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simon a-b

engine gearbox combos

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Hi all,

I'm ultimately going to do an engine swap, and have been pondering what to go for from before I bought my S3. I had I thought settled on a north south layout as comes in the car normally, but in conversation at work the other day we started discussng an east west option.

It came from talking about the LS4, the current favourite engine option under consideration, which is sold in the US in a front drive package. This only has an auto gearbox, but if you look a little further afield there are some potential options.

Before I get shot down too much I'm just putting it out there... I know Hilly's Audi combo is working well. Before our discussion I had pretty much settled on an LS4/citroen gearbox with Quaife LSD combo. I do have a residual concern about the strength of the citroen gearbox but conversely it would be good to avoid having to re-engineer the rear brakes... decisions decisions.

Anyway, do any of you know any inherent issues with an east west configuration or information about the choice? Is the evora an east west configuration? That motor has a six speed fitted which could be an option. I'm guessing it is the same gearbox as fitted to various toyotas, perhaps with different internals.

What got me started thinking was that in an engine swap you have to engineer various mounts anyway; and looking at the current engine/gearbox from above the output from the gearbox doesn't like up perfectly with the wheel centres; the drive shafts are angled forwards from the gearbox, so the engine/box combo is slightly longer to the driveshafts than would be optimal. I'm concerned that adding an adapter plate to mate the citroen box to anything will add length, which is at a premium already.

I think I remember in Hilly's thread that he was able to bring it all a bit better in line when he fitted the Audi as it is such a compact motor. Since he was fitting a different box that would have been possible in making the new gearbox mounts.

An east west package from a front drive car would bring the motor further back, so affecting the weight balance, but would not have the gearbox (or much of it) hanging behind the axle line so it may not affect things too much; there's always the battery to relocate if I felt that the balance was being thrown off too much.

This option would of course result in me having to sort the rear brakes anyway!

Opinions welcome... ramble over!

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There are some wonderful transverse engines you could look at that will fit. Maybe one of the sub 1000cc DOHC turbo Diahatsu or Smart engines would be the go. tongue.png

In all seriousness the chassis is too narrow without major mods to fit a larger capacity motor across the frame. I think you're stuck with the traditional longitudinal configurations.


DanR

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Ha, that would be an economical way to go! I'm sure that's what I'll end up with too, just wanted to put it out there for comment... I did wonder if all east west setups have unequal length driveshafts, which is probably a negative...

cheers,

simon

Edited by simon a-b

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I still am keen on Lexus v8 (superlight ) and Audi A series gearbox ....similar layout loads of power and light!


Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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The original Lotus 907/910 etc is quite a long engine, so it should be possible to find another engine that can be installed a little bit further forwards. Then it depends on exactely where on the trans the driveshafts exits. Not sure about the difference between a Citroen / Renault / Audi trans.

One way to get through the brake issue is to get hub carriers and arms from a newer Esprit, where the brakes are allready placed within the wheels. It's a bolt on job, but may not be cost effective. My car came without anything of this so since I had to buy it any way I went for the S4/V8 setup

Geir

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Please check this thread http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f164/esprit-engine-transplants-106570/

Quite a few interesting ideas, of which, this compact, yet powerful Hartley H1 V8 engine + ZF box would be my choice,you go to http://www.zf.com/ and http://www.rbttrans.com/

This combination is little bit pricey,though.

http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm

The H1 V8 is a 2.8 (or new 3.0!) liter 32 valve V8 which weighs less than most 4 cylinder engines and is about the same size. The engine is ideally suited for track cars and other lightweight race or recreational vehicles which have been limited to 4 cylinder engines for size and weight reasons.

200lbs-400HP and twin turbocharged engine delivers 600HP, 800HP, check here http://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/index.php?page=holeshot-hartley-v8

If you choose less exotic engine, you may use UN1-027 with v. elegant inboard brakes conversion, Jan Hoel's style http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=179165288761382&set=pu.178516808826230&type=1&theater

Edited by MrDangerUS

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You forgot to mention the 1000BHP Stage 3 option! Definitely a little too pricey for me, and in all honesty I can settle for a little less power too!

I'm thinking of just updating the 910 engine, or dropping in a newer 910s, which would be my preference, to keep life easier. The question for me though is how much can the Citroen box with Quaife LSD handle, or is it better to go for a Renault UN1, in which case do a inboard conversion for the box or convert to outboard with arms from a newer Esprit.

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Everything depends on how you intend to use the car...

C35 may take 250-300 providing you cryogenically treat CWP, install LSD and refrain from dropping the clutch. UN1 can take up to 400Nm, but has its weak spot-the output shaft. To bullet-proof it you'll need to install the Holloway shaft kit (3-4K dollars).

I don't know who's using these, perhaps the new Huarya in automated form.

http://www.xtrac.com/pdfs/1007%20-%20SUPERCAR%20TRANSVERSE%20SYNCHROMESH%20GEARBOX.pdf

Here's what the Zondas and the first Koennigseggs used:

http://www.cimaingranaggi.it/en/gt_road.html

)

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Awesome, Xtrac UK is about 2 miles from me! I think UN1 will be my preferred choice if I stick with a 910 engine, though looking around now I'm starting to wonder wether I should just forget that idea and go down the V8 route!

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I'm in the process of putting a 2.0 L ecotec LSJ supercharged engine in. From the factory it was 205hp w/ 205 ft pounds of torque. This are modified by chevy stage 1 and 2 accessories, which essentially go to a smaller pulley for the supercharger (plus larger injectors). People get about 250 hp with this. I went further and got the larger TVS supercharger...so probably something like 270 hp or so.

This is going into a 1986 turbo Esprit that had an engine fire.

The bellhousing for the citroen sm had a better fit....so I ended up using the Citroen transaxle, instead of the lotus. Did a front mount engine plate as a cradle to bolt the engine to the chassis. Required no chassis modifications and the engine and transaxle sit nice and low (I did need to swap the oil pan for a latter year turbo LNF motor, in order to clear the frame crossmember).

The engine looks like it belongs in the car

I have rebuilt the transaxzle with cyro and RMS finished gears and quaife LSD

Next step is to figure out how to run the engine management

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N* in 78 Esprit! Cool!

He uses a modified Northstar in his 78 Esprit with Citroen (!) box : http://s599. photobu...73/benslotus/ #!

If you want V8...How about fitting the NorthStar engine?

Edited by MrDangerUS

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My concern with the Citroen is torque.... that's what kills boxes.. not horsepower.. so I would be interested to know the longevity of some of these builds...


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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N* in 78 Esprit! Cool!

He uses a modified Northstar in his 78 Esprit with Citroen (!) box : http://s599. photobu...73/benslotus/ #!

If you want V8...How about fitting the NorthStar engine?

any idea how to get in touch with this guy? I'd love to know how the citroen has coped...

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I'm in the process of putting a 2.0 L Ecotec LSJ supercharged engine in. From the factory it was 205hp w/ 205 ft pounds of torque. This are modified by chevy stage 1 and 2 accessories, which essentially go to a smaller pulley for the supercharger (plus larger injectors). People get about 250 hp with this. I went further and got the larger TVS supercharger...so probably something like 270 hp or so.

This is going into a 1986 turbo Esprit that had an engine fire.

The bellhousing for the citroen sm had a better fit....so I ended up using the Citroen transaxle, instead of the lotus. Did a front mount engine plate as a cradle to bolt the engine to the chassis. Required no chassis modifications and the engine and transaxle sit nice and low (I did need to swap the oil pan for a latter year turbo LNF motor, in order to clear the frame cross member).

The engine looks like it belongs in the car

I have rebuilt the trans axzle with cyro and RMS finished gears and quaife LSD

Next step is to figure out how to run the engine management

Dean,

It's been a while... How is your car?

This is a fab project!

I'd like to know more about what you did to the C-35.

Did you use the stock clutch?

Do you have any pictures?

BR

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Hi all, I was surprised to see this thread pop up again, so I thought I'd throw in the current favourite... the ford ecoboost 3.5l v6... now to be found in the f150 ute/pickup. 

ford racing is now/soon to be selling it as a crate engine, I'll probably not go that way as it costs too much but it does mean that they will almost certainly be selling standalone engine management for it in the near future.  it's a twin turbo direct injection motor so sorting engine management would otherwise be a pretty big issue.  being a v6 it will be a bit shorter than the 8s, giving more room for an adapter plate to an audi transaxle... I'll pick up a low kms one from a breaker when I'm ready to go. 

cheers,

simon

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