids.

Hope that might provide some balance from someone who's been on both sides.

Oops shouldn't have said I'm in Local Government....I mean, you all pay rates......*(sigh)*

Edited by robertverhey
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In my view, most Teachers are extremely hard working, very consientious and pationately care about their job and how it impacts on the pupils they teach. It is in no doubt a hard job

Bang on mate. Vicki gave up teaching despite it being what she wanted to do.

Kimbers, i have heard you moan about the NHS (as well as everything else in the English speaking world), but while you angrily wait for your information bypass operation...

Every weekend was marking A Level work, you can't speed through it, it's someone's future, you have to read the thousands of words written by hundreds of pupils and grade them. Of course you could always do this in one of the many 'free periods' you have during the school day, but they are all spent covering other lessons, very often of subjects you don't even teach. In the end it's all done during half terms and in the summer.

What's half the weekends of the year, working, unpaid? 50 days? Then all the half terms that everyone slags you off for having as holiday? another 20 days or so working? Then the days in the summer too? Yet again the truth does not fit into the blinkered vision, where do you go from here and not look dumb?

It's your right to be Naive Kimbers, I'm naive about many things myself, I'm just not about to start a thread on them as i'd look like an absolute cretin.

Once again you make visiting the forum an absolute joy mate!!!!

harhar.gif

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+1 to what Robert and Paul said.

My wife was a teacher. I was glad when she got out of it and we could have a life. There was so much for her to do after hours together with the emotional drain of "battling" little s... every day.

And when push came to shove there was little back up for teachers as everybody wants to be so politically correct and develop highly considered approaches to the discipline problems. Meanwhile the smart ar... know how to stay one step ahead and continue running amok.

It's also good how we can take holidays outside of peak periods to escape the crowds, kids and inflated peak-time resort charges.

Edited by DanR

DanR

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Well said!

Those who think that teaching is so easy with long holidays - why don't you do it then? Got a degree? then a one year PGCE will get you in. If not then a 3 year degree course followed by the one year will get you there.

I'm sorry Ian - massive salary? Given that the headteacher is effectively the CEO of the school how does the salary now compare to a CEO?

Leaving aside heads etc the top of the main teachers scale is just over £31,000, post threshold just over £36,000 and advanced skills teachers nearly £57,000.

The maximum for a headteacher is just over £105,000 and that would have to be a very large school. Headteachers pay scales are specified by the size of the school determined by pupil numbers.

The are also additional payments that can be made (TLRs) for taking on substantial additional responsibility.

Now comparing this to industry is difficult as very few publish their salary scales - anyone care to publish their scales???

But as this is a car site I did a quick search on the motor trade and found that the average salary in car dealerships is £45,000 with one CEO/managing director earning £222,000.

Excluding the CEOs from the calculation the average becomes £30,000 (compared to the UK average of £26,000). CEO/dealership principal average is £91,000

Sources TDA, motortrader

If you want to see where you fit in the full list (2010, over 400 jobs) then here is the link.

The highest teaching related job is Higher Education blush.png (26th) below train drivers, several health professional groups and senior police officers. Secondary education professionals come way down the list.

Dave - 2000 Sport 350
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I have several Policeman I am proud of calling mates and not one of them goes a year without being assualted, and this includes broken bones.

My mum is a teaching assistant in a PRU (more minimum wage than teachers salary but still in the education environment) she also gets assaulted on a regular basis but doesn't get a bonus compensation claim each time! A police officer friend of ours tripped over chasing a criminal and managed to claim somewhere just over £6k for the broken wrist suffered.

Personally I rarely think strike action is the most suitable course of action but I also know how hard teachers and other education staff work and to jump on the teacher bashing band wagon without having walked a mile in the shoes of the person you're having a go at is not cool.

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I think the whole picture has not being looked at in this thread.

The reason for the strike on the 30th of November is over pensions, not just teachers but all public sector workers which included (a small sample from across the country) workers in Mersey Tunnels, Greater Manchester Transport, Glasgow city council, Scottish Water, West Midlands Police Authority, Northern Ireland bus services, Cardiff buses, the British Film Institute, the British Museum , South Yorkshire Police, the NHS, MOD ect ect.

Over 12 million people in all!

In my line of work, a worker in the outside industry is earning £5k+ more a year minimum for similar work, but the 'benefit' of flexy time and a decent pension at the end of time is what keeps people from leaving.

with the proposed alterations, I would have to pay out £65 a month in pension {50% increase), but the payout would be 50% less AND the retirement age will be later 70 instead of 65 iirc

pensions used to be calculated on final salary (last 3 years) but early this year it was quietly changed to the average of ones salary over the working career, this already equates to an average of a 15% loss of pension!

The public sector in the NHS, MOD, teachers and everyone else are saying ''Enough Is Enough!!!!''

We know at where I work, If we do not go out, the next thing to go would be our flexy time and 9 day fortnight, because they know we would not fight for them if we could not be bothered to fight for something as hard hitting as the pension!

I wish my salary was as high as the national average! when I told a Canadian friend how much I was on, he almost spat out his coffee and exclaimed 'How the F##k do you live on that!'

The teachers are not going on strike for just themselves, This is a country wide strike to show the government we are no longer taking it lying down.

Viva la revolution ph34r.png

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My wife is currently pursuing a teaching credential, primarily aimed at "special needs" education for children with "issues." I have watched her work her heiny off in meeting the requirements to practice the craft. Her university degree was but a starting point for what is now expected of her, program after program, expenditure after expenditure. In addition to taking the required courses, she works (by choice) as a "substitute teacher" at all levels, from kindergarten through high school level. Some of her classrooms are for "normal" kids, but most are for "challenged" students---many of whom are actually quite bright, but "with an attitude." Based on conversations with her, it is indeed "hard work," and can be very draining. Still, she rarely gripes about it and continues to give it her all. Her pay for substitute teaching, which of course is considered "part time" employment, even though she fills in for the "real" teacher for the same number of hours, is not especially stellar. One does not enter the teaching field to get rich, I assure you. It is a calling, and those called to it seem to be driven by a sense of personal accomplishment for having improved the lives of others.

When she completes the latest (fee based) program requirement, her "reward" is to teach full time for three months without pay of any kind. There will be no breaks, and student work brought home for grading and analysis, and the preparation for each day's lesson(s) will consume nights and weekends, just as it does for most "real" teachers.

And here's the best part: If and when she completes all the requirments and fills all the legal squares, she will have the "privilege" of competing with all the other hard working aspirants for nonexistent jobs, at depressingly low pay. But then, she's (like most teachers) not in it for the money.

In a perfect world teachers would have salaries well above average. As the bumper sticker reads, "If you can read this, thank a teacher."

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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I am unsure if this thread is about who deserves what, or whether you agree with strike action or not.

In truth, all of the above chosen occupations deserve more income. This is the real world though and if people want more, things have to be paid for by somebody. Even if benefits don't change, costs do. Final Salary Pension Schemes were even expensive to run 30 years go, and are now virtually extinct. (certainly no new schemes ever set up) I've never heard any young inividual pick their chosen career based upon whether they were to be in a Final Salary or Money Purchase scheme - they chose it because of the job. Most Occupational pension schemes are Money Purchase nowadays because for the simple reason, you get back what you put in.

Yes, I agree with greater pay/benefits (that also includes benefits being maintained) but no I do not agree with strike action especially when I hear 'strikers' in all occupations say "we are sorry" "don't want to do it" or "last resort" or "no option". I don't believe it.

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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I heard a rumour that teachers have children too and that they might be affected by their parents action; likewise anyone who goes on strike. The big picture is that 50 % of the population own 7% of the wealth in the UK . I therefore do not think it unreasonable for people to demand a bigger slice of the pie, and that teachers will always be more useful to a coherent society than PR consultants, celebrities, archbishops etc.

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Sorry Paul C, but the Teachers (and I know a lot) are doing very little in there large amounts of holiday time, well apart from going on holiday, or moonlighting

A headteacher is not a CEO, they are a senior manager at the most, as they are backed up by the education authority. And most CEO's in the Public sector are vastly overpaid, but that is another discussion.

How the hell do they think people get into other professions? they graft, they put in the hours in study, they make sacrafices. If they don't like it go do something else. (if they will have you).

As I said before Jerry Glazier (NUT) was one of my teachers, he was always a milatant bastard, and a bloddy useless teacher and he is representing them!

Maybe the future is making miniture violins for the poor loves? Or ear plugs so I don't have to listen to them whine anymore.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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I don't understand Paul C.

Kimbers has an opinion on a topic so he gets on here and vents about it. He's allowed to.

So are you.

There are lots of other topics on here that you can read. The title gives you an idea what it's about.

If you don't want to read it, don't.

If you do, don't start on someone as if it's their fault you don't enjoy it here.

If you don't enjoy it, why do I see you popping up in these sort of posts having a crack at the original poster.

Start a topic that amuses you. You have the power. smile.png

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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If teachers do such a good job and think they can go on strike for whatever reason ( pension rights or any other matter) how do they explain that some of the kids we get sent for interview to be apprentices can hardly read or write and have no basic manners? One even didn't know what to do when offered a hand to shake when he was introduced to another member of our company. And we are getting some from Cambridge, supposedly one of the areas in the UK where school standards and exam results are meant to be way above average?

Easy to make sweeping generalisations though isn't it? Anyway I have to confess to a prejudice which I ought to overcome. I mentioned my sister being a Head Mistress. I have never liked her even when we were kids. Now she behaves like a cross between Atilla the Hun and Boadecia with permanent PMT.

Rant over...

Though this be madness yet there is method in it ( Polonius in William Shakespeare's Hamlet)

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In defense of Paul C., every "debate" needs a gadfly, if for no other reason than to stimulate further discussion and to push out the boundaries that encompass it. Paul has been here long enough to have a close personal relationship with many of this forum's longest running participants, including Kimbers. Such familiarity sometimes permits a more aggressive response than other participants feel comfortable with, but close acquaintances have a greater freedom to engage in what may appear to some as "heated discussions," when in fact things are not as mean spirited as they might first appear. One does not have to agree with the techniques employed on occasion by our friend who purchased a Porsche and went over to the Dark Sideharhar.gif , but I for one have consistently found his input to be sufficiently entertaining (and often deeply thoughtful) to grant him "license" to keep people's feet to the fire.

If teachers do such a good job and think they can go on strike for whatever reason ( pension rights or any other matter) how do they explain that some of the kids we get sent for interview to be apprentices can hardly read or write and have no basic manners? One even didn't know what to do when offered a hand to shake when he was introduced to another member of our company. And we are getting some from Cambridge, supposedly one of the areas in the UK where school standards and exam results are meant to be way above average?

Easy to make sweeping generalisations though isn't it? Anyway I have to confess to a prejudice which I ought to overcome. I mentioned my sister being a Head Mistress. I have never liked her even when we were kids. Now she behaves like a cross between Atilla the Hun and Boadecia with permanent PMT.

Rant over...

In a nutshell, Ian, you can only work with the "raw material" that a student's parents (or lack of them!) provide you with. It is not a teacher's responsibility to instill basic behavioral standards in the minds of their charges. They (the teachers) most certainly must strive to maintain order and decorum within their classrooms, lest their primary job of increasing knowledge be jeopardized. But expecting them to teach handshake methodologies to "untrained" neophytes is to place blame on the wrong person, though I expect that more than one teacher has, in fact, taken the time to do just that, along with the simultaneously giving crash courses on basic manners.

As far as some students not performing up to job applicant expectations with regard to reading and writing, that shortcoming must surely be at least partially attributable to individual applicants' mental limitations. Not everyone can breeze through class and depart the institution as the hoped for polished product a future employer understandably desires. A teacher works with the "bell curve" demographic handed to her. Bringing the "wrong side" of the curve towards the peak area is precisely the challenge they are expected to meet, but it's not a given that they can pull it off.

And yes, some (teachers, that is) are signicantly better at it than others, and for that we should all give thanks.smile.png

In the meantime, go give your sister a hug for me.laugh.png

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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A headteacher is not a CEO, they are a senior manager at the most, as they are backed up by the education authority. And most CEO's in the Public sector are vastly overpaid, but that is another discussion.

Sorry that shows a lack of understanding of the modern education system. The LA now has very little to do with schools. Schools are becoming more autonomous.

They run their own budget and can buy their services from whoever they like. Most do still use the authority for things like HR but if you think that the level of support from the LA is what it was 10 years ago you are wrong.

The headteacher could be ultimately responsible for 1600 people in a large school. They have all the same responsibility as a CEO regarding employment law, health and safety etc PLUS the majority of people they are responsible for are under 18 and hence adds etc requirements - e.g. child safety.

The headteacher is ultimately responsible to the school governors. The LA cannot sack a headteacher only the governing body can. The LA can advise the governors that they perhaps should do something but ultimately it is their decision.

The true analogy to business is that the governors are the board of directors (of which the headteacher is one) and the head is the CEO - running the operation day to day.

On a different note - how many people are in jobs that if they went on strike, anyone would notice? People are only up in arms because when teachers strike it has an effect, surely this means they are doing a valuable job and is the whole point of a strike.

Second different note - How many people are in jobs where if you work extra time you get paid? Teachers get the salary shown above and that's it - there is no concept of overtime.

Dave - 2000 Sport 350
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Kimbers

My wife has just made a very generous offer for you to come and spend a day with her at work.

You too can have your hands down a toilet, wipe s**t of the walls, be verbally abused by parents. She will meet you at 7:30am at school and you will be there until around 6pm when you can leave (assuming all pupils have been collected).

Dave - 2000 Sport 350
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I think that Teachers do a good job, a bloody hard job, with one hand tied behind their backs these days with the lack of discipline options available , a lack of parental support in many cases and with unrealistic expectations of parents and government bodies expecting all kids to be bright and achieve lots of qualifications. But this is a diversion form the issue at hand.

The government cant afford to give the pensions of yesteryear to todays civil servant type jobs without either raising taxes or cutting spending elsewhere. An aging population is being paid for by an ever dwindling working population. Something has to change. I have yet to see a balanced argument of keeping the pension rights as they are now and how they will be paid for.

I work in a wealthy high tech private sector industry and final salary schemes have gone because the economics just arent sustainable any more. Unfortunately this reality is has now arrived at the civil sector.

The world has changed,15-20 years of western overspend - just look at the combined private and government debt totals has fewked up the world economy. Shit we are spending loads keeping the financial sector afloat to prevent financial Armageddon instead of investing in people and services we rely on.

50 million people in the EU zone (27 countries) dont have a job. THATS WORSE THAN THE PENSION DEAL ON OFFER

78 million are in or are at risk of poverty in the EU. THATS WORSE THAN THE PENSION DEAL ON OFFER

Relative poverty is where some people's way of life and income is so much worse than the general standard of living in the country or region in which they live that they struggle to live a normal life and to participate in ordinary economic, social and cultural activities.

So when you think about it, striking about retaining unsustainable Pension rights in the uk seems to me to be selfish at best when you consider how many other human beings have a far shittier life than you do. Yes its all relative but the world has changed .

Deal with it

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.

50 million people in the EU zone (27 countries) dont have a job.

Wow, I don't feel so alone now!

Maybe the 50 million would like the chance to even consider going on strike!

Dave.

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